Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace ?

Still debating this thread?

robin said:

Finally get the **** out of Palestinian lands & get back to the pre 67 border & stop treating them like ***** then they might stop bombing you. Violence begats violence.

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First of all, I ask a Moderator to censure robin for his/her continuing use of vulgar explitives in the course of open debate. This is at least the fourth such instance that I know of, and this latest outburst comes on the heels of a previous warning. Please... address this issue forthwith and with resolve.

If robin had taken the time to read up on international law, robin would have discovered that any land lost in military action by an aggressor force after hostilities cease need not be returned to either the aggressive force... or any country that facilitated or aided aggressive actions.

This international law applies to the 1967 Six Day War. Postwar, the United Nations (believe it or not) ruled that Israel was not the aggressor nation. Thus, lands captured by Israel in the Six Day War become lands that are forfeit by the aggressor forces (Palestine, Syria, Egypt) according to the United Nations and under international law.

The Sinai Desert was returned to Egypt by Israel under the peace treaty that was formulated and signed by both nations. In lieu of any negotiated and formal peace treaty between Syria and Israel, a technical state of war still exists between them and thus the Golan Heights legally remains under Israeli control. The same principle holds true for any 1967 lands lost by the Palestinians via their aggressive actions.

Although you may sympathize with the Palestinian plight in this regard, they have no one else to blame for this turn of events other than themselves. The Arabs gambled with an invasion, and they lost big time. I would suggest that you brush-up on UN Resolutions after the 1967 Six Day War robin, and instead of spending your leisure time spewing filth here... spend it reading up on international law in the reference section of almost any library.

As far as suicide-bombing, I live in Tel Aviv and have seen firsthand the death and destruction caused by Palestinian terrorism (scenes I greatly doubt you have ever witnessed robin). Violence does indeed beget violence, and Israel will respond forescore. Perhaps the Palestinians have now learned that lesson, and Abu Abbas can accomplish what Palestine could have accomplished over twenty years ago through peaceful initiatives.

Tashah said:

Violence does indeed beget violence, and Israel will respond forescore. Perhaps the Palestinians have now learned that lesson, and Abu Abbas can accomplish what Palestine could have accomplished over twenty years ago through peaceful initiatives.

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Spoken in the hatefull tone like that of an Al Queda follower. You sure know how to keep the cycle of violence going. The butcher of Beirut.. Sharon just fans the flames of conflict. I could just see him in an SS uniform had he been born in Germany without the label of Jew, he'd have been the one meeting out the tyrrany in one of Hitler's camps. You see a thug is a thug wherever they are. Whether it's Bin laden or Sharon or a Nixon. They are the root of evil. Not one race or another or one country or another. They just take on the uniform or identity of what suits the time. Then divide & rule based on hatred. The likes of Sharron are as bigger curse to Israel as any Arrafat was.

I always remember what a Syrian Surgeon said that we knew. "Israel is the thorn in the side of the Middle East the cause of the unrest the cause of so much war & conflict"
Just the view of a non political pleasant chap that simply wanted to make people see.

galenrox said:

I dunno, although s/he is a tad over the top, there's definate merit in what he's saying (robin, that is).

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Make no mistake, robin is disingenuously attempting to perpetrate a moral equivalency here between genocide and civilian war deaths. The legal, moral, and ethical difference here is quantum.

I do not know of any wars where civilian deaths were not part and parcel of the landscape. Although it is tangential to all violent armed conflict, this does not imply that *collateral damage* is morally justified or acceptable. This same phenomena is not limited to military action, as it also occurs in violent conflict between street-gangs... where innocent people are oftentimes the victims.

That said, clear legal and moral distinctions are made between innocent civilians who perish in a war theater as a consequence of hostile actions, and genocidal events that are intentional, preplanned, and carried out with extreme prejudice. These legal and moral distinctions are enumerated and defined in the various Geneva Convention Accords.

Although robin is morally correct in her contemporizing on civilian war dead, she is decidedly incorrect in drawing a moral equivalence to this facet of war and extermination/genocidal events. What's more, if robin can concoct a methodology of war that is sanitary, sterile, and above reproach... I and many others would love to be enlightened.

War is a nasty and bloody affair. The intrinsic doctrine of war is maximum force coupled with extreme violence. My name is war... and I am legion. Think about it folks.

robin dear, you're wasting your precious time here with us Debate Politics *peasants*. Being so righteous, knowledgeable, determined, and persuasive... why not run for political office? How about MP? Better yet, you would be perfect as a replacement for Koffi Annan... the UN wouldn't miss a dysfunctional beat.

