Jerry

If it weren’t for homework I would have been an A student in highschool.

As things are today, the biggest obstacle I face in collage is mandatory homework.

Also, I give myself more homework in some classes than the course requires because the in-class time is inadequate....we’re even forming a formal complaint from the student body to the administration over one teacher....long story....

For the most part, getting a good grade is totally possible while not learning the coarse material at all, you just have to know how to take tests, which is why I'm on my Dean’s list for my 3.93 gpa.

The modern grading system, for most subjects, does not measure how well you know the course work, but how well you can manipulate the system.

I can't fake math, but I faked Eng. 104 this week and got the best grade in my class.

If you want to learn how to manipulate the system go to Walden’s or Amazon or Borders and buy an Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery preparation book or a General Education Diploma preparation book. They'll show you allot of tricks.

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RightinNYC

For a 16 year old, you've got a great head on your shoulders. Bravo.

While several people on here have talked about how important homework is for teaching this or that, you're right to note that it has little to nothing to do with actual learning. If you understand the material, do the required preparation to get the necessary grades, and are intelligent, you shouldn't be required to do busy work.

However, that doesn't mean you should just not do it and be happy with the C's in your courses. Sometimes you just have to work within the system to get ahead.

You'll love college. You're actually in class 1/4th as much, and for most classes, the concept of homework is non-existent. Last semester for my 5 classes I had a couple midterms, 4 or 5 short papers, and 4 long final papers. No "homework" other than reading. And it gets even better in grad school.

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PolySciGuy

I appreciate all of the responses everyone, I actually am in college part-time, so I do know what it is like, part of the reason why I am so interested in this.

I ask you though, why should I have to manipulate the broken system? Shouldn't we fix the system so that manipulation becomes outmodded?

RightinNYC

But in order to fix a system, you have to convince the appropriate people that the system is in fact broken, that your idea is better, and that its feasible. It takes time, but until then you have to deal with what you have.

PolySciGuy

well said, but I figured that making it optional and putting in a failure-to-comply consequesnse would account for that. What I don't understand is why people say they wouldn't even vote for it.

If they believe that it will make school too easy, that everyone will be lazy and get good grades, then that wold just support my idea, get rid of homework and increase the complexity of ideas discussed.

If they just vote against it just because they personally wouldn't use it, why? Would these same people vote against welfare? Why not just vote yes and not use it.

If they wish to teach their kids responsibility, stop giving them things. Make them work for what they want, without homework they will have the time to do so, and they will internalize the importance of self-reliance, not just because you say so.

If they think it will just make the smart kids even more bored, they are DEAD wrong. Nothing is more boring than having to repeat the same material over and over. Besides, the kids that need extra work to comprehend will still have to do the work!

I would really like to hear the critisism of this proposal, and not just people that think I personally am an irrisponsible lazy young man.

Jerry

They would have to show why an A or B student *needs* the homework, which is akin to explaining why a healthy person *needs* medication.

rathi

I can fully understand. I'm 18 and have had the same issues. And I offer the solution. The University of California has a nifty examination process called "examination only." You are evaluated for admission solely based on your AP and SAT scores. They don't look at grades and you don't even need letters of rec. You can continue down your current path and still get into college. However, you must receive high scores on your SAT's and APs to it to work. 4's and 5's on Ap's plus over 2000 on the SAT minimum.

The best part if when you get into the same college as the people who worked really hard.

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doughgirl

It's not about you totally however. In order for you to get a top grade you must do what it takes, however stupid and ridiculous you might think it is. That is called life. Its called playing the game and in the process learning while you go along.

Obviously the teacher for whatever thinks homework is important. If you don’t hand it in then you are the one responsible whether you whine or not about it.


Do you know how many students probably think they don’t need to do homework? They don’t need to show up to class? They don’t need to read or hand in homework? When you get out in the REAL WORLD with a REAL JOB will you do the same thing to your boss? You will be asked I’m sure to do things you do not want to do. What will you do then? Whine? Make excuses?



Sounds like a great project. Can't you handle it? You want some excuse to get out of it?
You kids kill me. The excuses teachers must hear. God love em. As if they ask to much.

The American student would never pass in other countries. They think 6 hours of homework a week is a lot. That is the average that an Asian student does a night in his country. And we wonder why our ranking is what it is.


Who is this benefiting? Come on your more intelligent than this, whats a little homework? That’s the trouble today, kids don’t strive for A’s……….a B is fantastic, C is great and D is ok………and E is just the fault of the hard teacher who wasn’t fair.



Does not matter what you think. They are the teacher, you are the student. Just do it. I do not know where you go to school, (public/private school) but I never felt that my teachers gave us homework to shut us up.
Take everything however ridiculous as a challenge, you never know where it might take you. You want homework waivers now………whats next…….attendance waivers?

TALLOULOU YOUR POST WAS GREAT AND I AGREE 100%




Honey I am 50 years old….. I went through grade school, middle school, high school, got a Fine Arts degree, then a masters in graphic design. I never taught school but I taught ballet for over 25 years. I have had hundreds of students and I have worked with hundreds of clients. I know what a good teacher is and what one does. I have two grown children, who went through college....

