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Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace ?

robin said:
Billy have you noticed they have the philosphy that their terror is better than anyone elses's. They send rockets in to Palestinian vilages & apparently it doesn't generate terror. It justifiable. In fact it's not even terror. It's purely accidental.
This a common fallacy. What the USA is doing in Iraq is worse than the terroists. They have killed more people, but oh that's OK they are collateral damage !
Who are the latest terrorists ? UK born Kids that live in Yorkshire in UK whose parents of Pakistani origin & friends didn't even know they were terrorists. The parents are shocked & devastated.
What a waste of time, life & $250.000,000,000 the Iraq war is.
It's irrelevant as to the nature & location of the terrorists.
My wife's friend has lost his son as a victim in London.
Note how pressumptious our Jewish friends are. I'm not even female :lol:
Click to expand...

You seem to forget Robin that the figures you quote about deaths in Iraq
have been sustained over the period our troops have been at war.
What you have also failed to say is that most of the deaths you quote
23,000 i think you said; have been taken by Suicide bombers and
Islamic extremist's.Our troops are committed now.
My heart goes out to your wifes friend truly.
All sides in this conflict have been drawn into a conflict that has to stop.
How we do that who knows?
Whilst people go around bombing innocents its not going to happen.
The American and British peoples are I believe the ;slowest to anger,
but the worst to hurt.
Neither of our nations forget.
Nobody wanted war except the extremists like those who took the life
of your wifes friend's son.
We wont forget. :(
 
Windy said:
You seem to forget Robin that the figures you quote about deaths in Iraq
have been sustained over the period our troops have been at war.
What you have also failed to say is that most of the deaths you quote
23,000 i think you said; have been taken by Suicide bombers and
Islamic extremist's.Our troops are committed now.
My heart goes out to your wifes friend truly.
All sides in this conflict have been drawn into a conflict that has to stop.
How we do that who knows?
Whilst people go around bombing innocents its not going to happen.
The American and British peoples are I believe the ;slowest to anger,
but the worst to hurt.
Neither of our nations forget.
Nobody wanted war except the extremists like those who took the life
of your wifes friend's son.
We wont forget. :(
Click to expand...
Windy
But the London bombers just show how futile the war in Iraq is. They were born in UK. The terrorists are being germinated in our backyards. How is the iraq war stopping that ?
Answer it's not, it's making more hatred of the west with GITMO & Abu Chraib etc so more stupid young men will be brainwashed into blowing themselves up. You can't deal with a problem unless you deal with the cause.
If a fraction oif the $250,000,000,000 spent in iraq was instead spent on surveylance of Muslem communities to catch the extremists & the evil zealots that brainwash these men & dialogue with the moderates, then those London bombings might not have happened.
But hey... if the money was spent like that then General Dynamics, GE, Northrop etc wouldn't get their war as a kickback for supporting Bush's election campaign.
The Iraq war was sold to the public based on a pack of lies.
It's not going to help in war on terror.
It's just making them more angry & the arms manufacturers richer.
 
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robin said:
Windy but the London bombers just show how futile the war in Iraq is. They were born in UK. The terrorists are being germinated in our backyards. How is the iraq war stopping that ?
Answer it's making more hatred of the west with GITMO & Abu Chraib etc so more stupid young men will be brainwashed into blowing themselves up. You can't deal with a problem unless you deal with the cause.
If a fraction oif the $250,000,000,000 spent in iraq was instead spent on surveylance of Muslem communities & dialogue with the moderates then those London bombs might not have happened.
But hey... if the money was spent like that then General Dynamics, GE, Northrop etc wouldn't get their war as a kickback for supporting Bush's election campaign.
The Iraq war was sold to the public based on a pack of lies.
It's not going to help in war on terror.
It's just making them more angry & the arms manufacturers richer.
Click to expand...