I'm going to be here a long time robin. I have oodles of time and computers by the score available. I rather enjoy making you eat what you regurgitate. Each time you make a spectacle of yourself here, I'll be right along to congratulate you as only I can. Just like the soggy weather in jolly old England... count on it.

No too stable mentally are you Tashah ?
The line from collateral war deaths to genocide is a continuum.

Not true, collateral war deaths consist of people unavoidably killed through a misfired bomb, a artillery strike, stray bullet etc. It involves acts like being unable to change the vector of a bullet, which in mid-air is quite hard. How is that a straight line to genocide? My unit has had collateral damage when things were intense about two years back. Does that make us war criminals and genocidal? Of course not.

Also nice to see how you respond to nothing of the posts above which clearly smash your arguments to bits. Instead you go after the mental stability of Tashah

robin said:

No too stable mentally are you Tashah?

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Lol, I never claimed to be totally stable. Where's yer sense of humor girlie?

robin said:

The line from collateral war deaths to genocide is a continuum.

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And the line from my puter to here is DSL.

Spoken in the hateful tone like that of an Al Queda follower. You sure know how to keep the cycle of violence going. The butcher of Beirut.. Sharon just fans the flames of conflict. I could just see him in an SS uniform had he been born in Germany without the label of Jew, he'd have been the one meeting out the tyrrany in one of Hitler's camps. You see a thug is a thug wherever they are. Whether it's Bin laden or Sharon or a Nixon. They are the root of evil. Not one race or another or one country or another. They just take on the uniform or identity of what suits the time. Then divide & rule based on hatred. The likes of Sharron are as bigger curse to Israel as any Arrafat was.

Let's get started shall we? In Beirut the tragic deaths of Arab refugees was caused by Christan Phalanges Militia, and Sharon had not kept proper control over them which is an military and political fault. Not once did any of his troops massacre Arab civilians. Contrary to what you believe Jews are not Nazi's. Never have been never will be so please take a seat on that idea of yours. Wrong Sharon was elected by the people of Israel after Ehud Barak our previous prime minister gave them deal after deal that would give them 96% of what they wanted, Arafat denied it again and again. He did not want peace he wanted war. So when we elected Ariel Sharon, we wanted someone who would deal with the PLO and the Palestinians as what they were. Terrorists and criminals. You don't know what it's like to wake up every other day and see on the news that a bomb blew up in a Kindergarten in Ramat Gan.

I always remember what a Syrian Surgeon said that we knew. "Israel is the thorn in the side of the Middle East the cause of the unrest the cause of so much war & conflict"
Just the view of a non political pleasant chap that simply wanted to make people see.

Yes let's all take the word of a Syrian doctor. HELLO! Are you in there Robin! We have been invaded by Syria no less than 3 times! They are the thorn in the Middle East's side for launching so many attacks. Only now that our artillery lies in range of Damascus have they stopped. The one thing I have yet to find is a non political person in the entire region of the Middle East, be he Jew or Muslim. All hold view points on the region. You could search for years and still not find one.

Wake up Robin.

Tashah said:

First of all, I ask a Moderator to censure robin for his/her continuing use of vulgar explitives in the course of open debate. This is at least the fourth such instance that I know of, and this latest outburst comes on the heels of a previous warning. Please... address this issue forthwith and with resolve.

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Moderator Note:

We've got auto blocking on profanity to an extent and as long as Robin is not engaging in personal attacks (flaming), his/her use is acceptible per the forum's rules. I don't see Robin crossing any line in the quoted post.

At Debate Politics we see freedom of speech as the right to communicate ideas. With this right comes the responsibility to choose your words carefully and respect the rights of others. Common sense dicates the difference between one expressing themselves and one who is disruptive. If you are focused on contributing to the community, you will not have to be concerned with being a disruption. Disruptive behavior is not tolerated and could result in being banned.

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It's allright, when he get all puffed up in a rant it searously damages his integrity in the debate to our benefit. It's in his own intrest to stop cursing and ranting like a child.

I think you have been taunting in a childish manner. Of course you will say that's my cop out... that's all I know what to say. But it's true. You have been childish in your manners.

Originally posted by Robin:
I think you have been taunting in a childish manner. Of course you will say that's my cop out... that's all I know what to say. But it's true. You have been childish in your manners

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Don't sugar coat it! Chop their heads off [verbally, not literally, with little diplomacy for flavor]! Their childish comments bring it on themselves. If they act like babies, they should be treated like babies. Conversely, if they act like cogent adults, then reciprocate in kind.

