Gibberish

Post 18 is nothing more then a regurgitation of Post 1. The majority of the sources in Posts #4 and #5 are within 3 years old and offers ads of differing political positions.

If anything you could make the claim the NYT is a liberal paper and gives discounts to mostly liberal sponsors.

__________________
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?

Gibberish

Winning is great for everyone. The logical take into consideration the costs needed to win vs the costs of stepping back. Do you push for a "win" in Iraq if it costs tens of thousands of US lives and trillion of dollars? Do you also push for the "win" if there is a good chance that once we do leave Iraq the current Shia government will most likely ally with Iran who is becoming more and more a US enemy?

It seems the "vast majority of US troops" is about 50% or so.
Military Times Polls

__________________
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?

mpg

Isn't that what this thread is about?

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"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength." - Eric Hoffer

The_Real_ElRoi

Dear MoveOn Member,

The U.S. Senate just told you to sit down and be quiet when they passed a Republican amendment condemning MoveOn.1

Every day, our brave men and women are dying in a bloody civil war this Senate has done nothing to stop. Yesterday, they couldn't even pass a bill to give soldiers adequate leave with their families before redeploying.2 But they're spending time cracking down on a newspaper ad?

So, we're making clear where America stands. We're releasing a statement from MoveOn members—and anyone else who feels the same way—saying, "We will not be quiet, will fight back. We will keep speaking out until Congress forces an exit plan for this awful war."

Clicking here will add your name:

http://pol.moveon.org/fightback/o.pl...797-wlSxIc&t=3

Maybe you liked our General Petraeus ad.3 Maybe you thought the language went too far. But make no mistake: this is much bigger than one ad.

It's part of a larger campaign by Fox, the right-wing echo chamber, and Republicans like John McCain (who said we should be "thrown out of the country").4

They're doing it because they're hurting: Polls show last week's Bush Administration PR blitz increased the number of Americans favoring withdrawal5 and vulnerable Republicans are sinking lower and lower in the polls (or announcing their retirement).

And it has one purpose: to intimidate all of us. To send a message that anyone who speaks unpleasant truths about this war will pay. To make everyone—especially politicians—think twice before they accuse the administration of lying.

If it looks like we're on the run, people will think twice before they speak out. Will you send a message today to Dick Cheney, Fox, Bill O'Reilly, John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, Karl Rove—and the Democrats without the guts to vote against this—that it's not working?

We've changed our home page to just run the names of people who sign on. We'll report the totals to the media all day. And if we can find an electronic billboard in Washington, D.C., we'll run the names there, too.

And after you add your name, you can go one step further. We've put together a fair but hard-hitting ad that highlights how, yesterday, Republicans blocked a bill to give our troops adequate family leave before going back to Iraq. If we can raise enough money, we'll air this ad across the country and take the fight back to the real issues—this terrible war and its impact on our troops and the Iraqi people.

Clicking here will add your name to our statement:

http://pol.moveon.org/fightback/o.pl...797-wlSxIc&t=4

This morning, the Senate didn't pass an exit strategy for Iraq. They didn't pass a bill to cover millions of uninsured Americans or combat the climate crisis. Nope—they condemned 3.4 million Americans for speaking out against the war.

Let them know them it's not going to work.

Thank you for all you do, every day, to get the truth out.

–Eli, Aaron, Adam G., Adam R., Anna, Carrie, Daniel, Erik, Ilyse, Jennifer, Joan, Justin, Karin, Laura, Marika, Matt, Natalie, Nita, Noah, Tanya, Tom & Wes
MoveOn.org Political Action
Thursday, September 20th, 2007


PS. I will join MoveOn members tonight for a live webcast at 8:30 EST/ 5:30 PST. We'll update this situation, talk about next steps, and answer your questions. To join in, click here:

http://pol.moveon.org/fight_back_cal...797-wlSxIc&t=5

Sources:

1. You can see the resolution text here and the roll call of who voted for it here. Absurdly, it claims that MoveOn "impugns the honor and integrity of ... all the members of the United States Armed Force"—despite the fact that MoveOn includes hundreds of thousands of veterans and military family members, who've led our campaign to bring our troops home.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2988&id=11...797-wlSxIc&t=7

2. "Effort to Shift Course in Iraq Fails in Senate," New York Times , September 19, 2007.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/20/wa...20cong.html?hp

3. You can read the ad text and why we ran it here:
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2987&id=11...797-wlSxIc&t=8

4. "McCain To MoveOn: Get Out," CBS News, September 14, 2007.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2973&id=11...797-wlSxIc&t=9

5. "Poll: Most Say Bush Iraq Plan Falls Short," CBS News, September 17, 2007.
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2974&id=11...97-wlSxIc&t=10

PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG POLITICAL ACTION, http://pol.moveon.org/
Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

__________________
A fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact. ~The definition of delusional~ The people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders. All you have to do is tell them that they are in danger of being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.~Hermann Goering~

Gibberish

One thing is certain, no largely funded entity is going to pay full price for an ad in any newspaper/magazine. Any ad sales person can tell you that if you have a large company that you want repeat business with you give them a discount for them to return. The NYT is no exception.

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When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?

The_Real_ElRoi

The NYT offers discounts on ads to anybody from MoveOn to Rudy Giuliani as long as they don't mind on what day and in what section of the paper the ad runs. This is pretty much common knowledge to anybody who doesn't have their head firmly planted up their own rectum. Giuliani got the same rate on his Anti-MoveOn attack ad that he ran a few days later. People should do more research before they going running of at the keyboard.

__________________
A fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact. ~The definition of delusional~ The people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders. All you have to do is tell them that they are in danger of being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.~Hermann Goering~

mpg

Where'd you hear that?

__________________
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength." - Eric Hoffer

Gibberish

It's how ad sales works. I place a lot of newspaper and magazine ad's for clients and have never once come close to paying full price in the LA Times, OC Register, San Diego Union Tribune, or San Fransisco Chronicle.

If you work with bigger companies like ShopPR you can even get free ad placement piggy backing on a bigger ad campaigns.

__________________
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?

The_Real_ElRoi

And if you are not particular about what day the ad runs on and what section of the news paper it runs in, correct?

__________________
A fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact. ~The definition of delusional~ The people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders. All you have to do is tell them that they are in danger of being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.~Hermann Goering~

mpg

Thanks for the info, but why did you wait till page 11?

__________________
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength." - Eric Hoffer