Trajan Octavian Titus

ALL Islamists are Islamic Fascists who are anti-Semietic don't confuse regular Muslims with Islamists, furthermore, some Islamists are more anti-semetic than others those being the ones of the Sayyid Qutb, al-Banna, and Grand Mufti variety, all Islamists believe that Jews are to be second class citizens known as Dhimmi's those of the aforementioned variety go a step further and believe like the Nazi's that they are their enemies.

Trajan Octavian Titus

But the point is that like the moderate Muslims they are not those who are in power or in the majority. And perhaps moderate Muslims are in the majority but the majority of them are of the "yes but," variety, IE the "ofcourse terrorism is wrong and we do not condone it but . . . . " and those that are truly moderate and speak out against the Islamists without adding the qualifier "but" live in constant danger IE, those like Tafik Hamid, and Salmond Rushdie.

Volker

It has been removed, because Israel did not want to participate Madrid Peace Conference otherwise. One might argue if it's accurate or not, it sure is not racist.

Jenin

Thank you for making an effort yourself to atleast distinguish your hatred. The problem is that Gysgt's vocabulary is filled with straighforward Muslim stereotype and attacks on the religeon itself. Your vocab is the same, and I hope this vague distinction you just made will help you speak in a less prejudiced manner.


No. Now you are lying.
One: Jesus, peace be upon him was a semite and spoke aramaic. Your entire exposure to him in the media has been a big distortion. If you sincerely believe that Jesus looks even close to the paintings, drawings, and even disgusting mockery made of him in cartoons and charicatures you are not well informed on who this man was.
Two: King James' 'bible' is filled with more violence and violent commands than any other religious text known to monotheism. The 'teachings of Christ', peace be upon him are at best very weakly assessed recreations of events by supposed companions of his. These writings, it is well known, have been edited, and rephrased countless times by countless religious authorities over the past millenia.

What is your defenition of civilization?
Also, do you mean Islamism is ideology of politicizing islam? That is impossible end, just like it is impossible to end 'christian' morals from being used to define certain aspects of domestic and foreign policy.
Islamism can be curtailed. But believe me whenever governments and systems are inept at providing the people in the muslim world with a sense of justice (Ie. end to corruption, freedom from occupation, ect) Islamism will increase. Such is the case in southern lebanon, Palestine, Pakistan and Kashmir, Phillipines, Tailand, and Chechniya. When a believer loses all hope in man for justice, he turns to God.



Quit being a dork. I have criticized muslims as well as non muslims before. However, my primairy participation in these forums regards the Palestinian question.
OBL worked in groups that during the soviet invasion were very much in strong cooperation with the CIA. Also, I have huge important questions that neither the american government nor it's Omission report have answered. I have this 'comission report' in my hand right here. I have almost finished reading every page in it, including the footnotes and they have yet to answer huge overwhelming evidence that contradicts their story. WTC7 is not mentioned except in a couple of pictures. The demolition of it by explosives in not answered. The apparent demolition collapse of the north and south towers has not been answered. Not a single picture of the plane hitting the pentagon in the entire report.

The entire supposed operation was the brainchild of Khalid Sheik Mohammed. He was one of the first members of Al-Qaeda to be captured and the primairy direct link to OBL regarding the operation. I have studied this man in detail, read his military hearing transcripts and pose important questions about his relationship with OBL that have not been answered.

I have questions about Al-Zawahiri and Al-Zarqawi that have not been anwered.

I have questions about Amdocs, and about other mossad controlled operations that have not been answered.

I have questions about Jordanian and Egyptian intelligence networks that have not been answered...

The official story of what happened on 9-11, is a huge sham so long that the US govt does not make a sincere effort to answer important questions. The whole thing is a big coverup... I still wait for history or maybe some honest people to answer my questions.

9-11 has helped the US govt and other governments to curtail civil liberties and instigate agression against nations that otherwise they could not have done...

OK lunch time here... Ill be back..

__________________
"A child becomes a man when he knows what came before him" -- Anonymous
"Conquerors, my son, consider as true history only what they themselves have fabricated"
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The%...ut%201948.html

Jenin

Fundementalist evangelist and zionist propaganda..
Yet they lived in palestine, called themselves palestinians, their birth records before '48 called them palestinians and even jews living back then spoke arabic and called themselves palestinian jews. They have distinct palestinian cuisine, distinct palestinian accents, distinct features when compared to saudi arabs, distinct dress, distinct culture and societies.


Not conspiratorial. Conspiracy is the coverup of truth by people like you. The denial of a national identity, the denial of their rights, and the agreement with cia explanations of what occured on 9-11 with the overwhelming evidence that is not answered.