Your doing fine Robin, you speak the truth. Too many people try to make decisions from only one point of view. I did not come to my position on this war until I started seeing what the rest of the world thought of this. And even then, I wasn't driven to such an anti-war fervor, until I started talking with these war-mongering chicken-hawks!

Billo Really this is what I mean.

"What difference is there between carpet bombing Hanoi or dropping Dioxin in forest with villages & sticking some Jews in a room & emptying a cannister of Zyclon B in it ?"


You are a ****ing retard

How evil... how ****ing absurd

their own ****ing business

You are as callous as a Nazi

You are insane.

If you are a jew in that case you need to take a close look at yourself.

Finally get the **** out of Palestinian lands

stop treating them like ***** then they might stop bombing you.

The butcher of Beirut.. Sharon

I could just see him in an SS uniform had he been born in Germany without the label of Jew, he'd have been the one meeting out the tyrrany in one of Hitler's camps.

No too stable mentally are you Tashah ?

"You have been childish in your manners."

Now I think we can easily see who has been childish in their manners.

I never said I had a problam debating him, but he needs to act more mature and stop lashing out in fits of rage when he responds to posts, which you must agree destroys a debate. I'm not "denying" the truth in fact I have refuted everything he has said, while he has refuted nothing of what me and Tashah said for the past few pages.

I'm not making my position from one point of view, I have lived in Israel my whole life, chances are you have never even visited it. To me it seems like Robin bases his views on something he has never seen and understands very little about. And since you agree with him it would seem so do you.

Billy have you noticed they have the philosphy that their terror is better than anyone elses's. They send rockets in to Palestinian vilages & apparently it doesn't generate terror. It justifiable. In fact it's not even terror. It's purely accidental.
This a common fallacy. What the USA is doing in Iraq is worse than the terroists. They have killed more people, but oh that's OK they are collateral damage !
Who are the latest terrorists ? UK born Kids that live in Yorkshire in UK whose parents of Pakistani origin & friends didn't even know they were terrorists. The parents are shocked & devastated.
What a waste of time, life & $250.000,000,000 the Iraq war is.
It's irrelevant as to the nature & location of the terrorists.
My wife's friend has lost his son as a victim in London.
Note how pressumptious our Jewish friends are. I'm not even female :lol:

Billy have you noticed they have the philosphy that their terror is better than anyone elses's. They send rockets in to Palestinian vilages & apparently it doesn't generate terror. It justifiable. In fact it's not even terror. It's purely accidental.

We fire our rockets into Arab villages to kill terrorist leaders and destroy terrorist compounds. Sometimes people are accidentally hit in the blasts. I think that is a good deal better than walking into a pizza parlor and blowing up a bunch of kids. I have been witness to more than one terror attack, I was walking to get Pizza in Bet Yam, it was a normal day I had gotten out of classes early and wanted some food. When I get there as I roudn the corner and eye the pizza parlor I see an explosion and the windows were shattered glass flying out everywhere. 12 people below the age of 16 were killed. How many times have you strolled down the street to see a restaurant suddenly explode. Never. We fight back whenever we can and god willing these terrorists will not go un-punished.

Note how pressumptious our Jewish friends are. I'm not even female

Yeah pay more attention. I use the word him and his quite a bit.

robin said:

Billy have you noticed they have the philosphy that their terror is better than anyone elses's. They send rockets in to Palestinian vilages & apparently it doesn't generate terror. It justifiable. In fact it's not even terror. It's purely accidental.
This a common fallacy. What the USA is doing in Iraq is worse than the terroists. They have killed more people, but oh that's OK they are collateral damage !
Who are the latest terrorists ? UK born Kids that live in Yorkshire in UK whose parents of Pakistani origin & friends didn't even know they were terrorists. The parents are shocked & devastated.
What a waste of time, life & $250.000,000,000 the Iraq war is.
It's irrelevant as to the nature & location of the terrorists.
My wife's friend has lost his son as a victim in London.
Note how pressumptious our Jewish friends are. I'm not even female :lol:

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You not even female? Your not even human.... everytime you post you make a bigger ass out of yourself. Total jackass

Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace

robin said:

Billy have you noticed they have the philosphy that their terror is better than anyone elses's. They send rockets in to Palestinian vilages & apparently it doesn't generate terror. It justifiable. In fact it's not even terror. It's purely accidental.

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I know you may believe that the west and the terrorists think the same way and take the same actions, but that's just not the case. The terrorists we are fighting want to kill us through any means possible. That's you and me. They believe that their god requires it. What do you want us to do - just wait around to be attacked again? Militant Islam is at war with not just Israel, but all of its neighbors and most of the civilized world. Are you willing to consider all of these countries at war with militant Islam to be terrorists that have provoked the Islamic terrorism?

robin said:

Note how pressumptious our Jewish friends are.