I understand the things you are saying Robin they are all good points.
However in a previous post I asked what shall we do now?
Feeling understandably bitter as you must; at the loss of your friend
throwing blame at different factions will not help.
Whats done is done.
We can all see with insight where collectively we all went wrong.
Are we all to big to stop shouting slogans; and learn by our mistakes?
Every life that is lost; no matter what country you come from
is a tragedy.
My heart tells me what is right; but circumstances dictate my feelings.
Like all human beings I get hurt when tragedy strikes, but something
stops me from taking retribution in the way the bombers do.
I hope maybe beyond hope; that sanity will take the place of
hatred, and we can all live in peace again for the sake of future
generations.. :2wave:
 
Windy said:
I understand the things you are saying Robin they are all good points.
However in a previous post I asked what shall we do now?
Feeling understandably bitter as you must; at the loss of your friend
throwing blame at different factions will not help.
Whats done is done.
We can all see with insight where collectively we all went wrong.
Are we all to big to stop shouting slogans; and learn by our mistakes?
Every life that is lost; no matter what country you come from
is a tragedy.
My heart tells me what is right; but circumstances dictate my feelings.
Like all human beings I get hurt when tragedy strikes, but something
stops me from taking retribution in the way the bombers do.
I hope maybe beyond hope; that sanity will take the place of
hatred, and we can all live in peace again for the sake of future
generations.. :2wave:
Click to expand...
Well said ;)
Though I'm not throwing blame.. more trying to analyse how efective or ineffective a war is in Iraq as a means to stop home grown terror... Answer is totally ineffective !
 
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robin said:
Well said ;)
Though I'm not throwing blame.. more trying to analyse how efective or ineffective a war is in Iraq as a means to stop home grown terror... Answer is totally ineffective !
Click to expand...

I can see where you are coming from; good for you
the only way to find answers is by talking
like you and I.
we haven't done so bad have we?
We've got no answers but its a start.
Why cant politicians do the same?
 
I think there is hope where there is dialogue. The communities must have dialogue. That way the Muslim community of Britain will be more likely to expose extremists in their ranks. Lets not forget 99.9% of UK muslims are outraged by what has happened. The overwhelming majority are enterprising hard working people that just want to go about their lives & caring for their families & believe in the moral codes of the Koran including, you should not kill.
However, just like any other religion, they have their minority of extremists like Christians & Jews have their Debate junkies & superskippys. It's those & the Bin Ladens of this world we need to deal with. Almost everyone else wants peace.
What the UK should NOT now do is go bomb & invade a muslim country that had nothing to do with the London bombings or 911.
Uhhhh.. Oh dear... we already have. Thanks a bunch Blair !
 
Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace

robin said:
I think there is hope where there is dialogue. The communities must have dialogue. That way the Muslim community of Britain will be more likely to expose extremists in their ranks. Lets not forget 99.9% of UK muslims are outraged by what has happened. The overwhelming majority are enterprising hard working people that just want to go about their lives & caring for their families & believe in the moral codes of the Koran including, you should not kill.
However, just like any other religion, they have their minority of extremists like Christians & Jews have their Debate junkies & superskippys. It's those & the Bin Ladens of this world we need to deal with. Almost everyone else wants peace.
Click to expand...

wait a second. I agree with you about the muslim community, but don't you realize that you are comparing people on debatepolitics that you don't even know to religious fanatical maniacs like Osama Bin Laden? That's ridiculous! Unless you know something about these people that I don't, I suggest you re-examine what you said.
 
robin said:
I think there is hope where there is dialogue. The communities must have dialogue. That way the Muslim community of Britain will be more likely to expose extremists in their ranks. Lets not forget 99.9% of UK muslims are outraged by what has happened. The overwhelming majority are enterprising hard working people that just want to go about their lives & caring for their families & believe in the moral codes of the Koran including, you should not kill.
However, just like any other religion, they have their minority of extremists like Christians & Jews have their Debate junkies & superskippys. It's those & the Bin Ladens of this world we need to deal with. Almost everyone else wants peace.
What the UK should NOT now do is go bomb & invade a muslim country that had nothing to do with the London bombings or 911.
Uhhhh.. Oh dear... we already have. Thanks a bunch Blair !
Click to expand...




It's sick liberal thinking like this that the head choppers like.... but there's no talkling to liberals since they are so much smarter then the rest of us... Hey Robin, Since you love head-chopping Muslims so much, go to the middle east & see how much they love you....
 
It's allright, Robin has very little real concept when it comes to debating as I have seen thus far, he lacks... how shall I say this... a sense of historical facts. He knows little of what is really going on in the world and is content to spew forth his won version of events without responding to any argument against his own viewpoints. As he has so aptly abandoned so many of his points in the debate thus far, he has by defacto conceded them. He knows he is wrong a lot of the time, you can tell when he changes subjects to something irrelivent to the past several pages of posts.

