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The War on Error: The Ridiculous Claim that 'The Left' wants us 'To Lose'

Democrats did not vote for the war. They voted to give Bush authority to use force if necessary.

If what you are saying is true then they would have voted for the Levin Amendment which would have insured that war would only occur as the very last resort, they instead voted for the AUMF:

The Senate’s Forgotten Iraq Choice

By LINCOLN D. CHAFEE

Published: March 1, 2007
Providence, R.I.

AS the presidential primary campaigns begin in earnest, the Iraq war is overshadowing all other issues, as it did during the midterm elections. Presidential candidates who were in the Senate in October 2002 are particularly under the microscope, as they are being called upon to justify their votes for going to war.

As someone who was in the Senate at the time, I have been struck by the contours of the debate. The situation facing the candidates who cast war votes has, to my surprise, often been presented as a binary one — they could either vote for the war, or not. There was no middle ground.
On the contrary. There was indeed a third way, which Senator James Jeffords, independent of Vermont, hailed at the time as “one of the most important votes we will cast in this process.” And it was opposed by every single senator at the time who now seeks higher office.

A mere 10 hours before the roll was called on the administration-backed Iraq war resolution, the Senate had an opportunity to prevent the current catastrophe in Iraq and to salvage the United States’ international standing. Carl Levin, Democrat of Michigan, offered a substitute to the war resolution, the Multilateral Use of Force Authorization Act of 2002.
Senator Levin’s amendment called for United Nations approval before force could be authorized. It was unambiguous and compatible with international law. Acutely cognizant of the dangers of the time, and the reality that diplomatic options could at some point be exhausted, Senator Levin wrote an amendment that was nimble: it affirmed that Congress would stand at the ready to reconsider the use of force if, in the judgment of the president, a United Nations resolution was not “promptly adopted” or enforced. Ceding no rights or sovereignty to an international body, the amendment explicitly avowed America’s right to defend itself if threatened.

An opponent of the Levin amendment said that the debate was not over objectives, but tactics. And he was right. To a senator, we all had as our objectives the safety of American citizens, the security of our country and the disarming of Saddam Hussein in compliance with United Nations resolutions. But there was a steadfast core of us who believed that the tactics should be diplomacy and multilateralism, not the “go it alone” approach of the Bush doctrine.

Those of us who supported the Levin amendment argued against a rush to war. We asserted that the Iraqi regime, though undeniably heinous, did not constitute an imminent threat to United States security, and that our campaign to renew weapons inspections in Iraq — whether by force or diplomacy — would succeed only if we enlisted a broad coalition that included Arab states.

We also urged our colleagues to take seriously the admonitions of our allies in the region — Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. As King Abdullah of Jordan warned, “A miscalculation in Iraq would throw the whole area into turmoil.”

The Senate’s Forgotten Iraq Choice - New York Times


The president himself said there was a single question to be answered: Husseins weapons of mass destruction. Without those there was no war.

Everything else was fluff.

Whatever you say but the AUMF proves you're FOS, and that there were numerous reasons for the war each one as important as the next, your assertion that there was only one reason for the war is a straw man logical fallacy.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ243.107


LOL - Weekly Standard and Freerepublic

ad-Hominem logical fallacy.

vs. CIA, Pentagon, British and Israeli intellegence, DIA, Senate Select Intellegence committee etc.

Take your pick.

A) argumentum ad verecundiam appeal to authority logical fallacy

B) Pre-Docex, Pre-Docex, self described political witchunt Vs. post DOCEX disseminations and translations backed up by independent translations take your pick.


A little dust mop and those 500 20 year old bombs they found buried in the desert would've worked fine.

Binary war heads with indefinate shelf lives.
 
If what you are saying is true then they would have voted for the Levin Amendment which would have insured that war would only occur as the very last resort, they instead voted for the AUMF:

Didn't you already make this argument in this thread?

The Dems did not control congress, the Levin amendment had no chance of ever passing, the fact the Dems didn't vote for it is meaningless.


Whatever you say but the AUMF proves you're FOS, and that there were numerous reasons for the war each one as important as the next, your assertion that there was only one reason for the war is a straw man logical fallacy.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ243.107

Numerous reasons, the President himself stated only one mattered: the WMDs.

