Pull My Finger

While the Federal Reserve likes to refer to itself as 'independent within the Government', the Supreme Court has routinely ruled that it is a PRIVATE organization.

It is made up of private member banks and private stock holders. Like any other business, its goal is to make money.

Until the ramifications of this are understood, talk of reducing the National Debt, or tax cuts, etc, is an utter waste of time.

Is it a coincidence that consumer and national debts are at all time highs along with bank profits?

The Fed's profits come directly from the debts of the American people, and the American Government.

The Fed controls interest rates.
The Fed controls the country’s reserves.
The Fed controls the printing of money.
The Fed controls and tries to balance the economy.

The Fed can directly or indirectly affect almost every nook and cranny of the economy. The housing market, the stock market, oil prices, unemployment rates, national debts, taxes, public spending, etc… A couple of words from the Fed can make markets soar, or tumble.

In other words, a private company (that has never been audited btw) has total control of the country. If their profits come from our debts, what is their incentive to see debts paid off?

Quote:

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." – Henry Ford

Iriemon

Your conclusion follows from a misperception.

It is true that Federal reserve member banks are owned by shareholders. However, unlike true private companies, these shareholders have no vote on choosing the Board. The Fed Board is chosen by the President, ratified by the Senate, for 14 year terms.

Also, unlike true private companies, the shareholders in the Fed banks do not have a full right to share in the profits of the Fed. By law, they are limited to a 6% return on investment. All other profits of the Fed (from interest rates) are remitted to the US Treasury.

__________________
Matthew 5:9

Pull My Finger

The President is chosen by the people who run the Fed. Even if he wasn't, the power & influence they wield is enough to insure those appointed are in line with their policies. Even if that weren't true, and a 'good guy' slips in, well, how much $ would it take to keep you in line? Are you succeptible to the threat of violence or blackmail?

I would like to see an audit once in awhile to ensure this.

... which is controlled (again, unaudited) by the Fed.

Iriemon

That is possible with any government official.

But even wealthy folks have an interest in sound monetary policy.

I'm pretty sure the Fed is audited annually by the GAO.

The Fed does not control the Treasury, that is a branch of the Executive.

Fed operations financial statements are reported and on-line for anyone to peruse.

Pull My Finger

The policy is sound if you are a private banker. It's not sound for the Government or the people.

Ron Paul, former Congressman (R – Texas) had this to say about the Fed:
And regarding the Gold in FortKnox:
If you have seen evidence of an independent audit, please post it - Economists, Congressmen, Activists, Authors, former IRS agents, etc have been searching for decades for this...
If the Fed (private, non-American bank) lists American gold on its balance sheet, creates the list the Executive picks the Fed Board of Directors from, and can avoid any real audit for nearly 100 years, who do you think controls the Executive?
Here is my financial statement:
Chequing: $47,238, 908.16
Savings: $118, 476, 296, 112.18
Mutual Funds: $784, 876, 222.88
Other: $1 trillion

I'll even audit it for you myself. Take my word for it, I'm a trillionaire...
Peace

Iriemon

I think a monetary policy that seeks economic growth within the confines of controlling inflation is sound for everyone. What is unsound about it for the Govt or the people?


Maybe Paul should check up on the Fed

The Board of Governors, the Federal Reserve Banks, and the Federal Reserve System as a whole are all subject to several levels of audit and review. Under the Federal Banking Agency Audit Act (enacted in 1978 as Public Law 95-320), which authorizes the Comptroller General of the United States to audit the Federal Reserve System, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) has conducted numerous reviews of Federal Reserve activities. In addition, the Board's Office of Inspector General (OIG) audits and investigates Board programs and operations as well as those Board functions delegated to the Reserve Banks. Completed and active GAO reviews and completed OIG audits, reviews, and assessments are listed in the Board’s Annual Report (before 2002, the reviews were listed in the Board's Annual Report: Budget Review).

The Board's financial statements, and its compliance with laws and regulations affecting those statements, are audited annually by an outside auditor retained by the OIG. The financial statements of the Reserve Banks are also audited annually by an independent outside auditor. In addition, the Reserve Banks are subject to annual examination by the Board. The Board's financial statements and the combined financial statements for the Reserve Banks are published in the Board's Annual Report.

FRB: FAQs: Federal Reserve System

Decades, huh? It only took me about 5 minutes.

FRB: OIG - Complete List of OIG Reports - 2005
FRB: Reports to Congress

The Fed does not create a list from which the President is required to chose. It may produce a list of recommendations. The President can appoint whomever he wants, subject to approval by Congress.

Sorry, I don't buy your "Fed controls the president" conspiracy theory.

Good for you. Peace.

Pull My Finger

The cost of living has gone from roughly $25,000 in the 50's to 1.2 million today. The value of the American dollar is only worth about 4 cents today... The Fed has done a horrendous job of controlling inflation - though they will tell you differently... Since the inception of the Fed, national debts have never been paid off (exception - Andrew Jackson. When Jackson was asked what his greatest accomplishment was he said "I killed the bank")

There are many reasons why the Fed policies are unsound for the people... I will likely post on them Yes, there is a nice little system of checks and balances set up, if you could trust the people in charge of those checks and balances. You seem to, I don't.

