jfuh

Having debated with Harshaw and some others here and then going back and re-researching on walmart. I really have to do a loop de loop here.
Just how bad is walmart?

Who are the #1 people who are against walmart? Unions - as Walmart is non-unionized.

Walmart is tearing down mom-and-pop shops nation wide - when's the last time you shopped at a mom-and-pop shop? They have long since become obsolete

Walmart pays too little to it's employees - it does? National minimum wage is $5.15 Walmart pays on average ~$10 to it's full time employees - so not exactly what I'd call - too little.

Walmart is for sweatshops in 3rd world countries. The key word here is not sweatshop, but rather 3rd world countries. We can no justify their earnings on what we as an industrialized nation consider a reasonable pay when said countries have far lower costs for daily items - this is nearly universal with all third world countries. Unreasonable work hours? Try to see what any other of their business' demand. Not to mention, again, keyword these are 3rd world countries - aka developing countries, we too had sweat shops in our own country when we were "developing" and only after we had accumulated enough capital and technology eventually caught up did we say - ok, so and so practices just aren't right.
Hence we, in our "ivory towers" are really in no position to dictate these terms or blame walmart simply because we now see it as wrong.

So there it is, my change in position; in fact I'll go one better - Walmart was far faster than FEMA in providing aid to NO after Katrina with not just immediate necessities but then also jobs.

So to Harshaw (and a bit to Right@NYU)- I tip my hat to you and withdraw my argument from that thread against Walmart, but retain my argument against the justices removing the ban.

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Cephus

Good, unions suck. I own a business and it's non-union as well. I'd rather go out of business than allow a national criminal organization like that in my operation. **** unions.

They are? Funny, I thought it was the CONSUMERS who were CHOOSING of their own FREE WILL to shop at Walmart. Since when was Walmart herding customers into their stores at gunpoint?

If mom-and-pop shops are obsolete, it's the fault of the consumer, not Walmart.

Walmart pays well above the minimum wage, much more than these people could make anywhere else, much, much more than they'd ever make working for a mom-and-pop shop, yet Walmart is demonized for taking unskilled, uneducated people and providing them a job?

It's really stupid to whine about Walmart and similar operations when it's the AMERICAN PEOPLE who are doing all the so-called damage. Walmart provides a service, it's people who choose to take advantage of it.

If anyone wants to be pissed at someone, they should be pissed at America.

SFLRN

You might as well get mad at the tractor for putting the plough out of business.

Iriemon

I don't want to start a debate about Wal-mart's practices, but you are making a statistical deduction error by asserting that "Walmart pays well above the minimum wage, much more than these people could make anywhere else, much, much more than they'd ever make working for a mom-and-pop shop" based upon the fact (assuming it is accurate) that Wal-mart pays its employees an average of $10 an hour.

If we make the assumption that Wal-mart is paying its managers or long term employees greater than $10 an hours (which equates to approximately $20k a year) then non-managers or shorter term employees are making less than $10/hr, and it is certainly not inconceivable that some are paid min wage.

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Matthew 5:9

Cephus

Of course, you make the assumption that they deserve to make more than minimum wage, which I would disagree with. Just because a lot of these people have screwed up their lives and made mistakes which make then *NEED* more than minimum wage doesn't mean that they have the skills and education to *DESERVE* more.

Iriemon

I made no such assumption in this thread. I simply pointed out the logical flaw of your deduction.

We have had long thread on the minimum wage in which I stated and defended my positions on the subject.

Cephus

Since Walmart is only legally required to pay minimum wage, it's really irrelevant whether you like minimum wage or not. Anyone who wants to make more than minimum wage simply has to find someone willing to pay them more. If they cannot do so, then obviously, they do not deserve more than minimum wage.

jfuh

Unions that set ceilings and walls suck. Unions that set minimums aka the house floor are fine.

No, it'd still be the fault of the mom-and-pop shops for not being able to compete with walmart.


You do realize you're simply re-iterating what I'm saying here right?

jfuh

That is the national average for full time walmart employees. Not all, but average yes

Absolutely. But there's the argument that walmart pays too little - where as there are various sources that conclude the same, in that many of these people now employed at walmart wouldn't have been able to get a job elsewhere in the cities/towns they are in.

jfuh

Iriemon never made the statement of whether he liked it or not in this thread nor the argument for nor against.