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Rooting for the Enemy

Read the intro and vote accordingly


  • Total voters
    15
For the record, what Stinger has been crying about (or about a year now)started in a thread where he asked what I did for a living, in order to show bias or interest I guess. I said I don't generally share my personal information in a forum like this, but I said I'd be interested in what he did. So he wrote that he was a manager or something, and then said, now you tell me. I said forget it. So he has been crying and whining ever since, heh heh.

To set the record straight I asked you, in a discussion of the minimum wage and it's effects on hiring, if you had ever been an employer ever budgeted for employees, instead of responding you asked me if I had, I replied yes with many years of experienced and then asked you again, how about you what is the experience that you speak from, you then ran away crying "personal information, against the rules, you are harassing me", and reported it to the mods. Sorry I don't engage in debate with those who play those games and put you on my ignore list asking you to do the same of me, which you refuse to do.

And of course anyone can go to the recent "all eyes on..." thread where we were asked personal questions by everyone and not only did you freely offer information but even posted pictures.

So you can't even post honestly here.
 
No, the fact that he had them for 20 years and never supported a terrorist attack proves that the urgent threat was a lie.

Like I already pointed out, the first half of those 20 years, we were on his side. So really your argument comes down to, if you haven't given WMDs to terrorists in 10 years, then you won't, even if you're the most prolific terror-sponsor on Earth, known for using WMD to commit political genocide.

Sure, Reagan gave Hussein weapons grade chemicals to conduct "agricultural research." LOL

I'll defer you to Stinger's point on this one:

So let me get this straight, when we find hundreds of 55 gallon drums of highly concentrated organophosphates stored at his military bases, underground, camouflaged and undeclared to inspectors the Saddam defenders say that is not WMD and he only had them for agricultural use, but then the very same people turn around and say that they were WMD when they assert we supplied them to Saddam under the premise they were for agricultural use.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, and Reagan was already out of office.

Reagan didn't sponsor terrorists, and Iraq didn't have to have anything to do with 9/11. If you're just going to bury your head in the sand and repeat already debunked excuses, why even bother responding? :notlook:

Except he didn't have WMD, which he never handed to terrorist for 20 years anyway.

I refer you to the last few posts where these false statements were already debunked.

He didn't give WMD to terrorists after Reagan sponsored him either.

Already addressed.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 or any terrorist attack against the US.

Already addressed.

No we didn't. We could just lie about the reasons for the war.

Everything else Bush and Democrats cited as a reason for going in was validated. Nobody had to lie about anything.

So why do you keep trying to justify the war against Iraq based on the war on terror. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 or AQ.

Already addressed.

The war has been a waste except to create a whole new AQ in Iraq.

Relocate, not create. Most of the terrorists there are foreigners, which was a huge part of the point to going in-to give terrorists a place to fight our volunteer military over there rather than civilian targets over here, which liberals scoffed at, yet they are the first to point out that the evidence that it worked-the fact that terrorists flocked to Iraq.

Yes, that has been posted before. Which proves what?

That Democrats understood and accepted the plethora of reasons why it was urgent and necessary to remove Saddam until it became politically advantageous for them to pretend to disagree.

Let me know if you ever decide to debate these other points you've dodged.
 
Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11,

9/11 had EVERYTHING to do with Iraq.

No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:

First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, ... The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people

Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance,... the Americans are once again trying to repeat the horrific massacres, ...

Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state ... The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, ...

On that basis, and in compliance with Allah's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it,....


Less than two months before 9/11, the state-controlled Iraqi newspaper "Al-Nasiriya" carried a column headlined, "America, An Obsession Called Osama Bin Ladin." [July 21, 2001] In the piece, Baath Party writer Naeem Abd Muhalhal predicted that bin Laden would attack the U.S. "with the seriousness of the Bedouin of the desert about the way he will try to bomb the Pentagon after he destroys the White House."

The same state-approved column also insisted that bin Laden "will strike America on the arm that is already hurting," and that the U.S. "will curse the memory of Frank Sinatra every time he hears his songs"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1106657/posts

Sadam Letter to the US September 15, 2001

For this reason also, the Americans, and the world with them, should understand the argument that made those people give their lives in sacrifice, and what they sacrificed themselves for, in that way.

When one million and a half Iraqi human beings die, according to Western documents, from a population of twenty five million, because of the American blockade and aggression, it means that Iraq has lost about one twentieth of its population....
Americans should feel the pain they have inflicted on other peoples of the world, so as when they suffer, they will find the right solution and the right path.
 
