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Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace ?

robin said:
Of course they were 'Muslim'. But how is fighting a war 6k miles away going to deal with the monsters growing in our backyards ?
How are Abu Ghraib & GITMO doing anything to reduce anti US sentiment ?
The evil clerics & imams must be rubbing their hands with glee when they see images of your troops torturing Muslims.

when they're sawing our troops heads off with combat knive's, i really dont think the tabloid-esque AG and Gitmo stories are going to have much impact on them. and how is fighting the Taliban going to help our problems here? cutting something out at the source is the best solution to a problem. when your roof leaks, would you rather patch the hole or hold a bucket under it? besides, too many people dont realize the lengths we go to in order to eliminate terrorism within our borders. trust me, there are two wars being faught right now but you only hear about one of them.
 
But Iraq isn't the source & stop saying some of them are brutal so therefore that justifies Gitmo. I'm a rational scientist.
I hate religion & fundamentalism. It's tribalistic lunacy fantasy & make beleive, but maybe you are toooo much of the 'American tribe'.
Think outside the box for once mate. Isn't it time you eased of in the hatred stakes. You've now killed 23000 Iraqi non combatants after 911 & they had **** all to do with 911.
Happy now ?
Stop ****ing with them.
China isn't being attacked by them is it ?
The war in Afganistan didn't stop our home grown terrorists did it ?
Religion spreads like a mind virus. Bombs are no cure.
Jewishness or Americanness gets to the point with people like you to be almost a religion. Be your own man !
 
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Originally posted by Tashah:
As far as suicide-bombing, I live in Tel Aviv and have seen firsthand the death and destruction caused by Palestinian terrorism (scenes I greatly doubt you have ever witnessed robin). Violence does indeed beget violence, and Israel will respond forescore.
Like Israeli snipers shooting 13 year olds hanging up the laundry.

Hey, Tashah, where's the [spell your name backwards]?
 
Originally posted by FiremanRyan:
when they're sawing our troops heads off with combat knive's,
And were using cluster bombs in urban areas. Were using DU munitions.

This is what we are doing among other things:

weere9mt.jpg
rytr4wq.jpg


But just to be fair, this is also what is going on, too bad there is not enough of it:


iraqsoldierwithcat7zs.jpg
vvv6io.jpg
 
Originally posted by Robin:
Billy have you noticed they have the philosphy that their terror is better than anyone elses's. They send rockets in to Palestinian vilages & apparently it doesn't generate terror. It justifiable. In fact it's not even terror. It's purely accidental.
This a common fallacy. What the USA is doing in Iraq is worse than the terroists. They have killed more people, but oh that's OK they are collateral damage !
Who are the latest terrorists ? UK born Kids that live in Yorkshire in UK whose parents of Pakistani origin & friends didn't even know they were terrorists. The parents are shocked & devastated.
What a waste of time, life & $250.000,000,000 the Iraq war is.
It's irrelevant as to the nature & location of the terrorists.
My wife's friend has lost his son as a victim in London.
Note how pressumptious our Jewish friends are. I'm not even female
I hear what your saying. It makes me sad to think my countryman are doing this. It makes me mad that people defend this action. This is one of the most cowardly wars ever fought. We are not there to liberate anyone. We are there for Corporate interests to control Iraq from hear to eternity. Were building four bases there. I don't think we plan to leave. And these chumps think its OK that Bush lied to the nation and falsified intels and started a war under false pretenses.

But in the end the joke will be on them. Because after all our jobs are outsourced we be just another third world nation. A they will be sitting around with no food in their belly and a big dumb look on their face going "what happened?" "You got real stupid" is what I would tell them.

Go over to the not Fox news thread if you want to read about an average Iraqi and how they feel about the occupation and American TV programming. I think it is the first post on that thread.
 
robin said:
How many innocent Iraqis have you killed even though they had less to do with 911 than your flying schools ?
Answer = 23,000
How many innocent people have the terrorists killed in London, Madrid & 911 ?
Answer = 3250.
Who are the terrorists ?
Answer = Bush & Bin Laden.

