Military report cites humiliation of U.S. prisoners

vauge · 07-14-05, 12:58 PM

Quote:

WASHINGTON -- The Guantanamo detainee suspected of being the would-be "20th hijacker" for the Sept. 11 attacks was subjected to abusive treatment, including being forced to wear a bra and perform a series of "dog tricks" during interrogation, according to an official report made public during a Senate hearing Wednesday.

The military investigators' report recommended punishment for the commanding officer of the Guantanamo Bay jail at the time, Army Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, but that suggestion was overturned by a higher-ranking officer.

The report said Mohamed al-Qahtani--labeled by U.S. officials as the "20th hijacker"--was forced to stand naked before a woman interrogator for at least five minutes and was made to wear thong underwear on his head and a bra.

Qahtani also was told by interrogators that "his mother and sister were whores," according to the report, and he was led by a dog leash attached to his hand chains and made to do a "series of dog tricks" as part of the interrogation.

Female interrogators also massaged Qahtani's neck and back, and one ran her fingers through his hair and told him that resisting the questioning was futile.

A second "high value" detainee was told that he and his family would be killed if he did not cooperate.

Despite the harshness of these tactics, it is not clear that they violated any law. The Geneva Conventions prohibit sexually degrading tactics, but the Bush administration has said the Geneva Conventions don't apply to the Guantanamo detainees, saying they are suspected terrorists rather than prisoners of war.

Arch Enemy · 07-14-05, 01:03 PM

That's a big problem with todays world. We cannot possibly draw the line between infringing on someone's rights and what we need to do during interrogation in order to get life-saving information out of them. Those actions are the United States trying to lower the prisoner's self-esteem, in order for him to break-down and submit to the interrogators.

We have to remember that as long as interrogation tactics are invented counter-interrogation tactics will also.

So where do we draw the line, between us trying to pull life-saving information and down right inhumane actions?

Datamonkee · 07-14-05, 01:14 PM

I think that person should be thanking Allah that we don't take a page out of the Viet Cong book of torture techniques. I hear electrodes attached to various sensitive organs produce results. Then there is the ever infamous Spanish Inquisition techniques of flaying for confessions, or the rack, or breaking each digit on your fingers and toes. Or better yet, use the same techniques his fellow terrorist use, and maybe saw off his body parts with pen knives on internet television for the entire world to see. Hmmm. But the Americans are the inhumane ones. We are the flies in this soup.

Stherngntlmn · 07-14-05, 02:10 PM

Oh my God...! this is tragic... you mean the man who participated in planning the slaughter of over 3000 american civilians was made to wear a bra and thong... THE HORROR! How dare we do this...? What gives us the right to use empty verbal threats on a prisoner in order to gain information that may save the lives of American soldiers....

OH the humanity... these humiliating actions bring shame on our bullying country... and make me ashamed to call myself an American....!

[ /sarcasm]

shuamort · 07-14-05, 02:34 PM

Back in High School, I was president of the school's Amnesty International chapter. We went to the locally based Center for Victims of Torture to hear a man speak about his life as a political dissident in Argentina. He and his wife were tortured for speaking out against the governments abduction of people and putting them into prisons. He and his wife were then imprisoned and tortured in front of each other to have them name names of other dissidents. At one point that inserted a glass tube into the man's urethra and broke it with a hammer. His wife, blindfolded, burned with an iron poker, and starved, eventually died in front of him from the torture.

Torture has NEVER been proven to be an effective form of extracting information. Hearing this story and many others similar to that made it quite firm in my mind that no one should EVER be tortured.

Stherngntlmn · 07-14-05, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuamort

Back in High School, I was president of the school's Amnesty International chapter. We went to the locally based Center for Victims of Torture to hear a man speak about his life as a political dissident in Argentina. He and his wife were tortured for speaking out against the governments abduction of people and putting them into prisons. He and his wife were then imprisoned and tortured in front of each other to have them name names of other dissidents. At one point that inserted a glass tube into the man's urethra and broke it with a hammer. His wife, blindfolded, burned with an iron poker, and starved, eventually died in front of him from the torture.

Torture has NEVER been proven to be an effective form of extracting information. Hearing this story and many others similar to that made it quite firm in my mind that no one should EVER be tortured.

Actually the report that was released... stated specifically that there was NO, I repeat, NO torture at Gitmo. There were a couple instances where a prison may have felt humiliated during an interogation, and a couple of instances of abuse by rogue personel... but NO Torture.

by the way... if you classify the instances listed in the original post of this thread as torture, the transvestites, transexuals, and alternative sex lifestyle lovers of the Gay Marriage section might start really disliking you.

shuamort · 07-14-05, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stherngntlmn

Actually the report that was released... stated specifically that there was NO, I repeat, NO torture at Gitmo. There were a couple instances where a prison may have felt humiliated during an interogation, and a couple of instances of abuse by rogue personel... but NO Torture.

Is it too much to ask to treat people as people and not humiliate them. Especially when they have not been CONVICTED of anything? Claiming that since they're not american citizens is the worst cop-out of all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stherngntlmn

by the way... if you classify the instances listed in the original post of this thread as torture, the transvestites, transexuals, and alternative sex lifestyle lovers of the Gay Marriage section might start really disliking you.

I'd consider it torture to be forced in a prison to have sex with a person of the opposite sex (and I'm sure you'd feel the same about having sex with a person of the same sex). Of course, this isn't an issue of sexuality, this is an issue of forced humiliation.

Datamonkee · 07-14-05, 03:18 PM

Oh, he had such a rough time, the poor thing. I had worse hazing in friggin high school. If he thinks that was rough, stick him in a frat for pledge week. HA.. that's true humiliation.

http://www.voicesofsept11.org/911ic/...04/012704d.php

Simon W. Moon · 07-14-05, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Datamonkee

I think that person should be thanking Allah that we don't take a page out of the Viet Cong book of torture techniques. I hear electrodes attached to various sensitive organs produce results.

The new definitions of torture don't include this. This is now classified as mere abuse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Datamonkee

But the Americans are the inhumane ones. We are the flies in this soup.

This a one of the classic logical fallacies. Tu quoque is what it's called. (That link by the way has a real life example from UbL no less.)
The gist of it is no matter how rotten other people are, it doesn't make doing something wrong into something that's right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stherngntlmn

Actually the report that was released... stated specifically that there was NO, I repeat, NO torture at Gitmo. There were a couple instances where a prison may have felt humiliated during an interogation, and a couple of instances of abuse by rogue personel... but NO Torture.

Our current Presidential Administration has raised threshold for torure beyond what a reasonable person would define as torure.
Many horrific acts are no longer considered torture under our new definition since they don't rise "to the level of death, organ failure, or the permanent impairment of a significant body function."

Electrodes on the genitals- no longer torture.
Bamboo under the fingernails- no longer torture.
Thumbscrews- no longer torture
Electrical shocks- no longer torture
Red-hot irons- no longer torture
Beatings- no longer torture

Given the new, improved definition of torture, I doubt if there's much torture going on.

Some of us more old-fashioned folks are taken aback at what's no longer torture but now merely abuse.

stsburns · 07-14-05, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuamort

Is it too much to ask to treat people as people and not humiliate them. Especially when they have not been CONVICTED of anything? Claiming that since they're not american citizens is the worst cop-out of all.

Since when has humiliation been a Synonym for torture! Webster couldn't find it! Webster Definition So really where's the link? When did being convicted have to do with information! You do know you cannot be convicted of anything and still be with holding information. Look at the Aruba case! Food for though!