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Thread: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace ?

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    Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah
    (Grammatical corrections bolded)

    Typically, you are nebulous here and do not statistically break down Vietnamese civilian war deaths by region (North/South) or causation (Viet Cong-NVA/ARVN/USA). You simply make an unsubstanciated claim and infer that all deaths related to this claim are causal to US forces.

    You use the term *systematically* which necessitates an overarching pre-meditation and a systemic modus operandi. Can you point me to even one legitimate document that concurs with your inexplicable indictment?

    You also use the transitive verb *extermination* which is reserved for a thorough elimination of life forms, with genocide being the applicable term for human extermination. Clearly, you are attempting to equate civilian deaths in Vietnam with a purposeful and legitimate genocidal event (ie. the Holocaust, Armenia, Rwanda, Cambodia etc.). Horiffic events such as these do not linger on the mere edge of perception. They are well documented events that are rewarded with the revulsion of both history and humanity.

    As in the other thread where we clashed, I remind you that regardless of your agenda, patronizing attitude, and low estimation of others in this community... there are oodles of bright and intelligent folks here who have the capacity and wherewithal to uncover and expose your anti-American expeditions into willful subterfuge and wanton deception.
    verbiage, Verbiage Verbiage. I'm glad you think my grammar is the issue more important that a million dead. I think are doing that patronisation. This stuff is rattled off as in conversation. It's not a book what difference does the odd typo or gramatical error make.
    What difference is there between carpet bombing Hanoi or dropping Dioxin in forest with villages & sticking some Jews in a room & emptying a cannister of Zyclon B in it ?
    It kills innocent people either way. It's all a disgusting crime against humanity & as always driven by some blind faith in a flag or that's one's country is always right just like the Nazis thought they were right.
    The cause in Nam could not justify what was done there. Truman should have listened to Minn in 1945 & let the Vietnamese become a western friendly democracy from brutal French Rule. Big big big big mistake that he ignored Minn's letters pleas for help. Nam could have been as sweet as S Korea.
    Last edited by robin; 07-11-05 at 07:11 PM.

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    Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace ?

    Quote Originally Posted by robin
    verbiage, Verbiage Verbiage. I'm glad you think my grammar is the issue more important that a million dead. I think are doing that patronisation. This stuff is rattled off as in conversation. It's not a book what difference does the odd typo or gramatical error make.
    What difference is there between carpet bombing Hanoi or dropping Dioxin in forest with villages & sticking some Jews in a room & emptying a cannister of Zyclon B in it ?
    It kills innocent people either way. It's all a disgusting crime against humanity & as always driven by some blind faith in a flag or that's one's country is always right just like the Nazis thought they were right.
    The cause in Nam could not justify what was done there. Truman should have listened to Minn in 1945 & let the Vietnamese become a western friendly democracy from brutal French Rule. Big big big big mistake that he ignored Minn's letters pleas for help. Nam could have been as sweet as S Korea.
    If you don't there is a difference between bombing Hanoi and pushing crowds of woman and children and men into a room and then gassing them, then incinerating their corpses in an oven, then there is something sick and wrong with you. The bombing against Hanoi was part of war, just like the NVA shelling of cities in the Tet offensive. What the Americans were doing was industrialized warfare, what the Nazi's did was industrialized murder. Don't ever try to compare them. The Vietnam War was just that a war, and as a result people died, Hanoi a center of arms production and center of the NVA was a clear target, and as the war progressed and the last leg the NVA stood on was the mass of farms they had we decided to take those down. It's basic military tactics, take out the line of supply to the enemy and he shall fall. Vietnam was nearly won, and if it had been won maybe it would have been as sweet as the fruits borne by South Korea. If you remember the US had just spent hundreds of thousands of it's sons to liberate France and Europe, they were not going to throw France to the wind so soon after WW2. Also there was serous concern that France and England would fall apart after WW2 and France nearly did with bloody revolts in Algeria, and all of it's SE Asia colonies, as well as a homeland in ruins. Also don't act like the NVA were so nice and peachy, I have seen the videos of what they did to captured US soldiers, I have heard first hand accounts of the horror of their torture. They were fiends.

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    Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace ?