Although I never agreed with the war in Iraq
(we) that is America and The U.K committed ourselves
to conflict in Iraq.
Although the many reasons given; were spurious,
we have a duty to support out troops and personnel
out there..Many innocent Iraqis would die if we were
to pull out now.
The statistics you quote Robin maybe true.
The statistic that is not known however is the Potential threat
we all now face.
I fear it will far outnumber any figures you can quote
about terrorism from the west.
Please remember the numbers you quote were done
in 3 separate attacks from Alquieda.
The numbers you quote of 23,000 are for the full term
in Iraq; this shows the potential that these thugs have.
:cool:
 
Originally posted by superskippy:
Not true, collateral war deaths consist of people unavoidably killed through a misfired bomb, a artillery strike, stray bullet etc. It involves acts like being unable to change the vector of a bullet, which in mid-air is quite hard. How is that a straight line to genocide? My unit has had collateral damage when things were intense about two years back. Does that make us war criminals and genocidal? Of course not.
Mis-fired bomb! Or was it a mis-fired laser-guided bomb. What do you mean collateral damage. We are using "cluster" bombs in urban areas. That violates International law. Were using DU munitions. Thats a crime against humanity! Do you know what the half life is on DU munitions. Use of that endangers our own troops.

The one thing that really bothers me is we dropped a bomb on a hospital. A f-ing hospital. That's unreal.
 
Originally posted by Cindy:
Although I never agreed with the war in Iraq
(we) that is America and The U.K committed ourselves
to conflict in Iraq.
Although the many reasons given; were spurious,
we have a duty to support out troops and personnel
out there..Many innocent Iraqis would die if we were
to pull out now.
The statistics you quote Robin maybe true.
The statistic that is not known however is the Potential threat
we all now face.
I fear it will far outnumber any figures you can quote
about terrorism from the west.
Please remember the numbers you quote were done
in 3 separate attacks from Alquieda.
The numbers you quote of 23,000 are for the full term
in Iraq; this shows the potential that these thugs have.
Here's some recent death toll stuff for you:

New Study Raises Iraq Death Toll
By Irwin Arieff
The Age (Australia)

Wednesday 13 July 2005

Nearly 40,000 Iraqis have been killed as a direct result of combat or armed violence since the US-led invasion. It is a figure considerably higher than previous estimates, a Swiss institute reported yesterday.

The public database Iraqi Body Count, by comparison, estimates that between 22,787 and 25,814 Iraqi civilians have died since the March 2003 invasion, based on reports from at least two media sources.

No official estimates of Iraqi casualties from the war have been issued, although military deaths in the US-led coalition forces are closely tracked and now total 1937.

The new estimate of more than 39,000 was made by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies and published in its latest annual small arms survey.

It builds on a study published in The Lancet, a British medical journal, last October that said there had been 100,000 "excess deaths" in Iraq from all causes since March 2003.

The Swiss institute said it arrived at its estimate of Iraqi deaths resulting solely from combat or armed violence by re-examining the data gathered for the Lancet study and classifying, when it could, the cause of death.

Its 2005 small arms survey finds that conflict deaths from small arms have been vastly under-reported in the past, not just in Iraq but around the world.

The number of direct victims of such weapons was likely to have totalled 80,000 to 108,000 during 2003, compared to earlier estimates by other researchers of 27,000 to 51,000 deaths that year.

The under-counting is due mainly to a lack of hard data and an over-reliance by analysts on estimates based on government and media accounts of wars, which were often inaccurate. The number of indirect deaths around the world that can be blamed on small arms has also been underestimated, as these types of weapons typically trigger significant social disruption that leads to secondary causes of death, according to the survey.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/071305K.shtml
 
Billo_Really said:
Here's some recent death toll stuff for you:

New Study Raises Iraq Death Toll
By Irwin Arieff
The Age (Australia)

Wednesday 13 July 2005

Nearly 40,000 Iraqis have been killed as a direct result of combat or armed violence since the US-led invasion. It is a figure considerably higher than previous estimates, a Swiss institute reported yesterday.

The public database Iraqi Body Count, by comparison, estimates that between 22,787 and 25,814 Iraqi civilians have died since the March 2003 invasion, based on reports from at least two media sources.