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I don't know what your trying to say here, and maybe I'm mis-interpreting, but I'm going to go out on a limb. That statement is anti-semitic in nature. No, the word "friends" does not justify it.

"Militant Islam is at war with not just Israel, but all of its neighbors and most of the civilized world."
Well in London it was just a few brainwashed & missguided UK born kids with Pakistani parents whose parents or friends didn't even know what they were.
Bit like Columbine High kids.

Actually from what I just heard from a press statement from the UK government they were homegrown muslim fundimentalists, making them by defacto muslim terrorists. Also they are cahsing multiple British muslim suspects at this very moment. It does not matter where they came from, only what they are. And they are Islamic fundimentalists.

Once again you try to dodge the bullet of the past 4 pages of posts punching holes in every single one of your arguments, by switching the topic to something that is incorrect anyways.

This spun story I read on BBC also called them "Bombers" not "Terrorists", like they were just bombers without motives, what a load BBC! :2funny:

Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace

Connecticutter said:

What do you want us to do - just wait around to be attacked again?

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The Amerikan crusade in Iraq has done nothing to make this country any safer. Anti-American sentiment has flourished worldwide and it's only a matter of time before we're attacked once again on our own soil. The deployment of 140,000 US troops to Iraq has given a new lease on life to anti-American terrorism.

Connecticutter said:

Militant Islam is at war with not just Israel, but all of its neighbors and most of the civilized world. Are you willing to consider all of these countries at war with militant Islam to be terrorists that have provoked the Islamic terrorism?

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The US, one of "these countries at war with militant Islam", has indeed provoked the Islamic terrorism with the presence of the US military in Persian Gulf states. The sustained presence of these military forces in Muslim countries was the most important factor spawning the Sept. 11 attacks and will likely increase the odds of the next 9/11.
The "civilized" world has given the terrorists yet another reason to continue and increase the intensity of their attacks by mobilizing its forces and unjustifiably invading a country (Iraq) having no relevence to the "War on Terror" which has, ironically, resulted in over 5,300 deaths from terrorism worldwide between March 2004 and March 2005 (nearly double the number for the same 12 month period before the "liberation" of Iraq).

Someone please explain to me how people can differentiate between Amerika, whose "leader" continuously asks God to Bless Amerika while its troops slaughter tens of thousands of innocents, and the terrorists who claim their actions are committed in the name of Allah?

Re: Is it now time for America to bomb England in the name of freedom, justice, peace

PolitikalDissident said:

The Amerikan crusade in Iraq has done nothing to make this country any safer. Anti-American sentiment has flourished worldwide and it's only a matter of time before we're attacked once again on our own soil. The deployment of 140,000 US troops to Iraq has given a new lease on life to anti-American terrorism.

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is that why there hasnt been one terrorist attack on the United States since 9/11? whether terrorists are more or less angry with us than they were before, the war on terror has better secured this nation against attacks from them. opponents of our terror policy have been saying "its only a matter of time until we're attacked again" ever since 9/11. what exactly makes you think that this is inevitable? security comes first, understanding and appeasing them must come second.

PolitikalDissident said:

Someone please explain to me how people can differentiate between Amerika, whose "leader" continuously asks God to Bless Amerika while its troops slaughter tens of thousands of innocents, and the terrorists who claim their actions are committed in the name of Allah?

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you answered you're own question. they act in the name of God, doing "Gods Will". we're acting in the name of national and international security and asking for God's blessing for our soldiers going to fight the war. if you want to make this comparison, are you willing to say that Johnson, Kennedy, FDR, and Truman are all no better than the terrorists when they said God bless America and God bless our troops?

and please...learn how to spell AMERICA.

Of course they were extremist 'Muslims'.
But how is fighting a war 6k miles away going to deal with the monsters growing in our backyards ?
How are Abu Ghraib & GITMO doing anything to reduce anti US sentiment ?
How is fighting that war in a country where Al Quaeda were not based going to overcome the threat from terror ?
The evil clerics & imams must be rubbing their hands with glee when they see images of your troops torturing Muslims.
It's a waste of $250,000,000,000 that could have been far better spent on other more relevant anti terror measures.
Marshall aid in Europe kept the peace after WWII. It stopped the conditions in which another Hitler could come to power.
Like a tiny fraction of it spent building hospitals in Palestine.
One bit of good will is worth a million bombs.