US Military Accused of Harboring Fundamentalists

Lachean · 02-15-08, 02:59 PM

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US military accused of harboring fundamentalism

Since his last combat deployment in Iraq, Jeremy Hall has had a rough time, getting shoved and threatened by his fellow soldiers. The trouble started there when he would not pray in the mess hall.

"A senior ranking staff sergeant told me to leave and sit somewhere else because I refused to pray," Hall, a 23-year-old US army specialist, told AFP.

Later, Hall was confronted by a major for holding an authorized meeting of "atheists and freethinkers" on his base. The officer threatened to discipline him and block his re-enlistment.

"He said: 'You guys are being a problem and problems can be removed,'" Hall said. "He was yelling at us and stuff and at the very end he says, 'I really love you guys, I want you to see the light.'"

Now Hall is suing the major and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, accusing them of breaching his constitutional rights. A campaign group, the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, is waiting for the Pentagon to respond to a lawsuit filed in a Kansas federal court on Hall's behalf.

It alleges a "pernicious pattern and practice" of infringement of religious liberties in the military.

The group's founder, former Air Force lawyer Mikey Weinstein, said he has documented 6,800 testimonies by military personnel -- nearly all of them Christians -- of sometimes punitive or humiliating attempts to make them accept a fundamentalist evangelical interpretation of Christianity.

"I am at war with those people who would create a fundamentalist Christian theocracy in the technologically most lethal organization ever created by our species, which is the United States armed forces," he said.

He plans to add extra charges and possibly other lawsuits this month.

"It violates title seven of the US code for an employer to push their Biblical world view on an employee," he said. "But it's a trillion times worse when that is not just your shift manager at Starbucks but that is your military superior."

He singles out one of the major Christian groups in the military, the Officers Christian Fellowship (OCF).

The group represents 15,000 US military personnel around the world, according to its director, retired Air Force general Bruce Fister.

"It is not the position of OCF to try and coerce people to believe what we believe," Fister told AFP.

OCF's aim, as stated on its website, is to achieve "a spiritually transformed military, with ambassadors for Christ in uniform, empowered by the Holy Spirit."

It professes belief in "the eternal blessedness of the saved; and the everlasting, conscious punishment of the lost."

Fister emphasized the group's work to support families of soldiers deployed in the "global war on terror."

"People make mistakes. There's probably been some instances where people have wrongly spoken," he added. "We'd like them not to, but that's life."

"Our checks within our equal opportunity channels identified fewer than 100 formal complaints over a two-year period," said Pentagon spokeswoman Eileen Lainez.

Army spokesman Paul Boyce told AFP: "The Army places a high value on the rights of its soldiers to observe tenets of their respective religious faiths."

The MRFF's constitutional complaint "is a matter of the courts system to address and resolve," he added.

"The joint standards of conduct for the Armed Forces and military equal opportunity policies address the freedom of religion, avoiding discrimination because of religion."

But Weinstein argued that most personnel are "too terrified" to speak out.

"When you actually fight against them, they make your life hell," said Hall, adding he has been passed over for promotion since launching his lawsuit. "I can't get a leg up no matter what I do."

A former military chaplain of a prestigious US military college reported being prevented from leading worship after disagreeing with the fundamentalist stance of other officials.

"I am not ready to say that if someone does not profess Christ as their savior that they are going to hell ... That got a lot of people angered," the minister told AFP, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of retaliation against a spouse who is a senior officer.

"The leader of the youth group that ministered to the teens (at the academy) said that Catholics were not Christians and that Muslims hated Christians, and that created a lot of tension," the ex-chaplain added.

"As a soldier, many times you want to believe you're fighting on the right side. It's easy to kill someone if you believe that they're going to hell and that they are religiously opposed to you."

Does anyone else find this brand of fundamentalism in our military ****ing disgusting?

