Iriemon

No, that is a symptom of the problem. The core problem is why they are using the Koran to justify their actions they decided they needed to take in the first place.

Ever read about Moses? He was one of the worst genocidal mass murderers in recorded antiquity. He slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent children and babies and boys and men and women (saving only young virginal girls for the Isreali soldiers).

Yet he is a supported and revered figure.

The Bible is full of people who did horrible, evil, atrocious things that are admired and supported in Judeo-Christianity. David is another one -- yet his symbol is on the flag of Israel.

cherokee

And being a slave owner is worse then molesting children? Which is still allowed today. Didn’t know that did you? Under Islamic law there is NO age restriction for marriages, however it is said they should (should being the key word) wait to consummate the marriage at the age of puberty.
Now tell me who is allowed to own slaves today in the US?
We saw it was wrong and we changed it.

From an Islamic help site…

Marriage at an early age
Q). I have a nine year-old girl who is married to a person at the age of 20. The marriage contract was made a year ago but the girl is refusing to live with her husband or even to look at him. In addition to that she requires him to divorce her. Could you please advise me what to do? Should I separate them or force my daughter to live with him?
(Name and address withheld)
A). It is certainly possible for a father to get his daughter married to someone who he thinks is suitable for her. Whether he should force her into any marriage is something totally different Let me relate this to you: A woman companion of the Prophet came to him and said: "My father has married me away to one of his relatives without asking my opinion. I do not wish to stay with this man as his wife." The Prophet ordered their separation. When she realized that she was free and that she was no longer married to the man, she said to the Prophet: "I now accept what my father has done and I am marrying this man. I only did this so that women may know that it is not up to men to marry them away against their wishes."
Scholars have discussed at length the marriage of a young girl who has not attained puberty and whether her father may marry her away without her permission. If such a marriage takes place it is valid. However, it is perhaps best if the marriage is not allowed to be consummated until the girl attains puberty, when she is given the choice whether to continue with this marriage or not. Moreover her father may not marry her away to someone who is of a lesser status than hers. If he does and she objects, the marriage is not valid. Generally speaking, however. a girl must be asked to express her opinion in any proposed marriage. If she has been married before, then her verbal consent should be requested. If she has not been married previously, then her consent is also to be requested, but if she keeps quiet, her silence is taken as approval.
To say that the marriage is valid is not to say that people should go ahead and make such marriages. There may be certain circumstances, which make it desirable or advisable that a very young girl should be married away in this manner but this must not be taken as the normal situation. In marriage, the normal thing is that people should marry when they are of marriageable age. That does not include girls of nine or ten years of age, although some girls may attain puberty that early. Marriage involves certain responsibilities and a very young girl could not be expected to shoulder these. There are also other problems, which the may face, as she grows older. If things go wrong with her marriage, she will always blame her father for having messed up her life, well intentioned though he may be. If you take the example of your own daughter, and you force her to go and live with her husband despite her protestations, you will never be sure whether the marriage will work out well or not. If it does, then well and good. But there is an equal chance that problems may arise especially with your daughter behaving like the child she is. While her husband expects from her the attitude of a married woman. How could you expect her to overcome the feeling that she has been thrown into this situation without being allowed the slightest say in the whole matter which is to affect the rest of her life?
As we see it, your choice is either to get her divorced now, before the marriage is consummated or to keep her with you until she has attained puberty and she is in a position to express her opinion about this marriage. If she still objects to it, then you divorce her without any compulsion to go through with it. If, on the other hand, if she approves of this marriage, at that time, then you go ahead with it. Perhaps it is better for you to consult with the young man to whom you have already married her. He should be understanding and accommodating. Between the two of you should work out the best solution which ensures that he is not lumbered with marriage which is forced on a young girl who cannot be expected to give an opinion about such a matter. Islamic Voice


Another wrongful act in our countries history but its one we don’t lie about nor do we try and hide it. Nothing can undo what was done but as a people today we can say it will never happen again.

Iriemon

You did not respond to this post, but I will identify them.

George Washington owned a large number of slaves, forced people to work on his land without pay and without the ability to leave, and kept them in bondage and deprived them of even the most basic freedoms.

That is a horrible thing to do, isn't it?

Yet people support and admire GW.

Isn't that funny?

The second was referring to Americans, where the white men came in and over the course of a century systematically took the native peoples lands, wiping out entire peoples in what makes Hussein in Iraq look like a Saint.

What a horrible, terrible thing to do.

Yet people support and admire America.

Isn't that funny?

Even though Moses, Washington and America did these horrible things, we still support them and admire them because 1) they did a lot of admirable things, and 2) the horrible things the did were not viewed in context of the the time as being as immoral as we view it today.

So while it may be true that Mohammed had a 9 year old wife, in the context of the time that was an accepted activity, and you are condemning him for today's standards. Fair enough, but you can do the same for numerous other figures throughout history. Another example is Luther, founder of Protestantism, who wrote things about the Jews that would fit right in Mein Kampf.

Yet despite Moses, Washington, Luther, and America doing the horrible things, I personally would be a little insulted and find it disrespectful for people to post over and over about mass murderer Moses, slaver Washington, jew-hater Luther and genocidal America, even if those things are true. And even if it is true that Mohemmend married a young girl, it is disrepectful to post that over and over.

Unless you are a rude and disrespectful person (aka *sshole), or you are trying to promote hate, or you are simply a bigot, what is the purpose of continuing to do it?

cherokee

That’s all true...BUT is it still being done today? Are Christians still murdering like what was done a couple of thousand years ago?

How long do we have to wait for Islam to see the light?....

cherokee

And what is post 112?

Iriemon

1) What is the evidence the girl was molested? Young girls getting married was the custom and practice of the time.

2) It doesn't matter which we think is worse, which is debatable. The point is that these horrible things were acceptable in the context of the time and you are judging their behavior against modern mores.


About 150 years ago.


Why would you suppose it would be accurate to conclude from one post in a web site that that is a common or accepted practice today. According to this site -- that is not common practice as almost all Muslim states have laws for minimum marriage age general 15 or over.

The fact of arranged marriages from a very young age was common among many cultures.

Family Laws | WLP

What can be done to undo Mohammed's marriage?

Iriemon

See post 116.

Iriemon

They don't put big red crosses on their tunics like in the crusades -- but you can certainly trace the German anti-Jewish attitude to both the Catholic church and Luther, founder of Protestantism.

There are many signs the many are. Part of the radicalism is in fact a backlash to the light -- arguable the same phenonma in the US with the growth of religious fundamentalism in response to the secularism movement of the 60s.

bub

Excellent post Iriemon

Not that it bashes Moses, Washington, Luther and GW, but because it shows the one sided mind of those who bash Islam all day long.

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bub

Now, when somebody post that Mohammed was a child molester, I'll answer: "Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters"

I had never heard about this! But it's a great counter argument

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