Billo_Really

This just gets more disgusting by the day. How anyone can defend this guy is beyond me. If you think I just hate Bush, its not without good reason. For the record, I don't hate the person, just his actions as our President. He has destroyed everything this country has stood for. To support him and his policies is as anti-American as you can be. And for those of you that think for one minute you know what an American is, then riddle me this Batman:
"Who is Thomas Paine?"

Immorality in America is alive and well. If your not part of the solution, then your part of the problem. I have never in my life believed that until now. Americans do not torture people. Anti-Americans do.

Prison Abuse Decisions Came from the Top
Monday 01 August 2005

"Closing Guantánamo or Abu Ghraib will not stop torture", ex-White House Aide asserts.
Washington, DC - The prison torture decisions "came from the top," asserts Robert Weiner, a former Clinton White House senior public affairs official. "No matter where these prisons are, so long as our policy is the same, torture will take place - closing Guantánamo or Abu Ghraib will not stop the outbreak of abuses and torture."

In an op-ed in today's Cleveland Plain Dealer, Weiner, now president of a public affairs issues strategies company, contends, "The orders to torture came from the top down. In the pyramid of power, first and foremost was President Bush's Jan. 25, 2002 executive order disavowing the Geneva Conventions for the 'new' kind of war we are fighting. Moreover, then-White House Counsel Alberto Gonzalez (now Attorney General) assisted in writing the 2002 memo, which also asserted that the Geneva Conventions - respected worldwide - were 'quaint' and 'obsolete.' Last May, before all our eyes in televised hearings, Department of Defense Under Secretary for Intelligence Dr. Stephen Cambone, who coordinates DOD intelligence policy, visibly waived off and interrupted key parts of Major General Antonio Taguba's testimony before the U.S. Senate on the depths of abuses."

In the piece, Weiner and co-author Emma Dick, a human rights analyst for Weiner's issue strategies company, contend that "calls to close the U.S. prison at Guantánamo Bay have diverted attention from the policies that have made both Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib infamous." They call it "astounding" that "the White House is claiming it would 'restrict the president's authority' to pass bipartisan legislation prohibiting the 'cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment' of detainees, and that Vice President Cheney is meeting with Congress saying the president will veto any such bill." Cheney has even stated that "if we didn't have that facility at Guantánamo to undertake this activity, we'd have to have it someplace else," words which Weiner and Dick say "send a chill to the human rights community".

The writers point out that "the torture strategy we've seen was hardly accidental or random. Army prison guards and wardens have stated that they often had to yield their turf to DoD Intelligence operations, and then the torture occurred. A June 25, 2004 memo between the FBI and DoD gave instructions to two generals: 'DoD has their marching orders from the Sec Def" about policies in the torture-questioning of prisoners."

They add, "The administration fought with Amnesty International and Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) over the use of the word 'gulag' in reference to the prison at Guantánamo Bay. In fact, such hyperbole may be needed to bring an end to the policies."

Weiner and Dick assert, "Torturing prisoners, making people pile up naked, electric shock in private areas, using vicious dogs to bite, holding people in secret in perpetuity and denying them access to their families and the legal process are not the human rights values this nation stands for. As prisoners' families, colleagues and countrymen hear of the abuses, support swells rather than diminishes for Jihad against us. We have dramatically reduced our national reputation as a human rights leader."

__________________

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners"
- Charlton Heston

Aaron

Do you have a picture to make bush or any other republican politician look bad for every occasion because I think ever since I got here I have seen you post at least ten of them. Anyways If we didn't do these tortures of confirmed terrorists we would be fighting blind in this war we're in. I mean if you look at one of them I pretty sure that one of the prisoners at getmo was released and then brought back to custody because he was captured on the war front. If getmo was closed things would be a heck of a lot worse. A lot worse. Because in some cases torturing dose work.

__________________
evil is powerless...if the good are unafraid.
-Ronald Reagan

Kelzie

You are condoning torture?!? Are you serious? This is 2005, and we live in AMERICA, not medieval Europe. Torture is wrong. Always for anyone. Especially for the US, which is supposed to uphold certain ideals.

__________________
be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

Serbian proverb

Billo_Really

Alright, here's one for your side. So I throw the dog a bone...



You should donate to this message board for having some degree of censorship that does not allow me to talk to you the way I would if I met you on the street. You have know idea the words I am not using to respond to you. Because statements this sick require special attention. So thank them for the rules that prevent me from giving you that special attention. But I will say this, it is crap like that which gets peoples heads cut off.

If we didn't have to "...GETMO...", they wouldn't have to come GETSOME!

Billo_Really

Thank you for being human.

Aaron

Yes I am condoning it because it serves them right for what they are doing. They make the Muslim comunity look like a bunch of Terrorists. They make the Muslim comunity to some people look like a religion of hate. That Is why I aprove of what getmo is doing.

26 X World Champs

You can't be serious? You think torture is OK! When I read a crappy post like this it makes me realize that some Americans are on a par with our enemies.

Here's a newsflash for all of you PRO-TORTURE Americans:

Torturing anyone is as Un-American as anyone can get. Not only is it a proven fact that torture does not yield any useful information, but lowering ourselves to the level of our enemy makes us no better than our enemy.

My God! You're OK with torture.

Simon W. Moon

What is the info you used to reach this conclusion?

__________________
"That is the problem... [we] fell in love with the idea that politicians-- even the slickest and brightest presidential candidates-- were real heroes and truly exciting people. That is wrong on its face. They are mainly dull people with corrupt instincts and criminal children. -H.S.T"

26 X World Champs

This is one of the top 10 stupidest posts I've ever read in this community.

Thanks for proving that ignorance begets ignorance. We're stupid assholes for torturing our prisoners and we have stupid Americans who are intellectually retarded and agree with this sick policy.

Aaron

yes sometimes it is sick but sometimes it is necessary. Sometimes these terrorists will crack and we will have incredibly valuable information on our hands. Information that could lead to the capture of Zarqauwi possibly or the end of terrorism in Iraq and a quicker process of getting our troops home.