If you think the President was wrong write him a letter.

ad-Hominem logical fallacy.

Ad-hominem yes, logical fallacy no.

A) argumentum ad verecundiam appeal to authority logical fallacy

B) Pre-Docex, Pre-Docex, self described political witchunt Vs. post DOCEX disseminations and translations backed up by independent translations take your pick.

Weekly Standard and Freerepublic versus CIA, DIA, Pentagon, UK and Israeli intellegence, Senate Intellegence.

I pick the latter.

Binary war heads with indefinate shelf lives.

Repetition.
 
The ad-hominem argument as to Hayes Feith and the Weekly Standard are well justified as their claims and arguments based on speculation and error have been repeatedly debunked.

An example:

In February 2007, the Pentagon's inspector general issued a report that concluded that Feith's Office of Special Plans, an office in the Pentagon run by Douglas Feith that was the source of most of the misleading intelligence on al-Qaeda and Iraq, had "developed, produced, and then disseminated alternative intelligence assessments on the Iraq and al Qaida relationship, which included some conclusions that were inconsisent with the consensus of the Intelligence Community, to senior decision-makers." The report found that these actions were "inappropriate" though not "illegal." Senator Carl Levin, Chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee, stated that "The bottom line is that intelligence relating to the Iraq-al-Qaeda relationship was manipulated by high-ranking officials in the Department of Defense to support the administration's decision to invade Iraq. The inspector general's report is a devastating condemnation of inappropriate activities in the DOD policy office that helped take this nation to war."[1]

Office of Special Plans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

None of which dissuades the neocons for repeating their propoganda.

Nothing in my argument had anything what so ever to do with Douglas Feith; furthermore, all Feith did was disseminate raw intelligence outside the purview of the bias of the intelligence community which had already come to the pre-concieved conclusion that Saddam was "intensly secular" what they had failed to take into account is that after the first Gulf War Saddam had refashioned himself as a holy warrior of Jihad and began hosting Islamic conferences where a veritable who's who of Islamist radicals would gather from the world over.
 
Didn't you already make this argument in this thread?

The Dems did not control congress, the Levin amendment had no chance of ever passing, the fact the Dems didn't vote for it is meaningless.

What is meaningless is that they didn't control congress, they voted for the AUMF rather than the Levin Amendment which is precisely what you are claiming the AUMF was but it was not.


Numerous reasons, the President himself stated only one mattered: the WMDs.

AUMF proves you wrong, those were the reasons for the war claiming that WMD was the only one and is a strawman logical fallacy.

Ad-hominem yes, logical fallacy no.

Sorry but you can't argue an ad-hominem, admit that it's an ad-hominem, and then claim that it is not a logical fallacy, especially when my argument has nothing to do with the personal opinions of my sources but rather the DOCEX disseminations and translations contained therein.

Weekly Standard and Freerepublic versus CIA, DIA, Pentagon, UK and Israeli intellegence, Senate Intellegence.

Pre-DOCEX/Self Described partisan witchunts both of which I have dissected in full vs. Post-DOCEX



Repetition.

It bears repeating since you obviously didn't comprehend it the first time.
 
What is meaningless is that they didn't control congress, they voted for the AUMF rather than the Levin Amendment which is precisely what you are claiming the AUMF was but it was not.

The AUMF was not a referendum on attacking Iraq.

But why you would try to blame the Dems for Iraq is obvious.

AUMF proves you wrong, those were the reasons for the war claiming that WMD was the only one and is a strawman logical fallacy.

Take it up with Bush.
Sorry but you can't argue an ad-hominem, admit that it's an ad-hominem, and then claim that it is not a logical fallacy, especially when my argument has nothing to do with the personal opinions of my sources but rather the DOCEX disseminations and translations contained therein.

Sorry the but the sources that back up your claim are rabidly partisan and biased with a record of unreliability. To rely upon those sources is silly.

Pre-DOCEX/Self Described partisan witchunts both of which I have dissected in full vs. Post-DOCEX

Unauthenticated documents interpreted by partisan sources.

It bears repeating since you obviously didn't comprehend it the first time.

What is obvious is you have nothing to refute with except repeating the same old crap.
 
The AUMF was not a referendum on attacking Iraq.

But why you would try to blame the Dems for Iraq is obvious.

