Spain judge says Bush and Iraq war allies should face war crimes charges

128shot · 03-28-07, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GySgt

Oh geez. So now you are pretending that the countries of Europe are like individual states within one country? The EU will never be able to erase the tribes of Europe.

It's funny how you seem to need to relish in your successes. It's as if you are measuring it by American standards. After 18 consecutive quarters in which America held the lead, the performance of a single currency bloc has managed to pass American economic growth in the last 3. Is this what you are referring to? Is this where America starts an organization where Canada and all countries in South America all fall under a single currency to boost our numbers? This is petty.

America is America. We succeed and fail as one. The EU will never be able to function as America does on the global scale because the EU is merely an organization that tries to please many different tribes underneath it while holding strong to yesterday's model of statescraft. It was and is inevitable that after decades of passive and self centered existence, that these continental European countries would finally emerge from WWII with some success.

Instead of racing to be superior to America (another rediculous phenomenon for Europeans that strengthens your resentments), the EU should actually try to stand for something other than local social issues that individual governments can't solve on their own.

And its only steadily rising.

So, look at this scenario-EU plays on anti-American sentiment in the Middle east, and the Euro becomes the standard in the oil trade, therefore a bulk of the reserves in banks all over the world.

US economy would tank. It's already looking at a subprime lending collapse and a bursting housing bubble which has driven much of the growth in this country.

The EU has been much better at protecting their currency from such shocks.

Maximus Zeebra · 03-29-07, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 128shot

And its only steadily rising.

So, look at this scenario-EU plays on anti-American sentiment in the Middle east, and the Euro becomes the standard in the oil trade, therefore a bulk of the reserves in banks all over the world.

US economy would tank. It's already looking at a subprime lending collapse and a bursting housing bubble which has driven much of the growth in this country.

The EU has been much better at protecting their currency from such shocks.

It only took the Euro 6 years to reach the status it has now, that is amazing in my opinion. Its clearly already by far the second currency of the world, and its popularity is INCREASING. Since the Euro was introduced, the status of the dollar has been DECREASING. If this trend continues, the Euro will have overtaken the dollar within 6 more years, now if that isnt amazing, who knows what is.

Maximus Zeebra · 03-29-07, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GySgt

Oh geez. So now you are pretending that the countries of Europe are like individual states within one country? The EU will never be able to erase the tribes of Europe.

It's funny how you seem to need to relish in your successes. It's as if you are measuring it by American standards. After 18 consecutive quarters in which America held the lead, the performance of a single currency bloc has managed to pass American economic growth in the last 3. Is this what you are referring to? Is this where America starts an organization where Canada and all countries in South America all fall under a single currency to boost our numbers? This is petty.

America is America. We succeed and fail as one. The EU will never be able to function as America does on the global scale because the EU is merely an organization that tries to please many different tribes underneath it while holding strong to yesterday's model of statescraft. It was and is inevitable that after decades of passive and self centered existence, that these continental European countries would finally emerge from WWII with some success.

Instead of racing to be superior to America (another rediculous phenomenon for Europeans that strengthens your resentments), the EU should actually try to stand for something other than local social issues that individual governments can't solve on their own.

Its amazing to see how much you fear Europe, I think also you know that Europe is sure to overtake the US, and in many ways already has. The EU nations are becoming like individual states, and the so called tribes you are talking about are mixing together in a multiEuropean pool of people in every country. The original "tribes" will for many years still outnumber the immigrant "tribes", but in the next decades and centuries all the "tribes" will become a mix of Europeans.

I am just letting you know Europe is on the way of passing American growth, and that the economic trends in Europe seems far more positive than those in the US. I just told you this because you still think unemployment is 10% and that GDPs are stagnating, this just isnt facts anymore, the economy is screaming for a boom that is likely to come within a few years, but until then, we have to be content with US like growth.

Your bitterness and fear of Europe is obvious, Europe is already functioning on a global scale, and we are integrating faster than ever to become united. I am sure that by the time the US realize all their failures, the EU will have become the European Federation. America a union with Canada and South America? LOOOOL. This would never happen, the US is far to selfish to help others than themelves, besides, South america is already busy with Mercusor and would never go in union with the US. However, isnt there some kind of north American Union going on? US+Canada+Mexico? That would be nice, and I would applaud a US effort to help mexico become a developed nation, instead of raising a large wall between the US and mexico.

We arent rising to beat the US, we are rising to help all Europeans, we are building a new society, we are building new ways. Beating the US is just natural in such a process, but that is not our goal, the US is out ally, and we want to stand strong on your side. We want the US to cooperate with us in our foreign affairs, instead of cooperating with hopeless us foreign affairs, we want more influence in the alliance, and we are getting it and will be getting it even faster.
The only thing the US has that Europe dont have, is a large organized military, everything else we have, but there are MANY things Europe have that the US dont, and we do want to share those things with you.

Maximus Zeebra · 03-29-07, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrimBabUB

Perhaps. It could be that I have an outdated picture of of Spain. Never having been there, I haven't seen the sunny pictures and seconds houses first hand.

Have you ever considered that you might have an outdated picture in your mind of America?

Take for instance the fact that 99.9% of the world is trying to paint us as an Evil Empire trying to take over the world. OK. Fine. But. I'm sitting here in my house seeing this **** on the alphabet evening news. We are more evil than THE BOWELS OF HELL. Then. The very next story IS how illegal immigration is sucking the financial strength out of this country and it's all Pres. Bush & the Republicans fault.

We're so ****ing damn evil that I suppose we suck their asses in here just so we can torture, abuse and put panties on their heads, in secret of course. No one lives to tell about it.

I will tell you my picture of America then, I dont believe its outdated and your guess is completely wrong.