    Quote Originally Posted by superskippy
    If you don't there is a difference between bombing Hanoi and pushing crowds of woman and children and men into a room and then gassing them, then incinerating their corpses in an oven, then there is something sick and wrong with you. The bombing against Hanoi was part of war, just like the NVA shelling of cities in the Tet offensive. What the Americans were doing was industrialized warfare, what the Nazi's did was industrialized murder. Don't ever try to compare them. The Vietnam War was just that a war, and as a result people died, Hanoi a center of arms production and center of the NVA was a clear target, and as the war progressed and the last leg the NVA stood on was the mass of farms they had we decided to take those down. It's basic military tactics, take out the line of supply to the enemy and he shall fall. Vietnam was nearly won, and if it had been won maybe it would have been as sweet as the fruits borne by South Korea. If you remember the US had just spent hundreds of thousands of it's sons to liberate France and Europe, they were not going to throw France to the wind so soon after WW2. Also there was serous concern that France and England would fall apart after WW2 and France nearly did with bloody revolts in Algeria, and all of it's SE Asia colonies, as well as a homeland in ruins. Also don't act like the NVA were so nice and peachy, I have seen the videos of what they did to captured US soldiers, I have heard first hand accounts of the horror of their torture. They were fiends.
    Arrogance beyond belief !
    You think a bomb with stars & stripes painted on it killing women & children is fine then. You are insane. You are as callous as a Nazi. If you are a jew in that case you need to take a close look at yourself. As regards what the NVA did to your troops in THEIR country.... I saw a programme about pinkville massacre. Your troops well I can't say it... the precise details about how they raped 13 tear olds in THEIR country. It's too bad to say what they did. The guys involved.. GI witness's interviewed on film. Do you think you were the nice guys napalming villages or gooks as your pilots called them. Why did they bomb them.... there may have been communists there.
    They'd been living there in peace for decades minding their own ****ing business then you arrogant murderers come along & bomb them just cos they might be commies. 20 minutes & the village raised to the earth like Hitler's barbarosa in Russia. You are a ****ing retard if you cannot see the immorality of that. All done in the name of the great freedoms on offer from the West. Then after you got your arrogant ass's rightfully kicked out of their country, communism didn't spread throughout Indo China did it ?
    What a waste of life & money that war was. How evil... how ****ing absurd.
    Last edited by robin; 07-12-05 at 03:48 AM.

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    Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace ?

    Quote Originally Posted by robin
    Arrogance beyond belief !
    You think a bomb with stars & stripes painted on it killing women & children is fine then. You are insane. You are as callous as a Nazi. If you are a jew in that case you need to take a close look at yourself. As regards what the NVA did to your troops in THEIR country.... I saw a programme about pinkville massacre. Your troops well I can't say it... the precise details about how they raped 13 tear olds in THEIR country. It's too bad to say what they did. The guys involved.. GI witness's interviewed on film. Do you think you were the nice guys napalming villages or gooks as your pilots called them. Why did they bomb them.... there may have been communists there.
    They'd been living there in peace for decades minding their own ****ing business then you arrogant murderers come along & bomb them just cos they might be commies. 20 minutes & the village raised to the earth like Hitler's barbarosa in Russia. You are a ****ing retard if you cannot see the immorality of that. All done in the name of the great freedoms on offer from the West. Then after you got your arrogant ass's rightfully kicked out of their country, communism didn't spread throughout Indo China did it ?
    What a waste of life & money that war was. How evil... how ****ing absurd.
    You know, you should believe everything you see on TV or read off the internet.

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    Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace ?

    Quote Originally Posted by robin
    Arrogance beyond belief !
    You think a bomb with stars & stripes painted on it killing women & children is fine then. You are insane. You are as callous as a Nazi. If you are a jew in that case you need to take a close look at yourself. As regards what the NVA did to your troops in THEIR country.... I saw a programme about pinkville massacre. Your troops well I can't say it... the precise details about how they raped 13 tear olds in THEIR country. It's too bad to say what they did. The guys involved.. GI witness's interviewed on film. Do you think you were the nice guys napalming villages or gooks as your pilots called them. Why did they bomb them.... there may have been communists there.
    They'd been living there in peace for decades minding their own ****ing business then you arrogant murderers come along & bomb them just cos they might be commies. 20 minutes & the village raised to the earth like Hitler's barbarosa in Russia. You are a ****ing retard if you cannot see the immorality of that. All done in the name of the great freedoms on offer from the West. Then after you got your arrogant ass's rightfully kicked out of their country, communism didn't spread throughout Indo China did it ?
    What a waste of life & money that war was. How evil... how ****ing absurd.

