Battle for the Holy Land: the wall

matay_brit · 05-21-07, 04:15 PM

In reference to "Battle for the Holy Land, Love thy Neighbour" aired on channel 4 England 21/05/07

Is the Israeli wall discriminatory (attempting to land grab and wall in the Palestinians, deny them the land that they have lived on for generations) or necessary? (keeping out terrorists)
Ultimately its primary purpose is the latter and yet by doing this the Israelis have taken advantage of their position of power to annex land and humiliate Palestinians.
If the wall was to keep out terrorists why could it not have followed the borders?

Vader · 05-21-07, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matay_brit

In reference to "Battle for the Holy Land, Love thy Neighbour" aired on channel 4 England 21/05/07

Is the Israeli wall discriminatory (attempting to land grab and wall in the Palestinians, deny them the land that they have lived on for generations) or necessary? (keeping out terrorists)
Ultimately its primary purpose is the latter and yet by doing this the Israelis have taken advantage of their position of power to annex land and humiliate Palestinians.
If the wall was to keep out terrorists why could it not have followed the borders?

The wall was placed where it would do the most good. I realize the Palestinians do not like having their terrorist activities curb-checked; unfortunately, the Palestinian's penchant for terrorist attacks leaves me unwilling to take their claims seriously.

The Israelis have done everything they can do to make and keep the peace; however, the terrorist-owned government of Palestine is not willing to follow through and keep the agreements they make.

As a result, the Palestinians have no choice but to live with the consequences of their actions.

matay_brit · 05-21-07, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

The wall was placed where it would do the most good. I realize the Palestinians do not like having their terrorist activities curb-checked; unfortunately, the Palestinian's penchant for terrorist attacks leaves me unwilling to take their claims seriously.

i do not believe that the wall was simply placed to stand where it would do the most good. The wall blatantly leaves space for Israeli expansion, and attempts to curb Palestinian expansion. It actally stops Palestinians from getting to land which they own. As seen in the film i originally made reference to. We are not taling about Palestinian claims here, we are talking about the purpose of the wall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

The Israelis have done everything they can do to make and keep the peace; however, the terrorist-owned government of Palestine is not willing to follow through and keep the agreements they make.

I do not believe that Israel has done everything in its power to make peace. The example given in the programme: The Israeli soldiers protect illegal (illegal in the sense that they are actually illegal they legally shouldnt be living there) Israeli settlers and in the process stop ordinary Palestinians from car access to there homes (while allowing Jews car access), while also allowing the stoning of Palestinian houses (and people!) by young Jewish thugs/youths just watching it! and allowing it. Subjecting Palestinian people of these homes to checkpoints at the end of their roads(with no queues) where they have to wait for between 30 minutes and three hours to get into their homes even though they've lived there all there lives, have no terrorist connections, the soldiers see them every day and there are no reasons why they should wait for hours to get into there homes, that is humiliation, not safety! while Jewish people drive by in their cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

As a result, the Palestinians have no choice but to live with the consequences of their actions.

i disagree, yes the wall is there for security, but it has gone too far, it is racist.

bub · 05-21-07, 06:14 PM

but soon you'll be asked why you support terrorism and why you deny Hamas is against Israel.

Vader · 05-21-07, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bub

but soon you'll be asked why you support terrorism and why you deny Hamas is against Israel.

Seek therapy, Bub.

Vader · 05-21-07, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matay_brit

i do not believe that the wall was simply placed to stand where it would do the most good. The wall blatantly leaves space for Israeli expansion, and attempts to curb Palestinian expansion. It actally stops Palestinians from getting to land which they own. As seen in the film i originally made reference to. We are not taling about Palestinian claims here, we are talking about the purpose of the wall.

I do not believe that Israel has done everything in its power to make peace. The example given in the programme: The Israeli soldiers protect illegal (illegal in the sense that they are actually illegal they legally shouldnt be living there) Israeli settlers and in the process stop ordinary Palestinians from car access to there homes (while allowing Jews car access), while also allowing the stoning of Palestinian houses (and people!) by young Jewish thugs/youths just watching it! and allowing it. Subjecting Palestinian people of these homes to checkpoints at the end of their roads(with no queues) where they have to wait for between 30 minutes and three hours to get into their homes even though they've lived there all there lives, have no terrorist connections, the soldiers see them every day and there are no reasons why they should wait for hours to get into there homes, that is humiliation, not safety! while Jewish people drive by in their cars.

i disagree, yes the wall is there for security, but it has gone too far, it is racist.