What's obvious is that the Dems voted for the war and even took credit for voting for that war after the war started like when we captured Saddam; furthermore, if they were voting for war only as the last resort they would have voted for the Levin Amendment not the AUMF the reason why you would try to place blame for the war soully on Bush is obvious.

Take it up with Bush.

Take it up with Congress.

Sorry the but the sources that back up your claim are rabidly partisan and biased with a record of unreliability. To rely upon those sources is silly.

My sources are disseminated and translated DOCEX documents. Try again.

Unauthenticated documents interpreted by partisan sources.

Captured Iraqi documents the most damaging of which was indepently translated by two outside sources. Furthermore; the reason why they are not authenticated is because the whole point of the DOCEX release was that there were to many documents for the intelligence community to handle on their own, if they are forgeries as you claim then prove it.
 
To Trajan:

I imagine that anyone who likens himself to a Roman Emperor while spending a woeful amount of time online in 2007, as evidenced by an extreme number of posts, would be stocked with all sorts of neat quotes to pull out to 'refute' or 'justify' anything.

Like Wikipedia, you are good with selective information but lacking in context.

If we are to play the game "Here Are My Quotations and They Are Better Than Your Quotations and Because I Spend More Time Online Collecting the Quotations That Support My Thinking I Win" we can suffer from the same paralysis that has destroyed American politics and media.

Simply throwing out what someone may have said, without providing any context for the individual's argument, plus giving no creedence to the rest of the given individual's remarks, reduces the concept of this web forum's 'debate' to just more agenda-laden soundbites which drown the actual purpose of free speech.

I lay out an argument supported by empirical facts. You condescend with some fruitless 'ahem' (or something to that effect) and then throw out a few quotes. This is not debate.

I was not speaking to defend anyone you quoted. I was simply stating that it is a falacy for individuals like you, who would never actually fight for The Right's causes, to sit in internet chat rooms and claim that to care about the lives of Americans is somehow 'unpatriotic'.

It is all 'Fun and Games' until you are driving around Fallujah, homey, so please try to refine your blanket statements about both millions of Americans and the millions of Muslims you attempt with your petty understanding of Islam to 'rope in' with the unfortunate behavior of the minority.
 
...

Captured Iraqi documents the most damaging of which was indepently translated by two outside sources. Furthermore; the reason why they are not authenticated is because the whole point of the DOCEX release was that there were to many documents for the intelligence community to handle on their own, if they are forgeries as you claim then prove it.

LOL! You can't even show me the document.

The reason the took it down was because it was so unreliable.
 
Ireimon:

My intuition tells me there is alot that Trajan cannot 'show you'.

My previous post deals with the way he attempted to refute my original post through selective use of imagery.

In the places he actually made attempts to 'analyze', I can only imagine the sources of his 'information'.


Thank you for supporting my thread.
 
To Trajan:

I imagine that anyone who likens himself to a Roman Emperor while spending a woeful amount of time online in 2007, as evidenced by an extreme number of posts, would be stocked with all sorts of neat quotes to pull out to 'refute' or 'justify' anything.

Like Wikipedia, you are good with selective information but lacking in context.

If we are to play the game "Here Are My Quotations and They Are Better Than Your Quotations and Because I Spend More Time Online Collecting the Quotations That Support My Thinking I Win" we can suffer from the same paralysis that has destroyed American politics and media.

Simply throwing out what someone may have said, without providing any context for the individual's argument, plus giving no creedence to the rest of the given individual's remarks, reduces the concept of this web forum's 'debate' to just more agenda-laden soundbites which drown the actual purpose of free speech.

I lay out an argument supported by empirical facts. You condescend with some fruitless 'ahem' (or something to that effect) and then throw out a few quotes. This is not debate.

I was not speaking to defend anyone you quoted. I was simply stating that it is a falacy for individuals like you, who would never actually fight for The Right's causes, to sit in internet chat rooms and claim that to care about the lives of Americans is somehow 'unpatriotic'.

It is all 'Fun and Games' until you are driving around Fallujah, homey, so please try to refine your blanket statements about both millions of Americans and the millions of Muslims you attempt with your petty understanding of Islam to 'rope in' with the unfortunate behavior of the minority.

Welcome to Debate Politics!
 
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