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Old 01-14-08, 03:33 PM   #161
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Re: You think you are superior .. ???

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Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
And yes I do call the killing of the first borns a massacre. The first reason I call it a massacre is because if one were to interpret it literally, it killed ALL the first born sons. I don't know how much you know about history but in Ancient Egypt like in America the number of people who owned slaves was nowhere near the number of people who didn't. Killing "all" the first borns is like punishing the whites who didn't even own slaves for what slave owners did.
I am well versed in the history of Dynastic Egypt, and have worked as a volunteer with the Akhenaten Temple Project in Luxor.

I do not pretend to either know or understand all the works of YHWH. As I understand it, the first born plague also included livestock.

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Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
Tashah. I'm no religious scholar by any means but would you mind finding the timing of the oldest source text? I found out that the oldest was the Jahwist.
The oldest known primary source for the Masoretic text are the Silver Amulets which date to 700 BCE. The Masoretic texts themselves were composed between 250-200 BCE. The Septaugint 250-100 BCE. The Samaritan Pentateuch 200 BCE. The Qumran Manuscripts (Dead Sea Scrolls) 250 BCE-100 CE. Incidently, for stylistic reasons...numerous scriptural scholars identify the Jahwist as a female.

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Are you saying that Oral tradition, which was in fact the method the source material was transmitted before it was written down in 850 B.C., is a reliable source of information for historical events? I doubt that.
I had my doubts also until I investigated the Biblical Studies branch known as Textual Criticism. It's quite complex, but biblical scholars have unequivocally demonstrated that ancient oral tradition was an extremely accurate mode of information transmission.

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Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
As I said. I find the 10 plagues to be religious revisionism. The Israelites/Jews aren't special. God doesn't come down for them when they are suffering and begging him anymore then the Muslim God does when Muslims say that Allah will destroy the infidels for inflicting pain and suffering on them. If he did he'd have come down during the Inquisition or better yet during the Holocaust. Where millions of Jews were exterminated in 6 short years by what can only be described as pure evil. The fact remains that if the 10th "plague" happened. It it was very likely a massacre with human murderers, later disguised (thats where the revisionism comes in) as the work of YHWH. Deities that pick and chose when they'll come down from their Kingdoms.
I am not a religious scholar. That said, you are more than welcome to direct your questions and conclusions to a Rabbi for responsa. On the face of it though, you are applying human criteria and rationale to deistic events. It goes without saying that this avenue of exposition is strictly limited to corporeal knowledge and experience.
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Old 01-14-08, 07:49 PM   #162
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Re: You think you are superior .. ???

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Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
I am well versed in the history of Dynastic Egypt, and have worked as a volunteer with the Akhenaten Temple Project in Luxor.

I do not pretend to either know or understand all the works of YHWH. As I understand it, the first born plague also included livestock.


The oldest known primary source for the Masoretic text are the Silver Amulets which date to 700 BCE. The Masoretic texts themselves were composed between 250-200 BCE. The Septaugint 250-100 BCE. The Samaritan Pentateuch 200 BCE. The Qumran Manuscripts (Dead Sea Scrolls) 250 BCE-100 CE. Incidently, for stylistic reasons...numerous scriptural scholars identify the Jahwist as a female.


I had my doubts also until I investigated the Biblical Studies branch known as Textual Criticism. It's quite complex, but biblical scholars have unequivocally demonstrated that ancient oral tradition was an extremely accurate mode of information transmission.


I am not a religious scholar. That said, you are more than welcome to direct your questions and conclusions to a Rabbi for responsa. On the face of it though, you are applying human criteria and rationale to deistic events. It goes without saying that this avenue of exposition is strictly limited to corporeal knowledge and experience.
You seem to be enough of a scholar to answer a question for me, and it has to do with the Talmud vs. the Torah. I have heard arguments on both sides of the issue of whether the Talmud is the "truer" word of God, or whether it is the Torah.