No official estimates of Iraqi casualties from the war have been issued, although military deaths in the US-led coalition forces are closely tracked and now total 1937.

The new estimate of more than 39,000 was made by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies and published in its latest annual small arms survey.

It builds on a study published in The Lancet, a British medical journal, last October that said there had been 100,000 "excess deaths" in Iraq from all causes since March 2003.

The Swiss institute said it arrived at its estimate of Iraqi deaths resulting solely from combat or armed violence by re-examining the data gathered for the Lancet study and classifying, when it could, the cause of death.

Its 2005 small arms survey finds that conflict deaths from small arms have been vastly under-reported in the past, not just in Iraq but around the world.

The number of direct victims of such weapons was likely to have totalled 80,000 to 108,000 during 2003, compared to earlier estimates by other researchers of 27,000 to 51,000 deaths that year.

The under-counting is due mainly to a lack of hard data and an over-reliance by analysts on estimates based on government and media accounts of wars, which were often inaccurate. The number of indirect deaths around the world that can be blamed on small arms has also been underestimated, as these types of weapons typically trigger significant social disruption that leads to secondary causes of death, according to the survey.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/071305K.shtml

My name is WINDY
The point I am trying to make is the POTENTIAL THREAT bobbin.
Now we are committed what do you propose we do?
Can you tell us?
Wont many more innocent Iraqis die if we pull out?
Please enlighten us how to stop this
:cool:
 
Billo_Really said:
Like Israeli snipers shooting 13 year olds hanging up the laundry.

Hey, Tashah, where's the [spell your name backwards]?

I take offence that you think our soldiers activly target civilian targets. It only proves how little you know about the conflict, and impresses the fact that you have never been here.
 
Billo_Really said:
And were using cluster bombs in urban areas. Were using DU munitions.

This is what we are doing among other things:

weere9mt.jpg
rytr4wq.jpg


But just to be fair, this is also what is going on, too bad there is not enough of it:


iraqsoldierwithcat7zs.jpg
vvv6io.jpg


The americans have not used cluster bombs in Iraq, they have used a lower level of controlled carpet bombings in miltant areas of Baghdad at the beginning of the war, no major air sorties have happened since.

Regarding your idea on Depleted Uranium it does not cause the intense radioactive sickness you imply. Of the soldiers in the Gulf War who used it more than anyone, they suffered no illness from the handeling of the rounds. It is also an excellent anti armour round due to it's ability to punch armour with it's heavy uranium properties. Also another reason little happens because of DU is because it is used on tanks, and rips through the armour and is expended. This means it kills the crew and the bullet is GONE.
 
Originally posted by Windy:
My name is WINDY
The point I am trying to make is the POTENTIAL THREAT bobbin.
Now we are committed what do you propose we do?
Can you tell us?
Wont many more innocent Iraqis die if we pull out?
Please enlighten us how to stop this
I don't know how to stop it. I wish we weren't there. I can't answer your question because I really don't know what is the best thing to do at this point. I don't have all the info. I know what I read from around the world and it is not good if your an American. I know were not total good guys over there. I also know were not all bad either. But I just don't have enough info to answer your question. This I have to leave for the President. He's the one getting the info. I hope it tells to get the hell out of there before we got 1 billion muslims on our doorstep.

Last thing on war on terror. You need to realize that you can't fight a war against an ideology. There is no clear enemy. And no way to predict an ending. We are now in a perpetual state of war that will not end. If you think it can then tell me how. You can't get different factions to sign a treaty. And you can't fight a guerilla war with a standing army. These guys over there are not doing what they were trained to do. They were trained to fight a war. Not assist in a police action as they are doing now. They are not police officers. Thats probably one of the reasons we have a lot of innocent civilians being killed. Because our guys don't have that kind of urban training. Just a thought. Like I said I don't have all the answers. I might not have any!
 
robin said:
But Iraq isn't the source & stop saying some of them are brutal so therefore that justifies Gitmo. I'm a rational scientist.
I hate religion & fundamentalism. It's tribalistic lunacy fantasy & make beleive, but maybe you are toooo much of the 'American tribe'.
Think outside the box for once mate. Isn't it time you eased of in the hatred stakes. You've now killed 23000 Iraqi non combatants after 911 & they had **** all to do with 911.
Happy now ?
Stop ****ing with them.
China isn't being attacked by them is it ?
The war in Afganistan didn't stop our home grown terrorists did it ?
Religion spreads like a mind virus. Bombs are no cure.
Jewishness or Americanness gets to the point with people like you to be almost a religion. Be your own man !

i wasnt talking about Iraq.
 
Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace

Billo_Really said:
Last thing on war on terror. You need to realize that you can't fight a war against an ideology.

robin said:
Marshall aid in Europe kept the peace after WWII. It stopped the conditions in which another Hitler could come to power.

Well, don't you think that our European campaign in World War II was in a sense a war against Nazism?

We did implement the Marshall plan only after decimating Nazism. I think that we're giving a lot of aid to Iraq, too, to prevent another Saddam Hussein from coming to power. Think about what went into winning the war against Nazism before the Marshall plan. I'm sure the number of civilians killed by allied forces are so large it doesn't even compare to what's happening now in the war on terror. I don't want any innocents to do, but we couldn't have just waited for the Nazis to over-run the world.
 
Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace

PolitikalDissident said:
The Amerikan crusade in Iraq has done nothing to make this country any safer. Anti-American sentiment has flourished worldwide and it's only a matter of time before we're attacked once again on our own soil. The deployment of 140,000 US troops to Iraq has given a new lease on life to anti-American terrorism.

I realize this question doesn't end the debate, but I want to know: What would you do about terrorism? Ignore them and they'll go away?
 
Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace

Connecticutter said:
I realize this question doesn't end the debate, but I want to know: What would you do about terrorism? Ignore them and they'll go away?
Keep hitting a dog & you make it more viscious. Maybe some aid to Palestine etc. Not so many arms to Israel to bomb them with.
 
Keep hitting a dog & you make it more vicious.

No hit the dog harder and more frequently, then he dies.

If you recall in 1972 there was a terror attack at the Munich Olympics, by a group of PLO terrorists called the Black September. They were a rather large and expansive organization spanning many nations and over several hundred members. We dispatched mossed to find them all and kill them. Over the course of a 6 year hunt we found every agent and he died either due to a bomb under his bed, or bullets blew his chest cavity out. In Paris, Warsaw, Berlin, Venice, Cyprus, all over they tried to hide. But we hunted them relentlessly and guess what, the international terrorist wing of the PLO no longer exists, not because they turned over a new leaf, but because we killed them all.

Maybe some aid to Palestine etc. Not so many arms to Israel to bomb them with.

I cannot believe your ignorance, do you know nothing of the conflict. Israel has been making it's own Merkevana tanks, and Eliat artillery, and we BUY our jets from the US when we need to. A 600 million dollar purchase is not giving something away you ignorant fool. The PLO got aid before, they got millions upon millions, guess what they did with it? They smuggled in Katusha artillery, and small arms. They squandered 185 million dollars of an aid packaged on munitions. They want a war with us, and if they keep it up they will get it and they will lose. By the way we will bomb them when ever we please if they keep doing terror attacks on our malls and restaurants.

Keep your ignorance out of debates robin you lack any facts or reason to back up any of your outstanding claims and you go into arguments without knowing any historical facts or relevance. I will say it again, come live here for even but one year and tell me if you still think the same way. All you have to do is wake up and watch the news. These people are murderers. Nothing more.
 
robin said:
Notice it's always the guys that profess to be Christains that rush to war.

Didn't Saddam invade Kuwait and throw SCUD missiles at Isreal before any "Christian" was involved?
 
cnredd said:
Didn't Saddam invade Kuwait and throw SCUD missiles at Isreal before any "Christian" was involved?
When the people on OUR side to decide on war is what I meant. Bush & Blair claim to be Christians don't they ?
 
robin said:
When the people on OUR side to decide on war is what I meant. Bush & Blair claim to be Christians don't they ?

