Napoleon's Nightingale

In their Fourth Report, the Mental Health Advisory Team has revealed these disturbing findings:

1. Only 38% of marines and 47% of soldiers agreed that all non-combatants should be treated with dignity and respect

2. 17% of marines and 17% of soldiers agreed that all non-combatants should be treated as insurgents

3. Only 24% of marines and 25% of soldiers agreed that they would risk their own safety to help a non-combatant in danger.

4. 10% of marines and soldiers reported that their unit "modifies" the rules of engagement to accomplish their mission.

5. 60% of marines and 45% of soldiers said that they would not report a unit member for injuring or killing an innocent non-combatant.

6. 67% of marines and 50% of soldiers said that they would not report a unit member for stealing from a non-combatant.

7. 65% of marines and 54% of soldiers said that they would not report a unit member for violating the rules of engagement.

8. 70% of marines and 57% of soldiers said that they would not report a unit member for unnecessarily destroying private property.

9. 33% of Marines and 25% of soldiers reported that their NCOs and Officers did not make it clear that mistreating non-combatants is unacceptable.

http://www.armymedicine.army.mil/new...rt_17NOV06.pdf

Donkey1499

Well, unfortunately this is what happens in war. Morals tend to decay, especially when you're under the stress that these guys are under and the only people you feel you can trust are the guys next to you.

IMO the Rules of Engagement are a crock of ****, so I wouldn't turn in a fellow soldier for breaking them either. You shouldn't have to get permission to kill a known enemy.

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Billo_Really

And were supposed to support this s.h.i.t!

I can't wait to see what Cherokee has to say about this.

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"With neocons, it just goes to show, when the
bar is low enough, you can never be too wrong!"

Donkey1499

Are you questioning the support of the troops, the mission or both?

I can't wait to hear what DP's military veterans have to say about this topic either.

Napoleon's Nightingale

Personally, I think this can partially be attributed to the increase in "moral-waivers" the army has been handing out, as well as lowering their standards, in a last ditch effort to increase recruitment in recent years. Given those stats, it's no wonder why convicted criminals find the military to be an appealing profession. They can pillage, rape, plunder, and murder with a 60% chance that their comrades won't tell Uncle Sam.

The Rules of Engagement exist for a reason and, despite what many believe, it's not to protect innocent people. They exist to maintain some semblance of order and coordination in a chaotic situation and to make sure that, while we're blowing things up, those "things" aren't our own soldiers or our allies.

Billo_Really

I do not support the criminal element of any group.

Donkey1499

Oh, such as forcing Army drill instructors to speak calmly to the recruits so they don't "cry"? Yup, that's increasing "moral-waivers". And what standards are they lowering? You talking about Abu-ghraib (spelling?)? All them who did what they did there have been prosecuted. The Iraqis even turn in the troops that do any crimes and those troops are dealt with, if there's evidence.

With all the GPS and high tech computers and gadgets they have now, the part of the Rules of Engagement you speak of are almost out-dated. From what I've heard, friendly fire is going down (unless you can provide info that proves me wrong, then I'd be glad to read it). My biggest problem with the Rules of Engagement is the one saying that you have to wait until the enemy shoots at you first before you can engage. That's bull.

Napoleon's Nightingale

Apparently you don't know what moral-waivers are. I suggest you look it up.

Scores on their aptitude tests among other things.


Fratricide Rates:

1. WW2 - 21%
2. Korean War - 18%
3. Viet Nam - 39%
4. Persian Gulf War - 52%
5. War In Afghanistan - 13%
6. Iraq War - 41%

http://members.aol.com/amerwar/ff/ff.htm

Donkey1499

I got moral-waivers mixed up with something else.
I stand corrected, or whatever.

And thank you for the percentages. Again, I stand corrected....

*Mumbles seemingly to no one...*

Jerry

Makes me want to join the USMC over the Army.

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