Democrats aided and harbored terrorist for 9/11 and they stold my lunch money in grade school:roll:

Do you really think the laws of probability allow that mere stupidity could be what leads liberals to come down on the side that advances the interests of the enemy every single time? Stupidity would lead liberals to support random things that occasionally hurt this country, not whatever allows them to oppose national defense at every turn.

You've got to come up with a more feasible explanation for it than that if you want your ridicule to mean anything.

-When news got out that Iran had been orchestrating, arming, and funding the violence in Iraq since the beginning, Democrats reacted not by expressing concern for our troops, but by rushing in to forbid military action against Iran.

-Democrats appeased North Korea while they went nuclear.

-Democrats retreated from Islamic terrorists in Somalia.

-Democrats repeatedly refused to capture/kill Bin Laden.

-Democrats tied the hands of the police, the FBI, and the CIA in discussing terror threats.

-Democrats made it illegal to do anything when the CAPPS program identified terrorists at our airports.

-Democrats opposed electronic intercepts.

-Democrats opposed roving wiretaps.

-Democrats opposed Gitmo.

-Democrats undermined U.S. foreign policy by staging high profile meetings with isolated rogue terrorist states killing our troops in Iraq.

-Democrats went to rogue terror states and participated in enemy propaganda.

-Democrats relentlessly undermined Afghanistan...until it could be used to undermine the next war they voted for in Iraq.

-Democrats needlessly exposed the inner-workings of classified anti-terror programs.

-Democrats allowed al Qaida to attack us with impunity for nearly a decade.

-Democrats opposed missile defense at every turn.

-Democrats repeatedly voted against funding the troops after voting to put them in harm's way.

-Democrats oppose profiling the group that has committed 100% of the terrorist attacks on our planes at airports.

-Democrats share Bin Laden's talking points, literally.

-Democrats fought to deny telecommunications companies protection from frivolous lawsuits over them sticking their necks out to help us intercept foreign terrorist communications.

-Democrats claim there is no war on terror going on.

-Democrats installed Iran's lunatic Islamo-fascist regime.

-Democrats deny the Minute Men any opportunity to speak on campus, and then claim it is their dedication to "free speech" that has them facilitating in the PR campaign of the world's greatest terror-sponsor while his forces continue to mass murder U.S. troops in Iraq.

-Democrats responded to news of progress in Iraq by claiming that the troops were failures, that it was just the Iraqis getting sick of the troops' incompetence that was bringing them to take matters into their own hands. They also responded by contradicting many in their own party and by stabbing an American war hero in the back (after unanimously endorsing him)
the moment he started to succeed.

-Democrats lied for Saddam.

-Democrats have repeatedly opposed defense spending, shut down bases, and cut military budgets.

-Democrats preemptively declare our troops guilty of one accusation after another and then refuse to apologize once they are vindicated.

-Democrats are trying to surrender the primary battlefield in this global jihad against America to terrorists.
 
To set the record straight I asked you, in a discussion of the minimum wage and it's effects on hiring, if you had ever been an employer ever budgeted for employees, instead of responding you asked me if I had, I replied yes with many years of experienced and then asked you again, how about you what is the experience that you speak from, you then ran away crying "personal information, against the rules, you are harassing me", and reported it to the mods. Sorry I don't engage in debate with those who play those games and put you on my ignore list asking you to do the same of me, which you refuse to do.

And of course anyone can go to the recent "all eyes on..." thread where we were asked personal questions by everyone and not only did you freely offer information but even posted pictures.

So you can't even post honestly here.

I said I wasn't going to divulge personal information to you. If you wanted to that was your decision. The mods whacked you on their own accord because of your non-stop hounding, not because I reported it.

I could care less if you debate me. Save yourself the trouble. Keep dancing. Your good at that.
 
Like I already pointed out, the first half of those 20 years, we were on his side. So really your argument comes down to, if you haven't given WMDs to terrorists in 10 years, then you won't, even if you're the most prolific terror-sponsor on Earth, known for using WMD to commit political genocide.

Thanks but we've already established Reagan was a "terror sponsor" as you use the phrase.

I'll defer you to Stinger's point on this one:

Irrelevant. No one disputes Hussein took the chemicals terror sponsor Reagan approved him to acquire and made poisons with which he killed tens of thousands of Iranians in the unjustified war he stared with them and terror sponsor Reagan "worked with him" with, as you put it.

No wonder the Iranians like us so much.

Reagan didn't sponsor terrorists, and Iraq didn't have to have anything to do with 9/11. If you're just going to bury your head in the sand and repeat already debunked excuses, why even bother responding? :notlook:

No, clearing the way for Hussein to acquire WMDs isn't sponsoring him, is it?

I refer you to the last few posts where these false statements were already debunked.