He is entertaining I will grant him that.
 
tr1414 where did I say headchopping Muslims should not be dealt with ?
They are disgusting wicked people, but that doesn't mean one should label all Muslims that way. What do they have to do with the average Muslim ?
Every race & creed have psycopaths in their midst. Manson, Bundy, Nixon, Kissenger, Oli North, Bin Laden, Sharon, Arafat.
Bush & Blair in many ways. They've ordered a war in a country that didn't commit the 911 atrocity & didn't have WMD on the scale claimed.

Skippy you have'nt dealt with my comment on the fact you did get massive aid from USA which you spent on arms, so why are the Palestinians not entitled to spend it on arms. If you do why can't they ?
Maybe neither of you should have spent it on arms !
 
Skippy you haven't dealt with my comment on the fact you did get massive aid from USA which you spent on arms, so why are the Palestinians not entitled to spend it on arms. If you do why can't they ?
Maybe neither of you should have spent it on arms !

For one thing I addressed it, it is not AID, it is US grant money given to us because were are the Americans Ally. Israel has never needed "aid" money, our early economy got shaped and cemented by the German reparations. Also as I said your article lumps together some 11 billion in privately raised money over the years, the rest is US grant money and 120 million dollars after Israels founding. The US gave us a total of 40 billion over the course of 60 years to improve our military and buy new equipment. In case I did not make it clear to you, IT WAS GRANT MONEY. You know like the money the US doles out to it's other alliance members like England, and Germany. The Palestinians received aid money under the express concept it would be used to bolster failing schools, build roads, house the Palestinians, and feed them. Instead Arafat brought in Katyusha rocket batteries and shoulder mounted RPG's.

Also another thing I will say, of the 40 billion the US has given us in the course of 60 years, we have bought over 70 billion in military hardware from the US, and closer to 12 billion from France. Also guess who one of the few nations are that still buy treasury bonds from the US? Israel.

The posts I referred to I can still post up again would you like that? There is quite a few, since you lacked the nerve to respond it would seem.
 
superskippy said:
Why do you hate America so much?
Click to expand...

I don't hate America. How can you hate a country ?
Individuals are good or bad, not whole nations.
However I do dislike Americans that order or carry out these kinds of activities just as much as I dislike Muslims that carry out wicked acts or policies:-
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html http://corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=11
http://www.omnicenter.org/warpeacecollection/dictators.htm
http://www.parascope.com/articles/0397/kubark04.htm
http://www.soaw.org/new/
http://pilger.carlton.com/
U.S. State Department Policy Planning Study #23, 1948:
" Our real task... is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity [U.S. military- economic supremacy]... To do so, we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and day-dreaming... We should cease to talk about vague and...unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization... we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better."
George Kennan, Director of Policy Planning. U.S. State Department. 1948
 
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superskippy said:
For one thing I addressed it, it is not AID, it is US grant money given to us because were are the Americans Ally
Click to expand...

How childish like school children... Ooh they are my friend but not your's !
What have you ever done for America ?... nothing.
Grant money... Aid money... different label for the same thing.
Why are you America's ally ?
America favours you becuase you have influential rich Jews like Kissenger in USA & Palestinians don't. That bias in US M.East policy is the root of so much resentment & trouble including a partial cause of 911.
You know the one thing that gets me about this. Those rich Jews that shape polices from thousands of miles away go on about being Jewish & having a Jewish homeland then they decide they aren't going to go live there !
Yes that's right... they say 'take away someone else's land' so they can have a homeland... then they don't live there.
Christ they are so obsessed with the Jewish tribal thing !
Jews mutilate genitals of their young males so as to brand them for the Jewish tribe.... arrogant & ridiculous primitive s**t.
They say money is the root of all evil, well if it is then tribalistic religious bullshit is a close second. You are the same friggin race as Arabs for God's sake. WTF can't you live in peace ?
 
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How childish like school children... Ooh they are my friend but not your's !
What have you ever done for America ?... nothing.
Why are you America's ally ?
America favours you becuase you have influential rich Jews like Kissenger in USA & Palestinians don't. That bias in US M.East policy is the root of so much resentment & trouble including a partial cause of 911.
You know the one thing that gets me about this. Those rich Jews that shape polices from thousands of miles away go on about being Jewish & having a Jewish homeland then they decide they aren't going to go live there !
Yes... they say 'take away someone else's land' so they can have a homeland... then they don't live there.
Christ they are so obsessed with the Jewish tribal thing !