That is a lie. It is aricans who speak arabic fighting africans that dont speak arabic. And all of this is happening because they are in africa. Sudan is as much a middle eastern nation as afghanistan is. But according to your propaganda image you posted, you have a limited understanding of what is arab and what isnt.


Duh. They created them because they are palestinian refugees and needed shelter.

If israel ended the destruction of Palestine, teaching children zionist lies, and agreed to withdraw back to '67 lines in exchange for peace and recognition we would not be having this debate. Israel has a different agenda.

No one is asking Israelis to lay down their guns. We are asking them to quit using their guns to subjugate Palestinians and steal their lands.

Complete zionist lie.
One: Israelis have always had greater arms than their neighbors. They were not the 'little guy' in the conflict.
Two: The ethnic cleansing of palestine started before the Arabs intervened, some for their own selfish reasons.



Only Iran is homosexuality punishable by death. (Maybe saudi, but I havent heard about it). So cut this stereotype of 300 million arabs. Homosexuality is forbidden in every religion.

You debate with pure stereotype and prejudice.


You sold him chemical technology.
You acquiesced to his crimes against the persians and kurds.
Hypocrisy on behalf of the government....not to mention Iran-Contra.

Its fact. You dont like it.


No it is not. The muslims did not convert or kill any palestinians when they defeated the byzentines. Crusaders did, however.

"In palestine? Show me the documents.
I can show you documents in detail regarding european zionist conquest of palestine, however.

Actually, a goldenage for religeous coexistance and harmony... until the bloody inquision.

Racist bs. So the jews just happen to 'invent things' now? Zionists, maybe. But entire european jewry and their experience in spain is bs?


LOL. Christian, jewish and muslim arabs were massacred. Christian, jewish, and muslim arabs fought the crusader barbarians. And a kurd, too. Salahudin, a kurd from tikrit, fought and defeated the crusader animals.


Muslims, upon taking palestine,

reduced taxes drastically.
allowed jews to finally worship freely and openly, and practice their faith.
allowed christians the same.

Once they cut taxes, they used the income for a fund for the jews and christians. They granted them amnesty from joining the army, and provided them protection.

Today, palestinian homes are demolished. Palestinians outside jerusalem are banned from prayer inside. Their lands are forcibly taken, their farms are uprooted. They are taxed heavily even though they are not allowed representation.

__________________
"A child becomes a man when he knows what came before him" -- Anonymous
"Conquerors, my son, consider as true history only what they themselves have fabricated"
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The%...ut%201948.html

CaptainCourtesy

Moderator's Warning:

The hate speech issue has been brought up regarding this thread. I have allowed debate to continue as, for the most part, the issues presented are debatable. However, there are two issues that need to cease: 1) As has been explained on numerous occasions, the the term 'ethnic cleansing' is synonymous with genocide...something that has not occurred. 2) The term 'Zion' or 'Zionist' is not a racist term, but it is being used in an insulting, degrading way. I have mentioned this in-thread; I am now mentioning it 'stronger'. Both of these issues can be seen as hate speech, and need to stop.

__________________
"Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

====||:-D

Jenin

On the crusades from this hate link TOT used...

more on these pigs called crusaders...

disgusting.

__________________
"A child becomes a man when he knows what came before him" -- Anonymous
"Conquerors, my son, consider as true history only what they themselves have fabricated"
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The%...ut%201948.html

Jenin

Genocide did not occur. Massacres of palestinians did occur.
Ethnic cleasing did occur. It has been documented.

I use the term Zionist when referring to Zionists. I correctly do not use the term jews, because not all jews are zionists and not all zionists are jews. If I were to use the term jews, I would be a racist and it would be hatespeech. I specifically refrain from generalization, stereotype, and prejudice of jews as zionists.

__________________
"A child becomes a man when he knows what came before him" -- Anonymous
"Conquerors, my son, consider as true history only what they themselves have fabricated"
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The%...ut%201948.html

Simon W. Moon

Whats really funny is that whoever put that together apparently has no idea what they're talking about (or is intentionally mis-leading their intended audience- I can't tell).
There's quite a bit there that's not Arab.

That's what's really funny.

__________________
"The barbarous custom of having men beaten who are suspected of having important secrets to reveal must be abolished. It has always been recognized that this way of interrogating men, by putting them to torture, produces nothing worthwhile."
- Napoleon Bonaparte to Berthier 11 Nov 1798 Napoleon on the Art of War

MSgt

And once again your frustrations about what you are standing for come crashing down when up against an individual who knows more about your region then you would like........

You gave me exaggerations and attempted to label every day governance as something other than what it is.

Texts have nothing to do with it. It's your fundamental needs based on very real historical Islamic roots that are the problem. I blame what is Islam's fault on Islam and I blame what is the Western's fault on the West. However, I will not excuse or strip responsibility away from Muslims that have wrecked the Muslim world.

