Kelzie

Being a vegan, I admit I have a slight bias... :smile: Just wondering what everyone else thinks about vegetarianism and/or veganism. I didn't notice another thread about it, so if there is one, I apologize. Is it even an issue for most people? Is it annoying when vegetarians preach (okay, I suppose vegans do it to)? Any other vegetarians/vegans out there? Ah, so many questions. Any other related that I forgot to mention, please ask.

Gandhi>Bush

One of my best friends is a vegetarian. One of my favorite historical figures is too . But I, myself, believe in the food chain. It's a good system, it's been working great for awhile now. I think it's cool.

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Kelzie

Hooray! A debate. Ahem. As to the "food chain" belief, aka humans are meant to eat meat:

Meat-eaters: have claws
Herbivores: no claws
Humans: no claws

Meat-eaters: have no skin pores and perspire through the tongue
Herbivores: perspire through skin pores
Humans: perspire through skin pores

Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding
Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding
Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding

Meat-eaters: have intestinal tract that is only 3 times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly
Herbivores: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.
Humans: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.

Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat
Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater
Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

Meat-eaters: salivary glands in mouth not needed to pre-digest grains and fruits.
Herbivores: well-developed salivary glands which are necessary to pre-digest grains and fruits
Humans: well-developed salivary glands, which are necessary to pre-digest, grains and fruits

Meat-eaters: have acid saliva with no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Herbivores: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Humans: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains

So sorry to take all this out on you, but the vegan forums won't allow trolls (no sense of fun), or people who don't "respect" veganism, so I can't debate with anyone else.

And then, there's the fact that gorillas, well all great apes, which are our closest animal ancestors are 99% vegan.

Arch Enemy

What you have just presented is factual (for all I know) and nice information to know. However I do not think we should pick our dinners based on how closely related to use they are.

I've got alot of Vegetarian friends, including my sister. I respect her reasons for not wanting Betsy, but it's just so tasty! If we're basing our meals based on what values their life and what doesn't then I totally respect that, as well.

There is no rights and there is no wrongs. It's a perspective, the most hostile of all these types of people are those hard-cored Vegans, who'd yell at one for eating Cows.. I think this would be alot better if people would mind their own business and not tell me what I should eat.

No argument here.

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Kelzie

It's true. Although a lot of problems would be solved if people became vegetarian/vegan. There's a reason the American Heart Association endorses a vegetarian diet. I look at vegetarian/veganism a lot like I look at religion. I don't believe in it, but if someone else wants to, that's there deal. What I don't like is when people expect me to believe Bible is fact, or the stuff that the Meat/Dairy/Egg Council says is. Like it's the food chain. Or people have to eat meat or they'd die. Or people are designed to eat meat. That is what I like to debate. The actual decision? It's up to the individual.

Arch Enemy

You're correct, if we all turned Vegetarians then alot of problems would be solved. But more problems would soon arise, there's no solving all the problems, either side presents it's own difficulties.

FiremanRyan

nutritionally it makes no sense be a vegatarian because so many of our dietary needs are found in meats. theres a reason why vegetarians constantly suffer from anemia, problems with their nervous systems, osteoperosis, hypertension, etc. Its because they dont get enough calcium, vitamin b12, long chain amino acids, and complete protiens in their diet. you have to go out of your way and eat unnaturally to stay healthy as a veggie...that alone tell's me humans should eat meat. if we were made to be vegetarians, why would they have to supplement so many nutrients just to meet the RDA?

another reason is that homosapiens are clearly classified as omnivores. we have canine teeth. and whoever said we dont have claws is dead wrong. if you believe in evolution, nearly all mammals have grown some type of "claws", these are our fingernails.

unethical treatment of animals is the worst arguments against vegetarians because their believes are constantly flawed when they base their convictions off this. if youre trying to stand up for animal rights, that means you not only shouldnt eat meat, you shouldnt be using animal by-products at all, assuming you dont want to be hypicritical of yourself because there isnt a single person on earth that will go through life without using something that was made from an animal. whether you kill a cow to eat or you kill it to make a purse, you still kill it.

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FiremanRyan

you do realize youre comparing humans to carnivores right? and do you realize that humans are NOT carnivores? we share traits with both carnivores and herbivores which logically makes us omnivores, what modern science has classified us as.

Kelzie

Ah, where to start. First off, your concern for our "unhealthy" diet is touching. For the record, I get plenty of protein (actually, if a person ate nothing but brown rice they would get plenty of protein), and I don't suffer from anemia. As for osteoperosis, I assume that you're talking about vegans who don't consume milk? This despite the extensive Nurses Study done at Harvard where nurses who drank two or more glasses of milk a day had twice the number of hip fractures as those who drank one glass or less a day. The doctor's conclusion to help prevent osteoperosis? Eat vegetables! And exercise which increases your bone strength. As for the hypertension claim, now you're just throwing medical conditions out there. Hypertension, aka high blood pressure, is caused by a diet high in salt, obesity, lack of physical exercise, and heavy alcohol consumption. I didn't see vegetarianism in there...in fact, the way doctors recommend to decrease your blood pressure without meds is...you guessed it! Eat your greens. Vitamin B12 is an interesting thing. No mammal produces it naturally. We humans used to get it from drinking from rivers, or off the vegetables we eat (it is abundant in dirt, and when you don't wash it all off...). It is also possible to get it from herbivores who have been eating plants with dirt on them. The problems today is that a.) we no longer drink from rivers and b.) our veggies arrive so clean that there's no B12 left. So I know you're thinking "go kill a cow", right? Unfortunately, the meat you eat is also supplemented with B12, because the animals don't eat natural food anymore. Cows eat corn now, as an example and they are given B12 vitamins. So excuse me, but I don't see the difference between you supplementing through your meat, and me supplementing through vitamins. Complete proteins are complicated, but if you want me to go in to it, I will


We don't have canines like lions have canines. We have canines like gorrillas have canines. As before mentioned, they are 99% vegan (thet eat the occasional bug and bird egg). I tell ya what tiger. You go chase down a deer, kill it with your mighty canines, shred it's skin with your claws and eat its flesh raw like real carnivores and omnivores do. Then we'll talk.

I never said anything about the unethical treatment of animals. I have never been to an animal rights meeting, or march, or rally, or whatever they do for kicks. I in fact condone animal testing. However, I will not kill an animal when I don't have to. Which means I don't eat them because I don't have to. Depriving a creature of life to satisfy your tastebuds for a 15-min. meal smacks as a little selfish. And for the record I don't buy leather.

Kelzie

Just out of curiousity, what problems do you think would arise?