WI Crippler · 02-15-08, 03:12 PM

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Originally Posted by Lachean

US Military Accused of Harboring Fundamentalists

Does anyone else find this brand of fundamentalism in our military ****ing disgusting?

I don't think its the norm. I never experienced anything of the sort. I remember some other incident happening in the Air Force a few years ago. Oh well, the Marine Corps has always been considered by the other branches(and Billo) of being nothing more than brainwashed savages and amoral thugs in uniform. I doubt they would spend much time trying to preach to "Devil Dogs".

Lachean · 02-15-08, 03:17 PM

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Originally Posted by WI Crippler

I don't think its the norm. I never experienced anything of the sort. I remember some other incident happening in the Air Force a few years ago.

I wouldn't know if it is the norm, all that I care about is if it happens AT ALL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

Oh well, the Marine Corps has always been considered by the other branches(and Billo) of being nothing more than brainwashed savages and amoral thugs in uniform. I doubt they would spend much time trying to preach to "Devil Dogs".

Just because it is, does not mean we shouldn't be disgusted by it, or do something about it.

WI Crippler · 02-15-08, 04:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Lachean

I wouldn't know if it is the norm, all that I care about is if it happens AT ALL.

Just because it is, does not mean we shouldn't be disgusted by it, or do something about it.

I agree that coercion using rank is wrong. There is probably an article in the UCMJ for just such a thing. There is also something called Request Mast(this may be a naval term only, army and air force may have a different name for it I'm not sure), which can be used to settle grieveances of this nature. If a dispute is not properly settled, you are allowed to take your grieveance to the next level in the chain of command until you feel the dispute is properly settled.

I have no problems with people in uniform having their faith, or meeting together with others of like faith. I also have no problems if they invite others to join them. But the line is crossed when people of greater rank abuse their place in the chain of command. Thats always disgusting, regardless of whether it involves religion or not.

Mach · 02-18-08, 10:59 AM

Yes, I find it disgusting.

The issue is more so that such things are possible and tolerated. The frequency of occurence is not so relevant.

-Mach

chevydriver1123 · 02-21-08, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lachean

US Military Accused of Harboring Fundamentalists

Does anyone else find this brand of fundamentalism in our military ****ing disgusting?

I find that pathetic, out of all places I would hope the military wouldnt put up this kind of garbage. Heaven forbid there is a draft and crap like this increases tenfold.

jamesrage · 02-21-08, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lachean

US Military Accused of Harboring Fundamentalists

Does anyone else find this brand of fundamentalism in our military ****ing disgusting?

I have to wonder is this guy is lying off for attention or lying because he has a beef with someone who of higher rank.During my time 3 years in the military(11B) I have never seen anyone give a rats *** if you prayed,went to church or what religion you claim to be.

Edify_Always_In_All_Ways · 02-21-08, 05:42 PM

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Originally Posted by jamesrage

I have to wonder is this guy is lying off for attention or lying because he has a beef with someone who of higher rank.During my time 3 years in the military(11B) I have never seen anyone give a rats *** if you prayed,went to church or what religion you claim to be.

Were you a praying Christian at this point, or a happy atheist holding anti-religious meetings while your superiors ignored your activities? If the latter, your experience may mean something- but the ones who most notice persecution are the persecuted.

jamesrage · 02-23-08, 10:43 AM

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Originally Posted by Edify_Always_In_All_Ways

Were you a praying Christian at this point, or a happy atheist holding anti-religious meetings while your superiors ignored your activities? If the latter, your experience may mean something- but the ones who most notice persecution are the persecuted.

I was neither.Most infantry solders were too busy drinking and chasing women on what little free time there was to give a rats *** about being religious or being a atheist.

Reverend_Hellh0und · 02-24-08, 11:17 AM

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Originally Posted by jamesrage

I was neither.Most infantry solders were too busy drinking and chasing women on what little free time there was to give a rats *** about being religious or being a atheist.

This TS's story is nonsense. Never even heard of anything like that.