Felicity

Wouldn't the totipotent call that is known as the human zygote have all the "fixins' for a soul, then? It's the same argument as those who point to cognitive development as being some kind of "personhood" marker--only a different "target." Developmental markers are developmental markers--and all are subjective values determining the "worth" of a human organism based on the intellectual whim of those who have power over those human organisms. It's a "might makes right" mentality.

__________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
While I thought that I was learning how to live, I have been learning how to die. ~*Leonardo Da Vinci*~

tecoyah

I don't think these two criteria have much in common at all. A soul is undefined and subject to individual belief, Human development is biological fact. A soul has connotations of spirituality which is also different for each person, Human development has an established growth pattern that can be easily verified.

If we base this "person hood" on the soul, we will automatically and perpetually have disagreement. If it is based on Biology, we at least have established facts to use for consensus.

__________________
Self-Banned

Dragonfly

So, if you define a specific time as to when a fetus becomes a baby, you then have to define what the punishment might be for anyone who destroys that baby.

If it's murder to kill a child one month after birth, and you define that one month before birth there is legally no difference between the two human lives in question, the punishment should be the same right?

If you call abortion murder, do you then propose that anyone who aborts a child is a murderer? Is the woman who has an abortion guilty of murder?
And would her punishment for having an abortion be life in prison, or even possibly the death penalty?

Check out how far ahead these pro-lifers have thought.

<-- click it

Marilyn Monroe

Many times till age 30 and even beyond. They may be getting by to a point, but may not be completely self-reliant, so technically they are still "babies"

__________________
"It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

Arcana XV

A baby is a baby when it's born. Before that, it's a fetus.

Which is not to say that this fetus should not have any legal rights as a "human being" or "person" at some point before birth. At what point, however, I do not know. Personally, I would say somewhere in the last trimester or whenever a premie can survive on its own without extensive medical assistance.

__________________
"Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

The silenced majority

The real question is: when does a fetus become an actual human being, (I mean down to the exact second - physiological indicators that can clearly be defined & determined) so that we as a people wpold be able to know and have a responsibility to protect that person's life?

That's the real question.

Reverend_Hellh0und

I agree that it is a question of science that the pro-abortion crowd tends to ignore.

__________________
كافر
Never forget those who died.
Never forget those who killed them.

tecoyah

First off, I am unaware of a Pro-Abortion crowd. (and I doubt you are either) It's always fun to watch people resort to veiled insult when trying to debate.

Secondly, the people debating here have been using science all along, and likely will continue to do so regardless of your pointless input, and its obvious attempt to derail debate.

I think many would prefer that you deny the urge to type if that is all you bring to the table.

Reverend_Hellh0und

If you are pro-choice you are pro-abortion. sugar coating the facts in a softer newspeak term means nothing.

Really? Tell me if we are unsure as to when it becomes a "human life" aren't the pro-choice/pro-abortion crowd terminating something that is not "a life" based on faith? 35% polled think that life begins at conception, care to scientifically tackle that one?





How about you stop whining or go pound sand?


My posts are topical and opinionated. If you don't like em the problem is yours not mine. I insulted no one.

Lachean

The cells involved in the biological process of birth are "alive" even before conception.

__________________
"The original, and still the best!" - Grifter