    Robin, you are a over age hippy. The only retard here is YOU. I think you make these stupid posts just to hear yourself talk & make people made. Your the kind of person that has no life.
    And you don't know what the hell your talking about. Communism didn't spread to Loas & Cambodia? You are fulled with self-hate & hate for America. The best part of your day must be when people get so sick of the bull**** you post that we have to respond to you. Have another bon-bon & make it back to your room before bed-check. You need help.

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    Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace

    Quote Originally Posted by robin
    ... you arrogant murderers...
    You are a ****ing retard
    Where are the moderators on this dude?
    I know you guys allow a lot in the name of free speech and discussion/debate... but is it tolerable to directly insult someone like that! Or to say one's religion is all in their head? YOu can believe this, you can debate it, but to just flat out say, you are an idiot for your beliefs...(?)

    just askin
    The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless and yet be determined to make them otherwise.--F. Scott Fitzgerald

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    Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace ?

    Quote Originally Posted by robin
    Arrogance beyond belief !
    You think a bomb with stars & stripes painted on it killing women & children is fine then. You are insane. You are as callous as a Nazi. If you are a jew in that case you need to take a close look at yourself. As regards what the NVA did to your troops in THEIR country.... I saw a programme about pinkville massacre. Your troops well I can't say it... the precise details about how they raped 13 tear olds in THEIR country. It's too bad to say what they did. The guys involved.. GI witness's interviewed on film. Do you think you were the nice guys napalming villages or gooks as your pilots called them. Why did they bomb them.... there may have been communists there.
    They'd been living there in peace for decades minding their own ****ing business then you arrogant murderers come along & bomb them just cos they might be commies. 20 minutes & the village raised to the earth like Hitler's barbarosa in Russia. You are a ****ing retard if you cannot see the immorality of that. All done in the name of the great freedoms on offer from the West. Then after you got your arrogant ass's rightfully kicked out of their country, communism didn't spread throughout Indo China did it ?
    What a waste of life & money that war was. How evil... how ****ing absurd.
    Still you don't seem to understand the difference between Industrialized Murder, and Industrialized war, which is what the bombing of an enemy combatants city entails. I never said I never saw immorality in the death of civilians or some of the atrocities committed by US soldiers (and NVA mostly.), all I said was that there is a difference from shoving all of my grandfathers family into a gas chamber and then burning their corpses, and bombing the city of Hanoi.

    They'd been living there in peace for decades minding their own ****ing business then you arrogant murderers come along & bomb them just cos they might be commies.

    The Vietnamese had been fighting an insurgency against the French for decades and with the advent of communism the rebellion got larger and the communist forces gained the upper hand. Also you seem to get the impression that my country bombed Vietnam and that my people were murderers there, last time I checked my nation has never been to Vietnam.

    You think a bomb with stars & stripes painted on it killing women & children is fine then. You are insane. You are as callous as a Nazi. If you are a Jew in that case you need to take a close look at yourself. As regards what the NVA did to your troops in THEIR country.... I saw a programme about pinkville massacre. Your troops well I can't say it... the precise details about how they raped 13 tear olds in THEIR country. It's too bad to say what they did. The guys involved.. GI witness's interviewed on film. Do you think you were the nice guys napalming villages or gooks as your pilots called them. Why did they bomb them.... there may have been communists there.

    How dare you call me as callous as a Nazi, I lack my entire family from my grandfathers side and half of my mothers because of what they did. My family line is dying out, there are 6 of us left from the 27 at the start of 1939. You have no concept of history, war or what the Nazi's did. Be silent.

    So because the NVA were in their own country they had the right to rip off US soldiers thumbs with pliers and torture them until they went completely insane or killed them? So if you come to my country I can take out my screwdriver and start wrenching out teeth? Use logic before you start ranting.