I'm sorry you do not believe that Hamas is a terrorist organization and I am sorry that you believe the wall is racist.

I do not agree with you or bub the brown-noser and I am sorry you are unable to see the truth of the situation. That land, which is now called Israel/Palestine, was given to the JEWS buy GOD. The Romans basically stole that land from the jews and named it Palestine. This is an incontrivertable truth told in the bible.

Israel has the right to exist and the right to secure itself and its citizens from the brainwashed hordes of Palestine.

bub · 05-21-07, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

Seek therapy, Bub.

off topic (sorry matay brit) but it has happened 3 times to me:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle...ed-israel.html (talking about a few artists trying to entertain Palestinian kids, they said I supported Hamas)

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle...-brussels.html (talking about trying to find a solution to the conflict, I've been labelled "anti-semite" at least 10 times)

and finally http://www.debatepolitics.com/508965-post76.html (Jihad Flash Video)

Edit: what's a brown nose? A guy who is not one sided?

Edit 2: oh I just checked. You know, I can insult you too, crétin lobotomisé.

CaptainCourtesy · 05-22-07, 01:44 AM

Moderator's Warning:

Bub and Vader. Stop the insults and debate the topic.

matay_brit · 05-22-07, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

I'm sorry you do not believe that Hamas is a terrorist organization and I am sorry that you believe the wall is racist.

lol and where did i say hamas was not a terrorist organisation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

I do not agree with you or bub the brown-noser

fair enough, but don't degrade yourself by resorting to insults when i ask questions which you can't answer. Why has the wall been placed where it is? To limit Palestinian expansion and to greatly allow Israeli expasion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

and I am sorry you are unable to see the truth of the situation.

Truth is unreachable, the most rational thing you can do is to aspire to its greatest accuracy. Your "truth" is obviously different to mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

That land, which is now called Israel/Palestine, was given to the JEWS by GOD. The Romans basically stole that land from the jews and named it Palestine. This is an incontrivertable truth told in the bible.

Incontrovertible - the whole bible is open to dispute. Land given to the jews by God. I think that sums up your stance and ultimately makes your judgement irrational.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

Israel has the right to exist and the right to secure itself and its citizens from the brainwashed hordes of Palestine.

this is not the issue Vader, your going off on one, have you actually read what i've said about the wall? Your just trying to change the subject because you no way of answering the issues i've raised.
Why is the wall placed where it is? For defence, yes. But secondly in an attempt to illegally annex land. For a country such as Israel which prides itself on its liberal democracy, surely it should not be attempting to annex land but instead have built the wall at the borders.

bub · 05-22-07, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy

Moderator's Warning:

Bub and Vader. Stop the insults and debate the topic.

OK, sorry.

Quote:

Why is the wall placed where it is? For defence, yes. But secondly in an attempt to illegally annex land. For a country such as Israel which prides itself on its liberal democracy, surely it should not be attempting to annex land but instead have built the wall at the borders

Maybe because of water. We never talk about it but it is an important issue in the ME (for example problems with Turkey's dams).

Quote:

In the process of building its wall, Israel confiscated our land, demolished greenhouses and uprooted orchards. One-third of Qalqilya's water supply is inaccessible - the wells now lie outside the wall.

ZNet |Israel/Palestine | My Town: Qalqilya

Quote:

Well, one way to do it would be to enclose the subject population behind a huge wall, that just happens to cut them off from all the services and resources they need to survive. Cut off from jobs, schools, medical care, farmland and water, the enclosed population will hang on till the point of destitution, but in the end will have no alternative but to leave.

Take the case of Qalqilya. Qalqilya is the westernmost city in the Occupied West Bank (see map), lying close up against the Green Line. Because it controls 55% of the West Bank's most precious resource - water - it is the agricultural heart of the West Bank, and home to 43,000 people . Or at least it used to be.

Lawrence of Cyberia: Enough For Qalqilya