None of my statement that are either false or debunked.

Everything else Bush and Democrats cited as a reason for going in was validated. Nobody had to lie about anything.

Oh, we sure validated the yellowcake and uranium from Nigeria and alumimum tubes used of accelerators and the hundreds of tons of weapons grade chemicals and the mobile chemical labs and the ties with AQ and the urgent threat. We validated it was all wrong.

Relocate, not create. Most of the terrorists there are foreigners, which was a huge part of the point to going in-to give terrorists a place to fight our volunteer military over there rather than civilian targets over here, which liberals scoffed at, yet they are the first to point out that the evidence that it worked-the fact that terrorists flocked to Iraq. [/'quote]

Most of the insurgents are Iraqis fighting against an attacked based on "mistakes" that made their country even worse than it was.

That Democrats understood and accepted the plethora of reasons why it was urgent and necessary to remove Saddam until it became politically advantageous for them to pretend to disagree.

By Mar 03 after the inspectors went in and found there were no WMDs were our sources said they were, there should have been a review of the obviously questionable intel. Instead the Bush Administration rushed to war.


Let me know if you ever decide to debate these other points you've dodged.

I've dodged nothing.
 
Do you really think the laws of probability allow that mere stupidity could be what leads liberals to come down on the side that advances the interests of the enemy every single time? Stupidity would lead liberals to support random things that occasionally hurt this country, not whatever allows them to oppose national defense at every turn.

You've got to come up with a more feasible explanation for it than that if you want your ridicule to mean anything.

Already addressed.
 
Perhaps you can believe it from The Herald, The Guardian, CNN, Salon, The Telegraph, The BBC, CBS, and The Washington Post:

http://www.archive-news.net/Articles/SH040923.pdf


2001 Presidential Daily Briefing
Ten days after the September 11, 2001 attacks, President Bush receives a classified Presidential Daily Briefing (that had been prepared at his request) indicating that the U.S. intelligence community had no evidence linking Saddam Hussein to the September 11th attacks and that there was "scant credible evidence that Iraq had any significant collaborative ties with Al Qaeda."

2002 DIA reports
The DIA report also cast significant doubt on the possibility of a Saddam Hussein-al-Qaeda conspiracy: "Saddam’s regime is intensely secular and is wary of Islamic revolutionary movements. Moreover, Baghdad is unlikely to provide assistance to a group it cannot control."[78] In April 2002, the DIA assessed that "there was no credible reporting on al-Qa'ida training at Salman Pak or anywhere else in Iraq

2002 British intelligence report
In October 2002, a British Intelligence investigation of possible links between Iraq and al-Qaeda and the possibility of Iraqi WMD attacks issued a report concluding: "al Qaeda has shown interest in gaining chemical and biological expertise from Iraq, but we do not know whether any such training was provided. We have no intelligence of current cooperation between Iraq and al Qaeda and do not believe that al Qaeda plans to conduct terrorist attacks under Iraqi direction

2003 CIA report
In January 2003, the CIA released a special Report to Congress entitled Iraqi Support for Terrorism. The report concludes that "In contrast to the patron-client pattern between Iraq and its Palestinian surrogates, the relationship between Iraq and al-Qaida appears to more closely resemble that of two independent actors trying to exploit each other — their mutual suspicion suborned by al-Qaida's interest in Iraqi assistance, and Baghdad's interest in al-Qaida's anti-U.S. attacks…. The Intelligence Community has no credible information that Baghdad had foreknowledge of the 11 September attacks or any other al-Qaida strike." (See below).[81]
In January 2003, British intelligence completed a classified report on Iraq that concluded that "there are no current links between the Iraqi regime and the al-Qaeda network." The report was leaked to the BBC, who published information about it on February 5, the same day Colin Powell addressed the United Nations. According to BBC, the report "says al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden views Iraq's ruling Ba'ath party as running contrary to his religion, calling it an 'apostate regime'. 'His aims are in ideological conflict with present day Iraq,' it says."

