Debate Politics Forums
Speak your voice
Go Back   Debate Politics Forums > Debate Politics Forum > Archives

Archives Should Fertilized Eggs Have Rights?; Should Fertilized Eggs Have Rights? TIME/CNN If Colorado for Equal Rights for Human Life and other anti-abortion groups ...

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-21-07, 11:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
la cholita gringa

 
1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Last Online: Today 07:16 AM
Posts: 13,385
Thanks: 4,034
Thanked 2,252 Times in 1,653 Posts

Awards:
Asshat of the year:  Winner of the Debate Politics 2008 Asshat of the Year Award. Congratulations! Reverse Debates:  This person has participated in reverse debates. 

Current Mood:
Sunshine
Should Fertilized Eggs Have Rights?

Should Fertilized Eggs Have Rights?

TIME/CNN

If Colorado for Equal Rights for Human Life and other anti-abortion groups can wrangle 76,000 signatures in the next six months, theirs could be the first state in the nation to vote on whether a fertilized egg should legally be considered a person. Despite resistance from abortion-rights groups, the Colorado Supreme Court on November 13 approved the ballot measure — 40 years after Colorado became the first state to relax abortion laws — giving a boost to a conservative political movement that has worked doggedly for decades to overturn Roe v. Wade. Colorado Right to Life spokesman Bob Enyart says, "Embryos are living human beings with eternal souls and spirits. You just have to refrain from killing one to see what a precious child it is."

Voters would decide if a fertilized egg is entitled to the Colorado constitutional protections of inalienable rights, equality of justice and due process of law. But opponents charge that the proposed ballot measure is just another attempt to fight abortion and a particularly misleading attempt because the word "abortion" would not appear on the ballot.

Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains says the proposal is "far outside the mainstream of Colorado." "By defining 'person' as any fertilized egg, the measure would call into question the legality of most hormonal birth control methods, such as birth control pills, as well as in-vitro fertilization," says regional president Vicki Cowart.

It would also raise the questions: what would happen to embryos awaiting implantation? Approximately 400,000 of them have been cryo-preserved in U.S. fertility clinics. Unused embryos are sometimes stored for later use, donated to others or given to scientists, according to Barbara Collura, executive director of RESOLVE: The National Infertility Association. "We support the patient's right to determine the disposition of the embryos," Collura says.

But Enyart, who is also a Denver Christian radio talk show personality, holds up the Snowflake Baby Movement as an alternative: Don't kill any embryos; instead, encourage people to adopt them. About 100 frozen embryos have already been adopted in the U.S., says Enyart, who routinely steers his listeners to the Snowflake website for information on how to give an embryo a home.

It's hard to predict how many signatures Colorado's ballot measure will attract, but what's clear is that the anti-abortion movement is fractured. Colorado Right to Life has a mailing list of 10,000 and a $100,000 budget but is no longer affiliated with the National Right to Life Committee — "kicked out," says Enyart. He explains that the NRLC has refused to back "personhood" for decades, citing the unlikelihood that it would pass muster with the U.S. Supreme Court. The "purists" of the movement are so opposed to anything that even hints of approval for abortion that one new coalition of anti-abortion groups took out full-page ads in national newspapers criticizing evangelical leader James Dobson after he applauded the Supreme Court's decision to uphold the ban on partial birth abortions. In their eyes, Dobson, who opposes abortion, had given tacit approval to the "regulated killing of the unborn" by giving the nod to a court decision that recognizes the legality of the procedure in general even as it sets limits to it. And this week in Washington, the same coalition, with representatives from 12 states, plans to announce a new national splinter group — American Right to Life — which will be headed by Brian Rohrbough... >SNIP< ...who has been an outspoken critic of the American "culture of death."

Nationally, pro-choice sentiments appear to remain predominant. The Center for Reproductive Rights in October released poll results indicating that a majority of voters don't support government interference with "medically necessary procedures prescribed by health care professionals." The poll found that 55% of respondents wanted abortion rights protected by federal law. Still, anti-abortion efforts similar to those in Colorado are currently under way in at least a dozen other states, including Georgia, Mississippi and Michigan, while officials in two states — Montana and Oregon — have already given such attempts the official thumbs-down.

link

What say y'all?
__________________
Lightdemon: "Is 10 going to outer space or something?"
Jerry: "...yes, 10 is going to outerspace."
1069 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Inline Ads
Old 11-22-07, 12:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
The Image b4 Transition

 
Lightdemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Last Online: Today 10:16 AM
Location: beneath the surface
Posts: 2,646
Thanks: 444
Thanked 594 Times in 428 Posts
Gender: Male

Current Mood:
Grumpy
Re: Should Fertilized Eggs Have Rights?

The biggest problem I think is that birth control pills will be seen as "killing a human life" every time the pill stops the reproductive process in the woman's body.