Going to war under the guise of Christianity; or any other religion
is an excuse as you well know Robin.
I never heard of any priest, muller. Rabbi and any other religious leader
taking up a sword and leading others to war.
They can call themselves religious leaders; but if they lead others
into conflict; they are not religious.
Wars I believe are caused by man's inhumanity to man'
and provoked by politicians; using religion as an excuse
.
 
Windy said:

I never heard of any priest, muller. Rabbi and any other religious leader
taking up a sword and leading others to war.
.
What...! No these evil Imams & clerics brainwash some other suckers to go kill & be killed !
They are not only evil, but cowards with it !
 
superskippy said:
Keep hitting a dog & you make it more vicious.

No hit the dog harder and more frequently, then he dies.
Maybe some aid to Palestine etc. Not so many arms to Israel to bomb them with.

we BUY our jets from the US when we need to. A 600 million dollar purchase is not giving something away you ignorant fool. The PLO got aid before, they got millions upon millions, guess what they did with it? They smuggled in Katusha artillery, and small arms. They squandered 185 million dollars of an aid packaged on munitions.

http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm
You spend your aid on arms also. You have had more aid than Palestinians.
Cut out the 'ignorant quips please'. They make you look ignorant !
 
robin said:
Arrogance beyond belief !
You think a bomb with stars & stripes painted on it killing women & children is fine then. You are insane.

You're so hell bent on damning the US for freeing peoples... you've YET to decry the actions of Sadaam against his OWN people. And we're insane? Geesh man/woman (not sure the gender, not going to speculate) Get a freeking clue already, would ya? Get it through your THICK British skull... Sadaam KILLED HIS OWN PEOPLE BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ONE TO STOP HIM!!!!! He has been stopped, and will now go on trial. I did not vote for Bush as Pres... but I'm glad he had the balls enough to say NO MORE. Cripes... Blair wouldn't dream of doing something like that on his own. He needed to be led by the hand before doing so.. why you ask? Because time after time, the US eventually becomes the one the world turns to to stop these attrocities. The United Nations, you ask? They were too busy funding Sadaam's building of palaces and buying of weapons to DESTROY human lives. If that isn't a crime against humanity.... then I must NOT be human!
 
Well in case you have not noticed 87 billion dollars over the course of 60+ years is not a lot, 87 billion makes up less than 1/10 of your gross income in one year, also your site lumps together private Zionist organizational funds raised which account for several billion dollars since 1948. Also in case you have not noticed we are in military alliance with the US, and we get money to process our military overtly not through any secret dealings. It was not aid money, it was US grant money given for a specific reason.

Read up the exactness of your sources so you get your facts correct.
 
debate_junkie said:
You're so hell bent on damning the US for freeing peoples... you've YET to decry the actions of Sadaam against his OWN people. And we're insane? Geesh man/woman (not sure the gender, not going to speculate) Get a freeking clue already, would ya? Get it through your THICK British skull... Sadaam KILLED HIS OWN PEOPLE BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ONE TO STOP HIM!!!!! He has been stopped, and will now go on trial. I did not vote for Bush as Pres... but I'm glad he had the balls enough to say NO MORE. Cripes... Blair wouldn't dream of doing something like that on his own. He needed to be led by the hand before doing so.. why you ask? Because time after time, the US eventually becomes the one the world turns to to stop these attrocities. The United Nations, you ask? They were too busy funding Sadaam's building of palaces and buying of weapons to DESTROY human lives. If that isn't a crime against humanity.... then I must NOT be human!
Northrop Gruman & the like, lobbied for this war. It was not justified as to liberate the Iraqis. It was justified as a war on terror. They lied. WMD was grossly exaggerated with spin. They want your tax for arms profits !
You've been conned. Just like Nam. The arms manufacturers lobbied for that war. When you left Nam the whole world didn't turn commie did it ?
ha ha ha ha hope you like taxes...no wonder yanks can only afford two weeks vacation a year. $250,000,000,000 & rising as if you give a damn about the people of Iraq. Elswhere & thru the Americas all the CIA has done is install fascist dictators. Time YOU learned some history.
http://www.parascope.com/articles/0397/kubark04.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/
http://www.soaw.org/new/
http://users.uniserve.com/~synergy/pg3-21.htm
 
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