2003 Israeli intelligence
In February 2003, Israeli intelligence sources told the Associated Press that no link has been conclusively established between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

2004 9/11 Commission Report
The official report issued by the 9/11 Commission in July 2004 addressed the issue of a possible conspiracy between the government of Iraq and al-Qaeda in the September 11 attacks. The report addressed specific allegations of contacts between al-Qaeda and members of Saddam Hussein's government and concluded that there was no evidence that such contacts developed into a collaborative operational relationship, and that they did not cooperate to commit terrorist attacks against the United States. The report includes the following information:

“Bin Ladin was also willing to explore possibilities for cooperation with Iraq, even though Iraq’s dictator, Saddam Hussein, had never had an Islamist agenda—save for his opportunistic pose as a defender of the faithful against "Crusaders" during the Gulf War of 1991. Moreover, Bin Ladin had in fact been sponsoring anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan, and sought to attract them into his Islamic army. To protect his own ties with Iraq, Turabi reportedly brokered an agreement that Bin Ladin would stop supporting activities against Saddam. Bin Ladin apparently honored this pledge, at least for a time, although he continued to aid a group of Islamist extremists operating in part of Iraq (Kurdistan) outside of Baghdad’s control. In the late 1990s, these extremist groups suffered major defeats by Kurdish forces. In 2001, with Bin Ladin’s help they re-formed into an organization called Ansar al Islam. There are indications that by then the Iraqi regime tolerated and may even have helped Ansar al Islam against the common Kurdish enemy.
Bin Ladin himself met with a senior Iraqi intelligence officer in Khartoum in late 1994 or early 1995. Bin Ladin is said to have asked for space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but there is no evidence that Iraq responded to this request. As described below, the ensuing years saw additional efforts to establish connections. There is also evidence that around this time Bin Ladin sent out a number of feelers to the Iraqi regime, offering some cooperation. None are reported to have received a significant response.

2004 Senate Report of Pre-war Intelligence on Iraq
In Section 12 of the report, titled Iraq's Links to Terrorism, the Senate committee examined the CIA's "five primary finished intelligence products on Iraq’s links to terrorism." The report focused specifically on the CIA's 2003 study. After examining all the intelligence, the Senate committee concluded that the CIA had accurately assessed that contacts between Saddam Hussein's regime and members of al-Qaeda "did not add up to an established formal relationship."

2004 CIA report
In August, the CIA finished another assessment of the question of Saddam's links to al-Qaeda. This assessment had been requested by the office of the Vice President, who asked specifically that the CIA take another look at the possibility that Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi constituted a link between Saddam and al-Qaeda, as Colin Powell had claimed in his speech to the United Nations Security Council. The assessment concluded that there was no evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime harbored Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

2005 update of CIA report
In October 2005, the CIA updated the 2004 report to conclude that Saddam's regime "did not have a relationship, harbor, or even turn a blind eye toward Mr. Zarqawi and his associates," according to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (see 2006 report below).[91]

2006 Pentagon study
In February 2006, the Pentagon published a study of the so-called Harmony database documents captured in Afghanistan.[93] While the study did not look specifically at allegations of Iraq's ties to al-Qaeda, it did analyze papers that offer insight into the history of the movement and tensions among the leadership. In particular, it found evidence that al-Qaeda jihadists had viewed Saddam as an "infidel" and cautioned against working with him.

2006 Senate Report of Pre-War Intelligence
In September 2006, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence released two reports constituting Phase II of its study of pre-war intelligence claims regarding Iraq's pursuit of WMD and alleged links to al-Qaeda. These bipartisan reports included "Findings about Iraq's WMD Programs and Links to Terrorism and How they Compare with Prewar Assessments"[97] and "The Use by the Intelligence Community of Information Provided by the Iraqi National Congress".[98] The reports concluded that, according to David Stout of the New York Times, "there is no evidence that Saddam Hussein had prewar ties to Al Qaeda and one of the terror organization’s most notorious members, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi."[99] The "Postwar Findings" volume of the study concluded that there was no evidence of any Iraqi support of al-Qaeda, al-Zarqawi, or Ansar al-Islam. The "Iraqi National Congress" volume concluded that "false information" from INC-affiliated sources was used to justify key claims in the prewar intelligence debate and that this information was "widely distributed in intelligence products" prior to the war.

The "Postwar Findings" report had the following conclusions about Saddam's alleged links to al-Qaeda:

Conclusion 1: The CIA's assessment that Iraq and al-Qaeda were "two independent actors trying to exploit each other" was accurate only about al-Qaeda. "Postwar findings indicate that Saddam Hussein was distrustful of al-Qa'ida and viewed Islamic extremists as a threat to his regime, refusing all requests from al-Qa'ida to provide material or operational support."

Conclusion 2: Postwar findings have indicated that there was only one meeting between representatives of Saddam Hussein and representatives of al-Qaeda. These findings also identified two occasions "not reported prior to the war, in which Saddam Hussein rebuffed meeting requests from an al-Qa'ida operative. The Intelligence Community has not found any other evidence of meetings between al-Qa'ida and Iraq."

Conclusion 4: "Postwar findings support the April 2002 Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) assessment that there was no credible reporting on al-Qa'ida training at Salman Pak or anywhere else in Iraq. There have been no credible reports since the war that Iraq trained al-Qa'ida operatives at Salman Pak to conduct or support transnational terrorist operations."