    US soldiers napalmed villages and stretches of forest without even knowing half the time what they were hitting, Vietnamese villages are not exactly the biggest or easiest thing to see from several thousand feet and within miles of dense forest. Also the NVA sheltered themselves in the villages and gather recruits from them, it was the NVA line of supply and Hanoi was the kingpin. Also it was not THEIR country when they invaded South Vietnam.

    I have a few things to say to you. 1. Your a pompous ass who knows little to nothing about the Nazi's or Vietnam. 2. You don't need to rant and curse to get your point across it makes you look like an angry twelve year old. 3. Read a few history books. 4. Figure out that I'm not an American as you so lovingly refer to in your rant.

    If you can respond to my post in a civilized manner, with out going off on a tangent of cursing like a child, then feel free to respond I would be glad to debate you then.

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    Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robin
    ... you arrogant murderers...You are a ****ing retard
    Quote Originally Posted by tr1414
    Robin, you are a over age hippy. The only retard here is YOU.
    MODERATOR GAVEL

    Hey gang, let's knock off the personal attacks. If I missed anyone else attacking, spank yourself for me.

    /MODERATOR GAVEL

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    Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace ?

    Quote Originally Posted by superskippy
    Still you don't seem to understand the difference between Industrialized Murder, and Industrialized war, which is what the bombing of an enemy combatants city entails. I never said I never saw immorality in the death of civilians or some of the atrocities committed by US soldiers (and NVA mostly.), all I said was that there is a difference from shoving all of my grandfathers family into a gas chamber and then burning their corpses, and bombing the city of Hanoi.

    They'd been living there in peace for decades minding their own ****ing business then you arrogant murderers come along & bomb them just cos they might be commies.

    The Vietnamese had been fighting an insurgency against the French for decades and with the advent of communism the rebellion got larger and the communist forces gained the upper hand..
    So are you saying they weren't entitled to be free fron a brutal French colonial rule ? The US installed a despot dictator in South Nam. Great way to fight for democracy eh.
    Quote Originally Posted by superskippy
    How dare you call me as callous as a Nazi, I lack my entire family from my grandfathers side and half of my mothers because of what they did. My family line is dying out, there are 6 of us left from the 27 at the start of 1939. You have no concept of history, war or what the Nazi's did. Be silent...
    Here we go... the classic hard done by Jew. His family were all killed. That is an absolute tragedy I agree. It was utterly disgusting & wicked what the Nazis did. I've watched as many if not more accounts of the holocaust than you. But then the classic line so it's OK for the Americans.. our allies to kill millions around the world with their meddling in other countries affairs becuase they are upholding democracy & will help avoid more holocausts. What you forget is the USA has backed neo nazi regimes around the world especially in the Americas.
    The US cherry picked all the Frankenstien Nazis like Von Braun that were of any use to them regardless of Pina Munda.
    The Nazis that escaped never did better than under the fascists tyrants installed by the CIA in the Americas.

    Quote Originally Posted by superskippy
    So because the NVA were in their own country they had the right to rip off US soldiers thumbs with pliers and torture them until they went completely insane or killed them? So if you come to my country I can take out my screwdriver and start wrenching out teeth? Use logic before you start ranting.
    US soldiers napalmed villages and stretches of forest without even knowing half the time what they were hitting, Vietnamese villages are not exactly the biggest or easiest thing to see from several thousand feet and within miles of dense forest. Also the NVA sheltered themselves in the villages and gather recruits from them, it was the NVA line of supply and Hanoi was the kingpin. Also it was not THEIR country when they invaded South Vietnam.
    Yes of course torture is wrong... So is being present & meddling in someone else's country 6k miles from your own. So was Pinkville massacre against non combatants I might add.
    As regards carpet bombing.. If they couldnt' see whether they were bombing enemy or civillians then they shouldn't have bombed then should they. Even when they knew it was civillians they bombed. There is a well known UK journalist Max Hastings. He covered the Nam war. Went up in skyhawk jets. The pilots just napalmed villages whilly nilly saying 'oh they are only gooks' there'. Remind you of something.. eh ?
    Nazis bombing & torching Russian villages on the grounds that there were only Jews & slavs there.
    Finally get the **** out of Palestinian lands & get back to the pre 67 border & stop treating them like ***** then they might stop bombing you. Violence begats violence.
    Last edited by robin; 07-12-05 at 04:28 PM.