Yes we are the Americans friends, Mossed trains their CIA agents, and our Special Forces teach their special forces the art and skill of covert warfare. We are a bloc of support in the UN when need be, we house American ships in our ports when need be, we fly spy missions for them over Arab nations. We do plenty of things for them, and I forget what was the last thing France did for the US in the past century... none the less they are still allies.

America favours you becuase you have influential rich Jews like Kissenger in USA & Palestinians don't.
Jews mutilate genitals of their young males so as to brand for the Jewish tribe.... arrogant & ridiculous.


Just so you don't go off with your insane idea's and utter stupidity that seems to inhabit your head I will fill you in. The "Rich Jews" do not dictate American policy, they don't control the American government and have no interest in doing so. What they do is raise money, and they raise immigration quotas. Henry Kissinger was a great secretary of state, he influenced peace treaties, and peace deals in the Middle East an in Vietnam. Also he has been out of office in excess of 20 years. The rich Arabs virtually have the ear of every nation in Europe save England, they manage to eke out condemnations even today.


Yes... they say 'take away someone else's land' so they can have a homeland... then they don't live there.

Again you show how very little you know about the founding of Israel, and Palestine. The Palestinians also got a state for the first time in the history of man. But their hatred for the Jew's forced them to lose their land. Learn history Robin and give up your senseless arguments.


America favours you becuase you have influential rich Jews like Kissenger in USA & Palestinians don't.
Jews mutilate genitals of their young males so as to brand for the Jewish tribe.... arrogant & ridiculous.

You are overtly an Anti-Semite.
 
robin said:
How childish like school children... Ooh they are my friend but not your's !
What have you ever done for America ?... nothing.
Grant money... Aid money... different label for the same thing.
Why are you America's ally ?
America favours you becuase you have influential rich Jews like Kissenger in USA & Palestinians don't. That bias in US M.East policy is the root of so much resentment & trouble including a partial cause of 911.
You know the one thing that gets me about this. Those rich Jews that shape polices from thousands of miles away go on about being Jewish & having a Jewish homeland then they decide they aren't going to go live there !
Yes that's right... they say 'take away someone else's land' so they can have a homeland... then they don't live there.
Christ they are so obsessed with the Jewish tribal thing !
Jews mutilate genitals of their young males so as to brand them for the Jewish tribe.... arrogant & ridiculous primitive s**t.
They say money is the root of all evil, well if it is then tribalistic religious bullshit is a close second. You are the same friggin race as Arabs for God's sake. WTF can't you live in peace ?
Click to expand...

Well, let's leave all that other claptrap alone and just deal with the bold stuff. There are several reasons they don't get along. Just as the Chinese and Taiwanese, just as the Irish and the English, just as the North and the South, just as the English and the French, or the Spanish and the Basques. Sometimes neighbors with different ideologies just don't get along. And then something happens that escalates it to a violent end. Real or imagined. It is a part of life. War happens. It's never going to stop. Best thing is to just make sure you are one the winning side.
 
superskippy said:
You are overtly an Anti-Semite.
Click to expand...

No just overtly anti mutilation of babies.
As regards Kissengers & peace ha ha ha ha
He & Nixon sabotaged the Paris Nam peace talks so as to scupper LBJ's chances. result war continued for years & hundreds of thousands more died.
Kissinger is the most evil conniving slime ball.
Nice what he engineered in Chile ay ?
Here we have a Jew who is naturally anti Nazi... then he backs a coup to install a fascist dictator Pinochet in Chile.

Read the links yet in my 7.26 post ?
oh of course... what's the point.. they are all anti US propaganda & not truth !
 
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No just overtly anti mutilation of babies.

It is the heritage of my people, as it has been one for over 2,500 years. You dont give a damned about baby genital mutilation you have proven time and time again you are an Anti-Semite.

As regards Kissengers & peace ha ha ha ha
He & Nixon sabotaged the Paris Nam peace talks so as to scupper LBJ's chances. result war continued for years & hundreds of thousands more died.

Sabotage? The Vietnamese wanted total control of South Vietnam, those were not terms the US could agree to. It had nothing to do with LBJ, he doesnt seem to think so at least, read LBJ's auto-biography.

Read the links yet in my 7.26 post ?
oh of course... what's the point.. they are all anti US propaganda & not truth !

I have know idea what 7.26 post is, so if you would be so kind as to repost the link. Also almost every link you have shown is utter BS. Just like you.

It's not about it being propgeganda, it's about you being a compulsive Jew hating, US hating, person. You post crap links and when people shoot your arguments down you move onto the next train of thought that cames into your head. If it can even be called that.
 