Do you realize that the two Arab leaders that have come the closest to pan-Arab approval were Mu'ammar Qaddafi and Saddam Hussein? That these two rulers, of all Arab rulers, should enjoy such wide popularity is in itself both apalling and revealing.

Precisely. What does it have to do with it? Khomeini's Islamic revolution used Palestinian/Israeli and anti-America themes to re-direct root internal sectorial feuds in order to bolster Sunni support. Sunni Wahhabists uses Palestinian/Israeli and anti-America themes to re-direct root internal sectorial feuds in order to bolster Shia support. No matter how you slice it, to the powers of Islam, whether we speak of nationalists, religious zealots, or Muslim "traitors" in office, the Palestinian struggle is very much a secondary item masking the primary Islamic mission of both sects. The greater battle for the Middle East has been playing out for thirty years through diplomacy, propaganda, brutality, and slaughter. "Palestine" as an issue is just something to use to gather alliances from either side or to downplay what the other has been and is doing.

How very Radical of you. This attitude is precisely why Islam has spent 14 centuries on the offensive into other people's lands or on the defensive back into more than what was Islam's to begin with. This is also why Islam is in the state that it is in today - a failure to admit that the greatest crimes upon Muslims have and continue to be by Muslims. The inability to leave your "infidel" neighbors alone is why Islam's crisis is one of conflicting identity.

"The great religion of Islam." What about the "great religion of Christianity?" Or the "great religion of Hinduism?" Or the "great religion of Judaism?" This is that Radical mentality you keep throwing out there, despite your claims that you are not a Radical. One who is tolerant of other cultures and religions owuld not speak as if to boast his religion as superior to others.

And how exactly has our policy failed in the Middle East? It has actually been quite successful over the last forty years. Do you even know what our policy is? Muslims in the Middle East should be thankful for our policy that has spared you the fate of Poland or Hungary, more probably that of Uzbekistan. And the true failure here is of the Muslim world to modernize in the very dark shadow of Islamic fundamentalism. You do realize that the Shia extremists and Sunni Wahhabism both share in their missions the removal and where necessary destruction of all later accretions and distortions from pure Islam?

Because Islam and its cities of importance like Baghdad and Karbala beling to the Sunni? Let's cut the crap. Your anger is shared by almost 80 percent of Islam. Sunni dominance in the region has been shaken.

There's that insatiable need to cast blame away from the Islamic world. Just like the feuding between one Palestinian organization that would dare discuss matters civiliy with Israel and another Palestinian organization who would defy anything that might bring peace in Palesitne. Those also must have some sinister conspiracy behind it just to pit Palestinians against one another. Anything but blaming Muslims for their behavior as they use "God" to justify it.

Did my eyes deceive me when I saw Hamas fighters tear down pictures of Arafat from the walls and smash them under boot? The Palesitnian flag pulled down and replaced by the green banner of Islam, thereby finally giving into Arab masters elsewhere and defining the Palestinian struggle as an Islamic fight? It took Hamas just over a week to swiftly destroy Arafat's Fatah movement in Gaza. The road to secular nationalism in Palestine gave way to exactly what Shia Radicals and Sunni Wahhabists have been wanting.

It would appear that Arafat wasn't Radical enough for today's new breed of warriors who are more interested in securing their place in heaven rather than living in peace.


I know. It has become the default position of all Radicals to identify any Muslim leader as a traitor who might smell as if he may seek Western modernization or for any kind of peace in the region that does not come from an extremist's hands.

Ah ha. Yet, just above you implied that Arafat's status as a traitor was something you have never heard of. And here you state "fug" Arafat? A man that was the emblamatic freedom fighter (and terrorist) who personified the struggle from 1960 until his death three years ago? You don't fool me. Your own words always give you away. You pretend that you don't know or that every one else has it wrong, then you proudly prove it all. I think what angers you most is that you can't get away with lying about your culture and environment with me around.

It appears to be a fact. I remind you that I know your region quite well. In the view of Islamic radicals and their extremist "martyrs," the islamic world has taken a wrong turn. Its rulers call themselves Muslims, but they are in fact apostates who have abrogated the holy law and adopted foreign and infidel laws and customs. The only solution for them, is a return to the authentic Muslim way of life, and for this the removal of apostate governments is an essential first step. This means that every Muslim state not governed by a fundamentalist or conducts business with the Western powers is branded a "traitor to Islam" or a "puppet government." Sound familiar? It should. One of the endearing historical tactics used by Islamic extremists is to label opposition or an obstacle as an "enemy of Islam," thereby securing those who are ignorant enough to jump to the "defense."

__________________

MSgt
Semper Fidelis
USMC