The Blood Libel Returns

Trajan Octavian Titus · 02-25-07, 07:10 PM

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The Blood Libel Returns

With the revival of anti-Semitism as a global phenomenon, everything old is new again. A new Holocaust is threatened in Iran, a former top military leader and presidential candidate speaks in code of the dark power of New York money circles, and now, shockingly, the ancient blood libel against the Jews is revived in seemingly respectable quarters. After all the terrible things that have been done because of this lie, who could be so reckless as to give it new life?

Two Jewish professors, one an Israeli of Italian origin who teaches at a prestigious religious Jewish university in Israel, Bar-Illan, and is the son of a former chief rabbi of Rome, the other an Italian Jewish historian, have just revived the notorious "blood libel" that has caused the cruel murder of thousands of their co-religionists since medieval times. Professor Ariel Toaff has just this past week published a book in Italy called Pasque di Sangue, or "Bloody Passovers," reasserting that the long-discredited medieval Christian legend that Jews ritually murder Christian children, drain their bodies of blood, mingle the blood in their matzah during the Passover festival and ritually consume it, has some truth in it.

American Thinker: The Blood Libel Returns

And these people are teachers? WTF?

Simon W. Moon · 02-25-07, 11:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus

And these people are teachers? WTF?

They must be some more of them Jewish anti-semites.

Trajan Octavian Titus · 02-25-07, 11:26 PM

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Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon

They must be some more of them Jewish anti-semites.

Umm, so you don't think this is re-god-damn-diculous? Oh and BTW there were Jews at the holocaust denial rally in Iran, every faith's got crazies I suppose, just look at the Phelps clan.

CaptainCourtesy · 02-26-07, 12:24 AM

I appreciate this post TOT. You have shown integrity by showing a different view of a position you normally adhere to. No group is perfect or lacking of extremists. It is the responsibility of the members of that group to point them out.

Simon W. Moon · 02-26-07, 09:01 PM

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Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus

Umm, so you don't think this is re-god-damn-diculous?

A Prof wrote a book where he cites confessions obtained under duress as his evidence.
We all know that TORTURE IS NOT A RELIABLE MEANS OF OBTAINING TRUTHFUL, USEFUL INFORMATION, right?
I mean, if torture WAS a reliable means of producing info, then there might be something to these terrible accounts provided under duress.

Based solely on the article provided, the prof's point is that there were a few Jewish wack-jobs in Europe back in the day. That's it. That's his case. He does NOT say that all Jews did it. He just says that there actually was a small group of nuts.

I don't find it outside the realm of possibility. Humans are capable of such and worse [and things incredibly nobler]. As we've already established, just because you're Jewish doesn't mean that you're sensible. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not.

I don't see how it's that big of a deal outside of some very narrow academic circles whether there actually were some nut jobs in Europe centuries ago who happened to be Jewish.

Trajan Octavian Titus · 02-27-07, 03:42 AM

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Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon

A Prof wrote a book where he cites confessions obtained under duress as his evidence.
We all know that TORTURE IS NOT A RELIABLE MEANS OF OBTAINING TRUTHFUL, USEFUL INFORMATION, right?
I mean, if torture WAS a reliable means of producing info, then there might be something to these terrible accounts provided under duress.

Based solely on the article provided, the prof's point is that there were a few Jewish wack-jobs in Europe back in the day. That's it. That's his case. He does NOT say that all Jews did it. He just says that there actually was a small group of nuts.

Then I ask you what was the point of bringing it up(save for the obvious one)? Answer that one soldier.

Gardener · 02-27-07, 08:49 AM

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Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon

I don't see how it's that big of a deal outside of some very narrow academic circles whether there actually were some nut jobs in Europe centuries ago who happened to be Jewish.

It's a big deal because it has been one of the tools haters have utilized to promote their agenda -- an agenda which has resulted in genocide historically, and is so very much on the upswing throughout the world today.

I guess I'm just a pragmatist. I value the lives of the six million murdered and the 20 million today under constant attack more than I do some professor's right to inflame.THe mere fact we are discussing him (and I had already read the article TOT posted) means this ISN'T restricted to some academic backwater. THis is the age of communication, and it is very naive to think this won't be added to the arsenal of countless hate groups and hate sites who will point to select passages and proclaim "look, it IS true".

Whether or not this professor portrayed this blood libel as rare is hardly important considering the signifigance of the libel historically. What is important is that he has validated it. Do you actually think the people inflamed will stop to consider whether or not it was limited to a few Jews?

Navy Seal Patriot · 02-27-07, 05:24 PM

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Christian legend that Jews ritually murder Christian children

Let's see what Google has to say about this legend vs. fact.

evidence of jewish ritual murder - Buscar con Google

Home Page got my attention.

The face of Jacob · 02-27-07, 05:32 PM

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MKs demand trial of blood libel writer

Knesset Members demanded Monday that the state prosecute Prof. Ariel Toaff, author of Pasque di Sangue [Passover of Blood], which suggests that there might be hard facts behind the accusations of blood libels against the Jews.

Italy's Jewish community slams blood libel book
MK Michael Melchior (Labor-Meimad), chairman of the Knesset Education Committee, said that Toaff has caused "damage to the Jewish People and to the Nation of Israel." MK Ze'ev Elkin (Kadima) suggested that the committee appeal to Bar-Ilan University to fire Toaff from his position there as a Professor of Medieval and Renaissance History.

MK Marina Solodkin (Kadima) said she thought "there are valid reasons to prosecute the author of the book," and called to "bring him to trial over historical truth and the Jewish people's reputation."

Due to the controversy, Toaff has already suspended the distribution and printing of the book, and has said that he would donate his profits from the 3,000 copies already sold to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL).

"As far as the ADL is concerned the damage is done. This is one of the most disastrous episodes in or battle against conspiracy theories. They are not marginal, they are flourishing," said Arieh O'Sullivan, spokesman for the ADL in Israel. "Enemies of Israel will seize on this book as a gift. They will argue that because of this 'courageous' Jew with impeccable credentials, the son of a the former chief rabbi of Rome and from Bar-Ilan, all the other conspiracy theories will be true."

Bar-Ilan University President Professor Moshe Kaveh said that he had met with Toaff and issued a press release condemning the book.

In the book, Toaff discusses the blood libel of Trent in 1475, and suggests that Jews may have murdered the young child mentioned in that story. Last week, Toaff said that he would clarify in a journal, and state that the Jews did not routinely murder Christian children for their blood.

Full article inside

Simon W. Moon · 02-28-07, 12:03 AM

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Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus

Then I ask you what was the point of bringing it up(save for the obvious one)? Answer that one soldier.

It is the central evidence the guys used to make the case in the book that is the topic of this debate.

How did you plan on conducting a debate about the book WITHOUT discussing the evidence used to make the case presented in the book?

From your cite:

To substantiate the charges of ritual murder against the Jews, Toaff relies not on any new evidence, but on the original confessions extracted through torture from the accused Jews in Trent and elsewhere.