Should the tax payer have to pay for ins for a child whose parents make $83K a year?

Leeguana · 10-04-07, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navy Pride

Did you watch 20/20 a week ago.It was about universal health care in Canada, France, and Cuba........Did you know that in Canada pets have better health care then their owners..........Did you know that when people have a major illness the sometime have to wait up to 6 months for surgery and die before they get the surgery...........Did you know that Canadians come here for major surgery..........Did you know since everything is free there is no incentive for research or to improve equipment.......Did you know that people go to the doctor for the slightest illness....Something we would never consider doing..............

We don't consider doing it because of the cost. And unless you're a hypochondriac, there's should be nothing wrong with going to the doctor when you don't feel well. It has been proven to increase your lifespan.

There's also a little thing they call "preventive healthcare" that is not used enough due to cost. It also increases lifespans.

Kandahar · 10-05-07, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeguana

There's also a little thing they call "preventive healthcare" that is not used enough due to cost. It also increases lifespans.

Not to mention that if we used preventative health care more often, it would actually REDUCE the costs associated with health care, in the long term. The US spends a lot more money per capita on health care than any other nation in the world, yet we are less healthy than most other wealthy nations.

dixon76710 · 10-05-07, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kandahar

Not to mention that if we used preventative health care more often, it would actually REDUCE the costs associated with health care, in the long term. The US spends a lot more money per capita on health care than any other nation in the world, yet we are less healthy than most other wealthy nations.

I think we spend more on health care because we chose to consume more healthcare, and because we like consuming the latest, most advanced science and technologies, which are genrally more expensive. We consume MORE preventative care, again of the latest, greatest and most expensive kind.
I think comparative statistics on things such as infant mortality and life expectancy have little to nothing to do with the quality of healthcare in advanced countries.

Quote:

Healthcare Economist · Health Care System Grudge Match: Canada vs. U.S.

It turns out that once we condition on infant birthweight–a significant predictor of infant health–the U.S. has equivalent infant mortality rates. In fact U.S. infant mortality is lower for low-birthweight babies than Canadian infant mortality for low birthweight babies. Overall infant mortality, however, is higher in the U.S. because the incidence of babies with low birthweight is higher than in Canada. This may be due to demographic or epidemiological factors, or it may be the case that the U.S. is better at having a live birth for a low birthweight baby.
...
In fact 50%-85% of the mortality gap between American and Canadian adults in their twenties can be explained by the increased American accident/homicide rates. For people over 50, 30-50% of the difference in age-specific mortality rates can be attributed to the excess number of heart disease patients in the U.S. These heart disease findings are more likely driven by American lifestyle choices rather than the efficacy of the U.S. medical system.
...
Probably the most surprising discovery of the paper was that Americans partake in more preventive care than Canadians.
Mammograms: 88.6% of American females 40-69 had ever had a mammogram compared to 72.3% of Canadians.
PAP smear: 86.3% of American females 20-69 had a PAP smear in the last 3 years compared to 75.1% of Canadians.
Prostate screening: 54.2% of American men 40-69 had ever had a PSA test compared to 16.4% of Canadians.

disneydude · 10-05-07, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navy Pride

Did you watch 20/20 a week ago.It was about universal health care in Canada, France, and Cuba........Did you know that in Canada pets have better health care then their owners..........Did you know that when people have a major illness the sometime have to wait up to 6 months for surgery and die before they get the surgery...........Did you know that Canadians come here for major surgery..........Did you know since everything is free there is no incentive for research or to improve equipment.......Did you know that people go to the doctor for the slightest illness....Something we would never consider doing..............

I didn't see 20/20, but I can tell you that when I was in College I did a thesis on "socialized medicine" and spent a year researching the issue. I started with the same premise as you: That socialized medicine was a bad idea ( Afterall, I was a Reaganite in those days)...but after spending a year researching the issue, I couldn't ignore the facts, despite my politics of the day. What I discovered was that the healthcare systems in Canada and Sweden were much better than in the US.
I became very interested in the issue and have kept up my education on the issue over the years, albeit, not as intensely as I did when I was writing my thesis.
I would be interested in seeing the 20/20 episode, but I also would balance whatever information they presented with information that I already know. In other words, I wouldn't simply accept whatever they presented as fact, but I would be willing to listen.

rivrrat · 10-05-07, 08:15 AM

Yeah, canada is just fantastic

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/in...rland&emc=rss#

dixon76710 · 10-05-07, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disneydude

What I discovered was that the healthcare systems in Canada and Sweden were much better than in the US.

How do you define "better"?

disneydude · 10-05-07, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dixon76710

How do you define "better"?

Among the factors looked at: Higher age of mortality, lower childhood mortality rate, lower rates of major illnesses.

Iriemon · 10-05-07, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disneydude

Among the factors looked at: Higher age of mortality, lower childhood mortality rate, lower rates of major illnesses.

What kind of criteria is that? Try "cost of services" as a criterion and we'll see which system is really better!

heh heh

dixon76710 · 10-05-07, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disneydude

Among the factors looked at: Higher age of mortality, lower childhood mortality rate, lower rates of major illnesses.

I suspect the differences in health care probably has little to nothing to do with the differences in mortallity and illness rates.

dixon76710 · 10-05-07, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

What kind of criteria is that? Try "cost of services" as a criterion and we'll see which system is really better!

heh heh

??So if a triple bypass heart surgery costs 40% more in the US than it does in Canada, does that mean the US is 40% better?

View Poll Results: Should the tax payer have to pay for ins for a child whose parents make $83K a year?
Yes	18	46.15%
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Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

10-05-07, 08:15 AM	#165
rivrrat Goddess of Bacon Join Date: Feb 2007 Last Seen: Today 02:55 PM Posts: 9,980 Thanks: 2,791 Thanked 4,108 Times in 2,375 Posts Gender:	Re: Should the tax payer have to pay for ins for a child whose parents make $83K a ye Yeah, canada is just fantastic http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/in...rland&emc=rss#
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