I might be wrong, so please correct me if I am, but doesn't birth control pills decieve the body into thinking that the fertalized egg is a foreign object, therefore sending antibodies and other disease fighting cells to eliminate that foreign object? Like a bacterial infection?
__________________
"My trade is to say what I think" - Voltaire
Lightdemon is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Old 11-22-07, 12:25 AM   #3 (permalink)
la cholita gringa

 
1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Last Online: Today 07:16 AM
Posts: 13,385
Thanks: 4,034
Thanked 2,252 Times in 1,653 Posts

Awards:
Asshat of the year:  Winner of the Debate Politics 2008 Asshat of the Year Award. Congratulations! Reverse Debates:  This person has participated in reverse debates. 

Current Mood:
Sunshine
Thread Starter Re: Should Fertilized Eggs Have Rights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
The biggest problem I think is that birth control pills will be seen as "killing a human life" every time the pill stops the reproductive process in the woman's body.

I might be wrong, so please correct me if I am, but doesn't birth control pills decieve the body into thinking that the fertalized egg is a foreign object, therefore sending antibodies and other disease fighting cells to eliminate that foreign object? Like a bacterial infection?
No.
BC pills contain a small amount of synthetic hormones (estrogen and progestin).
Hormonal contraception works in three ways: first, these hormones- in theory- stop the ovaries from releasing an egg (although sometimes an egg is released anyway).
Second, hormonal contraception thickens and alters (by acidifying) the pH balance of cervical secretions, making it difficult for sperm to travel through the cervix and get to an egg.
Third, hormonal contraception thins the endometrium (uterine lining- the blood and tissue that is shed each month via menstruation) so that if all else fails, and an egg is released and fertilized, it can't implant in the uterine lining, and is simply expelled along with the menses.

So, no, nothing "attacks" fertilized eggs.
BC simply makes the uterine lining "inhospitable" to them (because it's not thick enough for them to implant).
Hardly a crime, I'd say. There's no law saying one has to make one's body 'hospitable' to unwanted invaders.
1069 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Old 11-22-07, 12:54 AM   #4 (permalink)
The Image b4 Transition

 
Lightdemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Last Online: Today 10:16 AM
Location: beneath the surface
Posts: 2,646
Thanks: 444
Thanked 594 Times in 428 Posts
Gender: Male

Current Mood:
Grumpy
Re: Should Fertilized Eggs Have Rights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
No.
BC pills contain a small amount of synthetic hormones (estrogen and progestin).
Hormonal contraception works in three ways: first, these hormones- in theory- stop the ovaries from releasing an egg (although sometimes an egg is released anyway).
Second, hormonal contraception thickens and alters (by acidifying) the pH balance of cervical secretions, making it difficult for sperm to travel through the cervix and get to an egg.
Third, hormonal contraception thins the endometrium (uterine lining- the blood and tissue that is shed each month via menstruation) so that if all else fails, and an egg is released and fertilized, it can't implant in the uterine lining, and is simply expelled along with the menses.

So, no, nothing "attacks" fertilized eggs.
BC simply makes the uterine lining "inhospitable" to them (because it's not thick enough for them to implant).
Hardly a crime, I'd say. There's no law saying one has to make one's body 'hospitable' to unwanted invaders.
Good, then I've mistaken it for a very different type of birth control. Do you have any idea what it's called? I'm almost positive that this type of birth control exists. Maybe the hypodermal type?
Lightdemon is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Old 11-22-07, 01:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
la cholita gringa

 
1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Last Online: Today 07:16 AM
Posts: 13,385
Thanks: 4,034
Thanked 2,252 Times in 1,653 Posts

Awards:
Asshat of the year:  Winner of the Debate Politics 2008 Asshat of the Year Award. Congratulations! Reverse Debates:  This person has participated in reverse debates. 

Current Mood:
Sunshine
Thread Starter Re: Should Fertilized Eggs Have Rights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
Good, then I've mistaken it for a very different type of birth control. Do you have any idea what it's called? I'm almost positive that this type of birth control exists. Maybe the hypodermal type?
All hormonal contraceptives work the same way.
There is none that acts as you describe.
1069 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Old 11-22-07, 01:36 AM   #6 (permalink)
The Image b4 Transition

 
Lightdemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Last Online: Today 10:16 AM
Location: beneath the surface
Posts: 2,646
Thanks: 444
Thanked 594 Times in 428 Posts
Gender: Male

Current Mood:
Grumpy
Re: Should Fertilized Eggs Have Rights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
All hormonal contraceptives work the same way.
There is none that acts as you describe.
Oh, this is really bugging me...I'm almost certain that I've heard of this type of birth control. I remember reading about it, and one of the major consequences of this type of birth control is that the woman will no longer be capable of having babies. Once her immune system starts to think that a fertilized egg is a foreign object, it'll remember it as such. So it eliminates the fertilized egg each and every time.

Well, I've been known to be off my rocker every now and then. So there's a chance that I'm beginning to go insane.