I understand that, when Moses came down from the mountain, he gave the Jewish people the Torah, and I also understand that the Talmud was the spoken word of God, as opposed to the Torah, which was the written word. However, the Talmud contains a lot of "legalese", if that is the right way to put it. For example, the Torah says that, on Shabbat, no lamp is to be lit. The Talmud first defines Shabbat as before sundown, which is not in the Torah. Then it goes on to say that you can light a lamp before sunup, but not touch that lamp until sundown. It says that a person cannot read during the time the lamp is lit, because then he might be tempted to touch the lamp, but then says that 2 people may read, so as to keep an eye on each other to make sure that neither thoughtlessly touches the lamp to adjust it, but each person cannot be reading from the same book. It must be different books.

So my question is this. Is the Talmud still regarded as the spoken word of God, or has there been possible over interpretation of God's spoken word by well-meaning Rabbis? Or the third possibility - That God spoke through these Rabbis and had them strictly interpret his spoken word when the Talmud was finally put into written words? It is pretty confusing to me. Most Jewish people here in Houston are Talmidic Jews, but there are a few "Torah" Jews (Orthodox) here who say the Talmidic Jews are wrong. Who is right, or could both groups be right, but just talk past each other. Could this apparent conflict resolve to a common denominator, in which semantics are somehow bypassed by each side in order to come to a "truth" which satisfies both groups?
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Old 01-14-08, 07:52 PM   #163
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Attn1 Re: You think you are superior .. ???

Okay, who's trying to raise the intelligence level down here? Don't you know that this is frowned upon?

The next thing you know the Basement will be the civil place to go.
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Old 01-14-08, 07:57 PM   #164
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Re: You think you are superior .. ???

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Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
Okay, who's trying to raise the intelligence level down here? Don't you know that this is frowned upon?

The next thing you know the Basement will be the civil place to go.
Oops, you are right. Let me rephrase my last post.

DanaRhea got question.
Tasha please answer question of DanaRhea.
DanaRhea confused about something.
DanaRhea confused by own question.
Tasha please help DanaRhea.
DanaRhea like it if Tasha help.
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Old 01-14-08, 08:57 PM   #165
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Re: You think you are superior .. ???

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Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
Oops, you are right. Let me rephrase my last post.

DanaRhea got question.
Tasha please answer question of DanaRhea.
DanaRhea confused about something.
DanaRhea confused by own question.
Tasha please help DanaRhea.
DanaRhea like it if Tasha help.
BUZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!! YOU FAIL.

You didn't make any jokes about farts or boobies.
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Old 01-14-08, 09:36 PM   #166
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Re: You think you are superior .. ???

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Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
BUZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!! YOU FAIL.

You didn't make any jokes about farts or boobies.
OK. I fart on your boobies.
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Old 01-14-08, 10:34 PM   #167
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Re: You think you are superior .. ???

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Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
OK. I fart on your boobies.
That's better.
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Old 01-15-08, 12:07 AM   #168
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Re: You think you are superior .. ???

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Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
Working my azz off. I was promoted to distract manager of Traffic Engineering.
This is the first day off I've had since about the middle of November.
Congrats on the promotion.
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Old 01-15-08, 09:23 PM   #169
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Re: You think you are superior .. ???

Quote:
I was promoted to distract manager of Traffic Engineering.
That sounds like a fun job. You actually get paid for that?
How do you distract him? Sit on the edge of his desk telling stupid jokes all day?
Dance around his office in pasties and a thong?
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Old 01-16-08, 08:33 PM   #170
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Re: You think you are superior .. ???

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Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
That sounds like a fun job. You actually get paid for that?
How do you distract him? Sit on the edge of his desk telling stupid jokes all day?
Dance around his office in pasties and a thong?
Ok the psycho bitch got me on that one.

Today class we will learn how to spell “District”.

But yes it is a fun job so far I have fired 11 people with another 4 more on the line because of drug use to people thinking they could clock in then go home and sleep on State time. Yes PSB I'm an azzhole off line as well.

I have 73 field tech’s, 9 superintendents and 4 inspectors. Covering 36 open roadway projects with another 20 plus in the pipeline for 2008-2009.

Oh and btw I have 6 Muslims working for me as well. How do I know they are Muslims? Because when I threw my crews a lunch the week before Xmas they complained to HR because I had pork ribs on the same table as the other meat.
But next year I wont run into the same problem because I know a way to insure it wont happen again. Don't have one.

So PSB you looking for a job? We could take bets on how long you'd last or How long before one of my superintendents or Foremen grew tired of your bull****.
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