KPMG is the current contracted auditor. KPMG has been tied to more than one scandal, including the marketing of worthless illegal tax shelters, auditing of Clearstream (who has a list of scandals a mile long), ties with the Enron scandal...
In the link you provided, they even state the audit is done on a 'test basis' and that the auditors consideration of internal controls would not disclose all material weaknesses...

This is not the full, open audit that the Congressmen, economists, etc are looking for, including an audit of the gold at Fort Knox

Furthermore, the Federal Reserve is not authorized by the constitution, neither is the income tax law (16th Amendment) that the same people brought into existence. If they knowingly enforce rules that are unconstitutional, why should I trust anything they tell me?

On top of that, why is the Government borrowing money from a private organization - at interest - when it has the power to create money interest free?
CNBC StreetSigns, prior to the choosing of Greenspan's replacement, announced that a 'small group of people responsible for coming up with a list of nominees' were managing the selection process...
The banks and credit card companies are massive political contributors. Not to mention that the American Government owes a private bank billions... The borrower is servant to the lender - no exceptions.

Peace

Iriemon

Huh?

I'm not sure that is accurate, do you have a source for this contention? I'd guess it would be more like the dollar today is worth about ~$.15 as it was in the 50s.

I don't think anyone disputes the fact that the Fed made a mistake in the late 60s and 70s focusing on employment rather than inflation. Since Carter appointed Vokler in '79 inflation to clamp down the money supply, inflation has not been a problem. Inflation has averaged about 2.5% p.a. since 1985, which is not horrendous at all, IMO.

Post away.

That is the nature of the American government. I don't trust them either, but that is the best system of government that I can think of. It's certainly better than no checks and balances, IMO.

Could be KPMG is part of the vast Fed conspiracy too, I suppose.

Who the hell cares how much gold is in Fort Knox? I'd be surprised if they had any.

File a lawsuit of concerned Americans and see if the Courts agree with you.

Because the Govt wisely delgated that power to the Fed, knowing that if the Govt had the power to both spend and print money, the temptation would be to do exactly what you propose, which would quickly result in hyper-inflation.

source?

No doubt the banks and credit card companies are massive political contributors. What does that have to do with the Fed? The Fed chairman doesn't run for office so that he can be bought off with political donations like your typical politician. That was the whole idea of making the Fed quasi-independent.

How is the Govt subservient to the Fed? The President appoints the board members with Congress' approval. Congress created the Fed with a law and could change or eliminate it with a law.

Peace.

Pull My Finger

RE: Cost of living.
RE: Dollar value
Both of these #'s are taken from a documentary by Aaron Russo, America Freedom to Fascism. I am trying to find out how this was calculated, and something to corroborate. I'm fairly certain it is accurate, as most everything (though slanted) was well documented, and corroborated through other research I have done. I believe you can watch it for free at www.wethepeoplefoundation.org
Through Fractional Reserve Banking, banks are allowed to issue 10x more currency than reserves on hand. With electronic banking, this could be even higher and is easier to accomplish. Roughly 80% of the economy is fabricated out of thin air - at interest, seriously diluting the currency
I agree their will always be corruption to some degree. I guess my point here is that a government that serves the people, requires the people to be more active in seeing those checks and balances are legit.
Maybe. I'd have to do some DD. As a guess, if they are auditing the Fed, somebody at KPMG is involved.
Glad you said it, except you should care. If there is none there (I doubt there is either) where the hell is it? That's your gold.
I am Canadian. (I know, then why do I care) There are many people doing just that. Nobody from gov't, IRS, or on and on, will give a straight answer. Why all the secrecy? Why not just slap down the proof that it isn't true, and be done with it?
I'm not going to say it's an easy fix. I go back to the people taking a more active role. I would rather have my Gov't printing money interest free under the scrutiny of a true, and full audit system, than a Gov't that borrows money from a private bank, making the banks rich while my country remains in perpetual debt, and I get taxed to death.

RE: managing the nominees
Also Aaron Russo documentary. He provided the actual CNBC news clip.
Look, no offence but you are looking at this all wrong. When I get into this in more detail (as if my posts arent long enough) you will either think I am completely off my rocker, or you might come to appreciate what is really going on. For now I will say that it is not the Fed taking bribes, but the other way around...
Yes they could, and I (and others) wish Congress would have the balls to quit being intimidated, stand up and put an end to this sh!t through the power afforded them in the constitution! Until enough people understand, it is very unlikely...

lol, nice touch. Appreciated...

Peace

Iriemon

OK

So? What do you propose, banks cannot lend money?

No problem here.

They are the public auditors for the Board.

I don't really care if the Fed hoards gold. Why should it? Why not titanium or diamonds?

The Fed is in the money supply business, not the commodities business.

No one will give a straight answer on what?

I disagree. Giving the congress the authority to print money is an invitation for a disaster.

Don't know him.

So far you have not shown me evidence to support your contentions.

So far you have not provided evidence to support your contention about the **** going on for me to think Congress needs to do something.

Just look at my signature