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    Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace ?

    So are you saying they weren't entitled to be free fron a brutal French colonial rule ? The US installed a despot dictator in South Nam. Great way to fight for democracy eh.

    For one I never said that I simply pointed out your view on that historical fact was incorrect.

    [I]Here we go... the classic hard done by Jew. His family were all killed. That is an absolute tragedy I agree. It was utterly disgusting & wicked what the Nazis did. I've watched as many if not more accounts of the holocaust than you.

    So you have seen video's and accounts of the death camps. How many people do you know that died there? Don't be so arrogant as to assume that because you have seen videos of the slaughter of my people that it makes you an expert.

    But then the classic line so it's OK for the Americans.. our allies to kill millions around the world with their meddling in other countries affairs because they are upholding democracy & will help avoid more holocausts. What you forget is the USA has backed neo Nazi regimes around the world especially in the Americas.

    Ah the Contra war against the Sandestina's? If you recall the Contras were not Neo Nazi regimes nor were the fascist. They were a disaffected political group within Nicaragua. That the US government supplied arms to so they could fight the communist regime there.

    The US cherry picked all the Frankenstein Nazis like Von Braun that were of any use to them regardless of Pina Munda.

    And the Russians got Herbert Valfen and countless other scientists. The west took what they could and the Soviets took what they could. We were on the edge of a long stand off and everyone knew it and wanted the best edge they could get. Also the Americans deported almost all of the Nazi's once they were through with them, and as of late they have set up an agency to find the ones that are left so that they can be deported as well.


    Yes of course torture is wrong... So is being present & meddling in someone else's country 6k miles from your own. So was Pinkville massacre against non combatants I might add.

    I'll say again I don't condone massacres, nor do I condone rape as you imply. Also the war in Vietnam was fought to back up the Democratic government of South Vietnam against the Communist invasion from the North. Do you remember the videos of thousands of people trying to flee and escape the Vietnamese after they overran the SVA? The Americans left them to fight alone and in the end they were crushed and are now under the boot of the North Vietnamese. That is one of the few wrongs I see with the American intervention in Vietnam.

    As regards carpet bombing.. If they couldn't see whether they were bombing enemy or civilians then they shouldn't have bombed then should they.

    Have you ever been to Vietnam or any SE Asian county for that matter? The reason the Vietcong survived was because of the dense jungles that covered the villages and bases. It was damn near impossible to find the targets but they knew the Vietcong were in the forests in the thousands and they wanted to kill them. Thats how war works like it or not.

    Even when they knew it was civilians they bombed. There is a well known UK journalist Max Hastings. He covered the Nam war. Went up in skyhawk jets. The pilots just napalmed villages whilly nilly saying 'oh they are only gooks' there'. Remind you of something.. eh ?

    Well for one thing I would never base my entire belief of Vietnam because of the report of a Journalist. Don you even know how the Vietcong survived? They had the support of the local villages and hid there as bases. They were bases, recruitment centers, and arms depots.

    Nazis bombing & torching Russian villages on the grounds that there were only Jews & Slavs there.

    Yeah ya know I'm getting sick of your referrals from the US action and Vietnam and the whole sale slaughter of 13 million people at the hands of the Nazi's. You have little grasp for history and seemingly little grasp on reality.

    Finally get the **** out of Palestinian lands & get back to the pre 67 border & stop treating them like ***** then they might stop bombing you. Violence begats violence.

    I'm guessing you have never, ever been to Israel or even the Gaza Strip or West Bank in your whole life. Don't talk of things you have little understanding for, which in your case is a lot. The Palestinians don't deserve the pre 1967 borders. The Arabs not the Jew's launched the first attack in 1948, and the Arabs mobilized for war before the 1967 war which forced us to strike first. Violence begat's violence? Well then we will have to accept it and kill them faster than they kill us. And we are getting damn good at it after 60 years. Peace will not come from ceding land, the Palestinians want us gone completely and that will not happen while the Jews still hold Israel. We will not be driven into the sea.

    Also once again you refrain to ramblings and excessive cursing in what is supposed to be a civilized debate. You look like an angry child when you do that, so for your own sake act more mature.

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