Democrats cut 'John Doe' provision - Page 4

Sergeant Stinger1 · 07-20-07, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus

Allowing the possibility for vigilante citizens to be sued for reporting supsicious activity is certainly going to aid the enemy,

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Not to worry, we have some of the best lawyers here!

Most reports are reported without leaving a name from a telephone booth.

Hatuey · 07-20-07, 08:03 PM

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Originally Posted by PrimBabUB

Nice try to avoid answering the question, whimp.

Your question is flawed on every level. Michael Moore can talk ****. Does it have consequences? Yes. Multiple lawsuits, people don't like him etc etc. To compare that to somebody ****ing up your life by calling the FBI on you because they don't like you and getting away with it without any consequence is like comparing apples to oranges.

The silenced majority · 07-20-07, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galenrox

And I completely agree with this sentiment, but you have to see the other side of it. We are better than our enemy for a number of reasons, but one of them is we're not a bunch of dickheads to blindly screw people over because they don't look or act how we arbitrarily want them to. Yeah, I don't worry about you and how you'd handle the ability to report suspicious activity, but I am certain that you and I both know the type of ignorant hicks who see a couple arabs speaking arabic while having a meal and will call the FBI, and the implication of such a law is that those people who end up getting consistently dicked around because of stupid mother****ers who don't understand that speaking arabic is not sufficient reason to suspect someone of being a terrorist.

I think I made it clear that I didn't think turning all Muslims in for being suspicious was a good idea.

I do know what you're talking about. I used to work at a pizza shop a few years back. One day this little old co-worker lady said to me remarking about another employee: "I don't trust him, he looks like one of those terrorists". The guy she was talking about was an Irish-Jew. She thought he looked like a terrorist because he had a black beard and mustache. This was 1994!!!

That's paranoia.

Arabic people who talk about our country, our president, our troops negatively in airport terminals so soon after 9/11 is going to alarm people. They also failed to obey common conduct while on the planes & did other bizarre things.. The Imams themselves should be well aware that people are going to turn them in and they themselves should try not to be so alarming.

It seems a lot like yelling fire in a crowded theater to me.

Hatuey · 07-20-07, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus

You think that Citizens who report suspicious activity should have to fear lawsuits?

There is a difference between vigilant citizens and citizens who will use this on every possible occasion. Until we can figure out a way that this provision will not be abused by the likes of people who think that anything with a turban on it's head is a terrorist it should not be enacted.

galenrox · 07-20-07, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The silenced majority

I think I made it clear that I didn't think turning all Muslims in for being suspicious was a good idea.

I do know what you're talking about. I used to work at a pizza shop a few years back. One day this little old co-worker lady said to me remarking about another employee: "I don't trust him, he looks like one of those terrorists". The guy she was talking about was an Irish-Jew. She thought he looked like a terrorist because he had a black beard and mustache. This was 1994!!!

That's paranoia.

Arabic people who talk about our country, our president, our troops negatively in airport terminals so soon after 9/11 is going to alarm people. They also failed to obey common conduct while on the planes & did other bizarre things.. The Imams themselves should be well aware that people are going to turn them in and they themselves should try not to be so alarming.

It seems a lot like yelling fire in a crowded theater to me.

And I agree fully, I just think that the law would protect both the reasonable folks AND the crazy folks, and there are enough crazy folks that it could make life very bad for innocent people.

The silenced majority · 07-20-07, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatuey

There is a difference between vigilant citizens and citizens who will use this on every possible occasion. Until we can figure out a way that this provision will not be abused by the likes of people who think that anything with a turban on it's head is a terrorist it should not be enacted.

I can tell a great story about somebody getting their car torn apart by the DEA on the interstate, because of a unsubstantiated tip lodged after a petty argument.I'll post the story if someone wants to open a war on drugs thread.

I do understand where you're coming from; just throw the idiots in jail for filing false reports.

Hatuey · 07-20-07, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The silenced majority

I can tell a great story about somebody getting their car torn apart by the DEA on the interstate, because of a unsubstantiated tip lodged after a petty argument.I'll post the story if someone wants to open a war on drugs thread.

My point exatcly. Please post it.

Quote:

I do understand where you're coming from; just throw the idiots in jail for filing false reports.

That to me isn't enough. I have Muslim-American friends who have had their lives fvcked up because some idiot called them in and some law enforcement agency came in a turned their house upside down. 3 little kids in the house and 5 guys rush in with guns that will not be mistaken for toys. A few weeks later their garage door was spray painted. It read "Get out of America rag heads". They started getting calls in the middle of the night. My friend finally decided he'd had enough and moved a few counties over. Funniest thing is this guy was born in Brooklyn not even the Middle East. He was a convert and led a very liberal Muslim life by most standards(prayed, ate pork and drank moderately). His wife didn't even wear a hijab. The most he had that would make out to be a Muslim is the Muslim equivalent of the rosary(the Tasbeeh).

If anything like that happened to me, I'd sue the living **** out of whomever came after me.

The silenced majority · 07-20-07, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatuey

My point exatcly. Please post it.

I will.

Quote:

That to me isn't enough. I have Muslim-American friends who have had their lives fvcked up because some idiot called them in and some law enforcement agency came in a turned their house upside down. 3 little kids in the house and 5 guys rush in with guns that will not be mistaken for toys. A few weeks later their garage door was spray painted. It read "Get out of America rag heads". They started getting calls in the middle of the night. My friend finally decided he'd had enough and moved a few counties over. Funniest thing is this guy was born in Brooklyn not even the Middle East. He was a convert and led a very liberal Muslim life by most standards(prayed, ate pork and drank moderately). His wife didn't even wear a hijab. The most he had that would make out to be a Muslim is the Muslim equivalent of the rosary(the Tasbeeh).

If anything like that happened to me, I'd sue the living **** out of whomever came after me.

I think your friend should be able to sue in that case; and he should have never needed to leave this country. That's embarrassing. Law enforcement must be very sure about what they're doing if they're about to encroach on somebody's civil liberties. Lawsuits are perfectly justified in cases like your friend's. He should sue.

People who tip police off to settle petty disputes should face serious charges; obviously so should anyone who uses outright racial intimidation against anybody.

1069 · 07-20-07, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatuey

People should be allowed to yell "terrorist" anytime they wish? At anyone? Even if their accusations have no merit? Without consequence?

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This is basically what this bill is trying to do.

Well, they can still yell it at poor people without much risk of consequence or repercussion.
Poor people can't afford to sue.
But yeah; this will prevent people from making false accusations of terrorism against the well-to-do.

dclxvinoise · 07-20-07, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrimBabUB

I haven't heard of much citizen reporting of terrorist activity since 9/11, have you?

That's because much of it most likely hasn't been publicized. However, when you create an environment of fear people tend to overreact over things.

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Could it be abused by people? Well, yes it could. Just like the freedoms we enjoyed before 9/11 that were abused by 19 people that took those freedoms and killed 3,000 people and ruined how many other peoples lives?

I'm sorry, but that's a pathetic excuse. I don't think 9/11 happened because of certain freedoms we enjoyed or took for granted. That is completely absurd. Are we just supposed to remain afraid because they got through once? Do you realize how many times terrorist-related attacks happen in other countries? I'd say we are pretty damn lucky. You are spewing more typical reactionist nonsense.

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If the "treason, traitor and terrorist" shoe fits, wear it, crap for brains.

I didn't realize your ego was that fragile that you had to resort to petty name calling whenever someone disagrees with you.