Conclusion 6: Prewar interactions between Saddam Hussein's government and al-Qaeda affiliate group Ansar al-Islam were attempts by Saddam to spy on the group rather than to support or work with them. "Postwar information reveals that Baghdad viewed Ansar al-Islam as a threat to the regime and that the IIS attempted to collect intelligence on the group."
Conclusion 7: "Postwar information supports prewar Intelligence Community assessments that there was no credible information that Iraq was complicit in or had foreknowledge of the September 11 attacks or any other al-Qa'ida strike.....

Conclusion 8: "No postwar information indicates that Iraq intended to use al-Qa'ida or any other terrorist group to strike the United States homeland before or during Operation Iraqi Freedom."

2007 Pentagon Inspector General Report
In February 2007, the Pentagon's inspector general issued a report that concluded that Feith's Office of Special Plans, an office in the Pentagon run by Douglas Feith that was the source of most of the misleading intelligence on al-Qaeda and Iraq, had "developed, produced, and then disseminated alternative intelligence assessments on the Iraq and al Qaida relationship, which included some conclusions that were inconsisent with the consensus of the Intelligence Community, to senior decision-makers." The report found that these actions were "inappropriate" though not "illegal." [/I]
 
Democrats aided and harbored terrorist for 9/11 and they stold my lunch money in grade school:roll:

To “liberals” Democrats are the problem, I get it, my sainted grandpa and grandma were Democrats of the FDR variety, so I get it:

“In the case of Iraq, for the last 10 years the U.S. and Britain have been devastating the civilian society. Madeleine Albright's famous statement about how maybe half a million children have died, and it's a high price but we're willing to pay it, that doesn't sound too good among people who think that maybe it matters if half a million children are killed by the U.S. and Britain. And meanwhile [the sanctions are] strengthening Saddam Hussein.” (On the Attacks on New York and Washington, Noam Chomsky interviewed by David Barsamian, International Socialist Review, Issue 20, November-December, 2001)
On the Attacks on New York and Washington, Noam Chomsky interviewed by David Barsamian

The “liberals” who claim One Iraq, Two Iraq, Three Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 are the ones I believe Saddam was expecting to save him from his dilemma:

“Some voices have risen on the part of some peoples, journalists, writers, and, in a very restricted way, the voices of those who are preparing themselves, in the shadow, to replace the rulers there.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)

The “rulers there” stole the lunch money strengthening the call for “Jihad and proper action,“ which was a “liberal“ morality “by any means necessary” meant to end the lukewarm “liberal” arts of war.

It is not unlike “liberal” support for a mother who could benefit when Death Wish (Al Quacka) attacks her children’s molester. In this case the “liberals” defend the mother who first raped and chained up her own children, and they blame the law for sending out family and children’s services to sanction the mother making her children work for food while she lives in a palace. When the mother refuses to comply with the law the “liberal” hears the screams of the abused children being dragged away from the abusive environment and are brought to tears; in “liberal” eyes the children are better off with their mother...and it's a high price but “liberals” are willing to pay it…

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/23805-rooting-enemy-19.html#post677675

http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-i...civil-war-surge-another-war-3.html#post672848
 
.... In this case the “liberals” defend the mother who first raped and chained up her own children, and they blame the law for sending out family and children’s services to sanction the mother making her children work for food while she lives in a palace. When the mother refuses to comply with the law the “liberal” hears the screams of the abused children being dragged away from the abusive environment and are brought to tears; in “liberal” eyes the children are better off with their mother...and it's a high price but “liberals” are willing to pay it…

Thanks. That sums it up nicely.
 
aquapub said:
Relocate, not create. Most of the terrorists there are foreigners, which was a huge part of the point to going in-to give terrorists a place to fight our volunteer military over there rather than civilian targets over here, which liberals scoffed at, yet they are the first to point out that the evidence that it worked-the fact that terrorists flocked to Iraq.

I will say it once again. This mentality is cold-hearted and shortsighted.
Think about it for a second.
 
You don't say? And from Freerepublic.com, too eh? That proves it right there.

Did you have a point you wanted to try and make? You can check ANY of the quotes and see that they are accurate. The article was put into the congressional record.
http://www.uscg.mil/Legal/Homeland_legislation/Text/091202 Homeland Security.txt
But you are giving us all a demonstration of how you arrive at your views and how you maintain those views. By disregarding anything that doesnt fit with your preconcieved views. A kind of willfull ignorance.
 
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Despite repeated warnings, the personal attacks continue. Stick a fork in this thread, it's done.
 
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