But either way, if fertilized eggs are given rights that a normal person would have, that definately question whether birth control is killing another human. For instance, if the egg is fertilized and then rejected out of the woman's body, is that called neglect abuse? Like in child abuse cases, where parents neglect thier child. Neglect is generally defined as not providing necessary support for your child, like food, clothes, etc. In this case, nutrition?
Lightdemon is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Old 11-22-07, 01:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
la cholita gringa

 
1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Last Online: Today 07:16 AM
Posts: 13,385
Thanks: 4,034
Thanked 2,252 Times in 1,653 Posts

Awards:
Asshat of the year:  Winner of the Debate Politics 2008 Asshat of the Year Award. Congratulations! Reverse Debates:  This person has participated in reverse debates. 

Current Mood:
Sunshine
Thread Starter Re: Should Fertilized Eggs Have Rights?

Quote:
Oh, this is really bugging me...I'm almost certain that I've heard of this type of birth control. I remember reading about it, and one of the major consequences of this type of birth control is that the woman will no longer be capable of having babies. Once her immune system starts to think that a fertilized egg is a foreign object, it'll remember it as such. So it eliminates the fertilized egg each and every time.

Well, I've been known to be off my rocker every now and then. So there's a chance that I'm beginning to go insane.
No offense, sweetie, but that sounds sort of science-fiction-esque.
Perhaps it was just a nightmare, or else an evil urban legend started by the fundamentalists.

Quote:
But either way, if fertilized eggs are given rights that a normal person would have, that definately question whether birth control is killing another human. For instance, if the egg is fertilized and then rejected out of the woman's body, is that called neglect abuse? Like in child abuse cases, where parents neglect thier child. Neglect is generally defined as not providing necessary support for your child, like food, clothes, etc. In this case, nutrition?
Right. Given the fact that more than half of all fertilized eggs do not implant and are spontaneously expelled without the woman ever even knowing, this creates a logistical nightmare.
Pregnancy tests cannot detect "a fertilized egg"; both quantative blood and urine tests detect hCG (human chorionic gonadotropin, a hormone produced in pregnancy), which is not present until after implantation.
I cannot imagine the logistics (or the violations of privacy and human rights) that would be involved in the State attempting to somehow regulate or even keep track of fertilization and implantation of women's eggs.

It's just preposterous, on the face of it.
1069 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Old 11-22-07, 05:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
Sage

 
bhkad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Last Online: 11-18-08 02:05 AM
Posts: 7,458
Thanks: 1,927
Thanked 670 Times in 506 Posts

Awards:
US Army:  Army from 30 July 72 - 31 July 75, USMC from 3 Aug 81 - 5 Dec 81 

Re: Should Fertilized Eggs Have Rights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
The biggest problem I think is that birth control pills will be seen as "killing a human life" every time the pill stops the reproductive process in the woman's body.
Even in the heated polarized debate on abortion your perception is factually and logically incorrect.

If the sperm does not fertilize an egg there is no conception.

No harm, no foul.
__________________
But, when all is said and done, Senator McCain has not spent decades aiding and abetting people who hate America. http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell060508.php3
bhkad is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Old 11-22-07, 12:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
la cholita gringa

 
1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Last Online: Today 07:16 AM
Posts: 13,385
Thanks: 4,034
Thanked 2,252 Times in 1,653 Posts

Awards:
Asshat of the year:  Winner of the Debate Politics 2008 Asshat of the Year Award. Congratulations! Reverse Debates:  This person has participated in reverse debates. 

Current Mood:
Sunshine
Thread Starter Re: Should Fertilized Eggs Have Rights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
Even in the heated polarized debate on abortion your perception is factually and logically incorrect.

If the sperm does not fertilize an egg there is no conception.

No harm, no foul.
Eggs are occasionally still fertilized with hormonal contraception. But they aren't able to implant, so they are simply expelled, and no one's the wiser.
Harm/ foul?
1069 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
Old 11-24-07, 09:21 AM   #10 (permalink)
...It's a state of being

 
Felicity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Last Online: Today 01:00 PM
Posts: 8,745
Thanks: 1,137
Thanked 1,103 Times in 888 Posts

Awards:
Private Debates:  Felicity has participated in a Private Debate. Reverse Debates:  This person has participated in reverse debates. 

Re: Should Fertilized Eggs Have Rights?

Why do you refuse to call the little human by the proper name for his stage of development rather that the quaint euphemism "fertilized egg"?
__________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
While I thought that I was learning how to live, I have been learning how to die. ~*Leonardo Da Vinci*~
Felicity is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit! Wong this Post!Spurl this Post!
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Navigation
Home Main
spacer Home
spacer Newsroom
spacer Resources
spacer FAQ
spacer Chatroom

Extras Extras
spacer DP Store
spacer Statistics
spacer Worldmap
spacer Gallery
spacer Link to us

 Advertise Here!

Random Pic
by Billo_Really
· · ·
Political Cartoons
45 photos
9 comments



Debate Politics XML Feed

Add to my Yahoo!



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:00 PM.

Partners with: Computer repair || Irrationally Informed

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Debate Politics.com Copyright ©2004-2008
SEO by vBSEO