America is a great nation with massive diversity, great possibilities for the people, but also a lot of social injustice for the weak. The US is kind of split in two in most ways, politically, socially, culturally, monetary and so fourth. This is kind of what makes the US so unique, the big differences, A-Z. On one side you have the richest man in the world, and on the other you have the poorest man in the world. On one side you have the most evil bastard in the world, and on the other you have the best man in the world. This goes on and on with all different kind of things. But generally, its the diversity people like about the US, is a huge country with so many different things to explore, the possibilities are vast for anyone who wants.

Before when people thought about the US, they thought about the great New York, the possibilities of California, the liberal Las Vegas or the sunny Florida. However, after 911, the US is wounded, they have a big open bleeding wound that have made them angry and scared, this has changed not only the US population, but everything about the US. A wounded man will try to protect the wound, or will be more eager to protect himself when threatened, this is symbolic of the US at this moment. The US have threaded so wrong while the wound is open that when people thinking about the US now, they are thinking not about NY, Las vegas and all those things.
Now they are thinking only about what the US is going to do next, the US military, reckless US actions abroad, terrorism and extremism, Bush and war, 911 and US division.

This is the tragic thing. People want to think about the REAL US again, not the wounded man.

Maximus Zeebra · 03-29-07, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

Ok. How much did you learn about life in America in 6 months?

I quite liked it, although it was very different from Europe. I dont really know how to sum it up easily, but I guess I could try.

Life in the US is just more extreme than in Europe. If you know what I mean? Not talking about extremists or anything, its just a more extreme and maybe more intense.

Maximus Zeebra · 03-29-07, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrimBabUB

Perhaps the reason you feel this way is because Italy appears to be an ally of the US. You always seem to want to run down any news of anyone that supports us.

Thats just... Completely wrong. You are wrong.

Maximus Zeebra · 03-29-07, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrimBabUB

Opps. I really hate to correct you but MZ lived in so. Fla. for six months and is now an expert in his own mind about America.

I never said that, you did..

You want me to report you for harassement? its getting dangerously close to being so.

Maximus Zeebra · 03-29-07, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrimBabUB

So what do you call the violence inflicted by Saddam and his two little boys? Or are you in a state of denial that 20% of the population of Iraq was abusing and using the other 80% percent of the country?

Did I ever say that? I dont like Saddam, he was a terrible man, and his sons were savages, wild bad animals. They were simply awful men.

I am completely aware of Saddam, that doesnt mean I support the Iraq invasion. I actually did at one time, but that was because I was fooled to believe there was WMDs in Iraq.

Maximus Zeebra · 03-29-07, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

The punishment was violence in and of itself; therefore, the violence was there the entire time. Don't even attempt to say otherwise because doing so will make yourself look foolish.

Furthermore, the coalition did not cause the rift between the Shiites and the Sunnis; we didn't make them kill eachother and we are not responsible for the sectarian violence two groups of fanatics visit upon themselves.

In terms of sheer responsibility for death and destruction, the hands down winner is Nazi Germany. The Germans wiped out nearly 20 million people durring World War II.

As such, european nations have more blood than most on their hands, which, in my view, leaves you aboslutelty no room to talk.

I did say that. I mean to emphasise that there was not much civil violence. There was just and mostly government sponsored violence.

Inuyasha · 03-29-07, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra

Its amazing to see how much you fear Europe, I think also you know that Europe is sure to overtake the US, and in many ways already has. The EU nations are becoming like individual states, and the so called tribes you are talking about are mixing together in a multiEuropean pool of people in every country. The original "tribes" will for many years still outnumber the immigrant "tribes", but in the next decades and centuries all the "tribes" will become a mix of Europeans.

I am just letting you know Europe is on the way of passing American growth, and that the economic trends in Europe seems far more positive than those in the US. I just told you this because you still think unemployment is 10% and that GDPs are stagnating, this just isnt facts anymore, the economy is screaming for a boom that is likely to come within a few years, but until then, we have to be content with US like growth.

Your bitterness and fear of Europe is obvious, Europe is already functioning on a global scale, and we are integrating faster than ever to become united. I am sure that by the time the US realize all their failures, the EU will have become the European Federation. America a union with Canada and South America? LOOOOL. This would never happen, the US is far to selfish to help others than themelves, besides, South america is already busy with Mercusor and would never go in union with the US. However, isnt there some kind of north American Union going on? US+Canada+Mexico? That would be nice, and I would applaud a US effort to help mexico become a developed nation, instead of raising a large wall between the US and mexico.

We arent rising to beat the US, we are rising to help all Europeans, we are building a new society, we are building new ways. Beating the US is just natural in such a process, but that is not our goal, the US is out ally, and we want to stand strong on your side. We want the US to cooperate with us in our foreign affairs, instead of cooperating with hopeless us foreign affairs, we want more influence in the alliance, and we are getting it and will be getting it even faster.
The only thing the US has that Europe dont have, is a large organized military, everything else we have, but there are MANY things Europe have that the US dont, and we do want to share those things with you.

This post contains some very interesting reflections. But Zeebra you write so much it's hard for an old duffer like me to keep up wirh you.

I think Gunny is expressing the sigularly American attitude of competetiveness and no fear. This is something that everyone who comes to America notices after living and working in the society. It rubs many people the wrong way. Even my Canadian friends bring it up and while they admire certain aspects of it (the spirit of forging ahead) they do not want it in their society. This fierce competetiveness is a curse and a blessing at the same time.

I do not believe the US will ever forge an alliance with South America. At least not in this millenium.

The US has one other thing that the EU does not and that is an imense amout of untapped natural rescources and uninhabited land.

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