Heritage or not... it's mutilation. It's tribalistic nonsense.
I don't hate America. How can you hate a country ?
Individuals are good or bad, not whole nations.
However I do dislike Americans that order or carry out these kinds of activities just as much as I dislike Muslims that carry out wicked acts or policies:-
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/B...ons_WBlumZ.html http://corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=11
http://www.omnicenter.org/warpeacec...n/dictators.htm
http://www.parascope.com/articles/0397/kubark04.htm
http://www.soaw.org/new/
http://pilger.carlton.com/
U.S. State Department Policy Planning Study #23, 1948:
" Our real task... is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity [U.S. military- economic supremacy]... To do so, we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and day-dreaming... We should cease to talk about vague and...unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization... we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better."
George Kennan, Director of Policy Planning. U.S. State Department. 1948
 
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Ok 3 of those links are broken, 2 of them prove nothing and say nothing, http://corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=11 http://www.soaw.org/new/

The only link that tries to support any arguments that you havent made is http://pilger.carlton.com/ which is an liberal activist film maker, who's political opinion carry no weight with me.

Heritage or not... it's mutilation. It's tribalistic nonsense.

It is not, it even has health benafits, you will expectently live an average of 14-20 hours of healthy living over someone who has not been cirumsised, it protects better against many diseases and many doctors even recommend it at birth. Not only Jew's do it, as it is a healthy choice in many respects, many people that are not Jew's do it on doctors reccomendation.

It insults me that you consider the Jewish people a tribe, Fine then in your opinion are the Muslims and Chrisitians a Tribe? They better be for your argument to carry any weight. Which is very rare for you.

Again you have disregarded my past posts and have switched the topic yet again. You have be default conceded virtually every point you have tried to make in this debate. If we can even call it that anymore.
 
14 hours extra life in 75 years. What's that worth & how could anyone possibly have proved such a tiny statistical effect ?
& yes if you aren't a tribe what are you ?
The Jewish tribe that just follow another load of religious gobbldy gook. Religion = a virus of the mind.
Pilgers politics don't interest you ! That's the whole point... he's above politics. He's showing how people are pawns in politics & are mere commodities & some are collateral damage in USA protecting her multi national corps & interests.
The tone was set by George Kennan. Do you deny he had that chauvinistic attitude to any non american countries, in other words the rest of the world.
Now read & learn about the side of the USA you can't accept you spiteful ostrich.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com
 
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Robin, having failed to answer any one of the last few pages responses to your ridiculous arguments, I have decided to end this debate with you.
 
14 hours extra life in 75 years. What's that worth & how could anyone possibly have proved such a tiny statistical effect ?
& yes if you aren't a tribe what are you ?
The Jewish tribe that just follow another load of religious gobbldy gook. Religion = a virus of the mind.
Jewish this, Jewish that, Jewishness, Jewery, ... why don't you try to think outside the Jewish mindset & get out more to places that are non Jewish & meet more people that are non Jewish learn about non Jewish ideas & eat non Jewish food & read non Jewish books & learn about non Jewish philosophies. Just inside you there might just be a whole load of non Jewishiness... the real you, trying to get out. After all you weren't born spouting Jewish religion & Jewish nationalism. You were born innocent & pure... a blank sheet. You were brainwashed & branded a Jew by the by people around you. Jewishness is an affectation like all religions. You are genetically the same as Palestinians.
Before you think I'm being anti semitic I could say just the same about Islam & Islamness. It's all religious twaddle. Science is the only way to truth.
 
robin said:
14 hours extra life in 75 years. What's that worth & how could anyone possibly have proved such a tiny statistical effect ?
& yes if you aren't a tribe what are you ?
The Jewish tribe that just follow another load of religious gobbldy gook. Religion = a virus of the mind.
Pilgers politics don't interest you ! That's the whole point... he's above politics. He's showing how people are pawns in politics & are mere commodities & some are collateral damage in USA protecting her multi national corps & interests.
The tone was set by George Kennan. Do you deny he had that chauvinistic attitude to any non american countries, in other words the rest of the world.
Now read & learn about the side of the USA you can't accept you spiteful ostrich.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com
Click to expand...

This might seem a stupid question Robin and
you have every right not to answer
Are you a Muslim? it would probably help make sense
of some of the thing you have been saying :confused:
 
But Jews aren't a different race from Arabs or do you think you are ?
You are being racist then.
Besides I'm being religionist, not racist.
 
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