And I would bet that most the older posters on here do as well. Don’t assume anything. Most of us have gone through it ourselves, with children and some with grandchildren. I think we know.


Personally I had wonderful teachers, very few I would consider horrible. But one does comes to mind.....a less than exciting math teacher who was monotonous and boring and life was miserable while I was in his class. I wanted out and did everything short of faking an illness to get out. My parents said no way, learn to get along. They said he would not be the first or the last teacher I wouldn’t like so they told me to COPE. I did and it was horrible but I stayed and got through it. You will not like the style of every teacher that you will have.

Ask the teacher for more challenging things to do. If you don’t like busywork then ask for harder stuff.

Changing times? Oh please tell us why times have changed so much that homework is no longer needed?

TALLOULOU YOUR POST WAS GREAT AND I AGREE 100%

Jerry !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn I hope my doctor didn’t take your advise and try to manipulate the system and fake grades.


You know I actually got a lot out of homework. I had a harder time consentrating in school and when I got home and things were quiet I could write my papers and really get into the material.


Homework should be a reflective time to read or re-read, or go over material, problem solving without the teacher.


I won’t disagree that the system is not broken. Boy that is another issue.




You know obviously you care I will say that. And I congratulate you for wanting more. The fact that you know the system is broken and needs fixing is……well pretty insightful. So good luck.

As I said, impress your teachers by doing more, striving more. If you think what they give is worthless and boring, talk to them and ask them for something more challenging. Who knows……..

Kelzie

As a (fairly) recent parolee of the public school system, I can say with complete enthusiasm that I support homework. Tons of it. Pile it on. Get kids as ready as you can for the real world because as a (fairly) recent participant in it, I can say that very few people my age are. Makes things real easy for me actually.

Seriously, your first job, 99% of the time is going to be tedious in the beginning. You will have to pay your dues, which means vast, enormous quatities of busy work. Homework will prepare you for it. A waiver won't.

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PolySciGuy

First of all I just want to say that I appreciate that this wasn't a tirade


When the learning is done, what is homework good for. Don't compare this to a job, they are different and incompatible (I'll explain later)

I'm not whining, I see a viable way to fix what I see as a dire problem. Don't be so concerned about the laziness of the kids when it is the laziness of the teachers we should be worried about

If you read the posts you would see that I am all for tasks where the end justifies the means. Work has justifiable means for the goals. If I need to file some sort of report, the only way to do that is to actually do it. If the goal of the school system is to teach, and I have already learned at the level required, why should I do unnecessary steps? They serve no purpose.

Ever think that maybe kids are right every once in a while? Maybe the homework doesn't help. I would be very much in favor of an increase in the time for a given school day if there was a decrease in homework



I don't quite get what you are getting at here.... Of course I can handle it (the project and homework) the tougher the better, what I can't stand is the easy stuff they dish out to try and force-feed knowledge. For the record, I never complain to my teachers about workload, because since I started part-time running start there has been virtually none and a 4.0 for me!


the problem isn't the amount of work, it's the quality. I know why the ranking is what it is, kids aren't concerned with later, they are concerned with the now: the latest gossip that fills up the bulk of the schoolday.



Who is benefiting? Each and every kid in the class is benefiting!
-Innately Smart don't have to do annoying tedious homework
-Diligent Workers still do have to do their homework if they want to maintain good grades
-Kids who struggle still have to do the homework, they will hate it, but look now they have an incentive, get up to a B and tada! instant no homework (unless you bomb the tests)
One of the best parts is it will potentially free up teacher resources to spend more time on the struggling kids

I do take this as a challenge, though probably not in the way you might normally think. I hope to change the system (not challenging enough?). I hope to change it in a way that will benefit everyone. You don't like it, don't use it.


I didn't say it was impossible, but for the most part I find that the majority of High-School Teachers are lackluster and uninspired. I have found that the worst teachers will assign boatloads of homework and sit back and read a book, while the kids have to teach themselves. Come test time the kids know nothing and the teachers don't care.

When I say it is hard to find good teachers, what I mean is that the incentive for becoming a teacher isn't so good, but you can't increase pay without increasing taxes.


why did you want out? Other than that, good for you, would that I were so lucky

if there were a way for me to "work ahead" do homework that is of a higher caliber than the usual drivel, as a substitute, I would gladly accept that.

because there is no evidence that links homework to higher test scores

[quote]
You know I actually got a lot out of homework. I had a harder time consentrating in school and when I got home and things were quiet I could write my papers and really get into the material.


bingo! I don't complain about reading for comprehension, nor do I complain about practicing what I don't know. it is when I am forced to review what I already know over and over to the point of mind-numbing hate that is what I complain about.



but... why? why is it broken?


well thank you for that



heh... I think it sounds easier than it is "Prof. X? Yea I think that your time-tested curriculum is outdated and, frankly, boring. You have anything more...challenging?"

whew, thats a road I don't want to go down anytime soon.
Time for the anecdote: I did that, I've done it twice (same teacher 2 different years) Without being too specific (unless you want me to) I asked for the reason why? I was told to ask after class, so I did. I was greeted with a dead stare and a frank "honestly I don't know".