New Pal murder-bombing - Page 3

CaptainCourtesy · 01-30-07, 04:05 AM

I have been thinking about this post, on and off, much of the day, in between work. I have been arguing and debating all sides for peace on numerous threads for more than a week, now, attempting to expose extremists on all sides, and trying to get some peaceful, non-hateful dialogue going between both sides, here at DP. It always interests me how parallel process works. While doing that here, a tentative peace was occuring in the Middle East, with a little, abait a little, hope. And then this abhorrant homocide-bombing happens. So far, not a word from Abbas condemning this. Heck, his own party, Fatah, admitted to being part of the atrocity. The Palestinian governing party Hamas, condoned the attack. No Palestinian official condemning the attack. Tashah is right. The terrorists ARE the government. Peace cannot be possible when people with this type of mindset are in charge.

Excuse my honest efforts to bring clarity and peace to one small place where this battle occurs. I am going to try to refrain from posting in the ME forum for a while...I don't see the point when one side refuses to promote peace; only murder.

As for my position, I stand by my convictions. I will continue to speak out against extremism, anywhere, and will expose both extremism and overgeneralizations, regardless of where it comes from. However, as far as I am concerned, the possibility of peace is now SOLEY in the hands of the Palestinians. It is up to them to show, directly and overtly, that they want an end to the violence. Until that happens, I will support ALL reasonable Israeli actions in defense of her nation and people, and refuse to consider Palestinian whining in regards to those actions.

Thank you for you attention.

CaptainCourtesy · 01-30-07, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenin

I am sorry. I am sorry this has happened. I am sorry that the innocent Israeli citizens were killed by this crime.

There go my hopes for a free palestine down the drain again...

Here come the Israeli bombs, blasting away the innocent palestinian civilians caught between them and their targets...

There goes all my hard work in bringing credibility to the right of resistance.
And ofcourse, there go the dozens of killed by infighting...

To my palestinian people, hede this authentic hadith:
The prophet Muhammad said clearly

"Muslims must not kill innocent men women and children, nor cut a tree nor kill those on the battlefield who have turned their backs to run"

"Muslims fighting each other and killing each other will both go to hell"

This is outrageous. The settlements expand, the cause is flushed down the drain, and you, my fellow palestinians are resorting to civil war and attacking the innocent. This is a great dishonor and a shame.

My condolences...

Very helpful post, Jenin. It would have nice if a Palestinian in authority had said anything remotely similar to what you just did.

Jenin · 01-30-07, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Heck, his own party, Fatah, admitted to being part of the atrocity. The Palestinian governing party Hamas, condoned the attack. No Palestinian official condemning the attack. Tashah is right. The terrorists ARE the government. Peace cannot be possible when people with this type of mindset are in charge.

No myfriend, Tashah is wrong. I understand how she feels this way, but I think she is wrong.

Al-Aqsa martyrs Brigades is a militant wing that does not at all agree with the position of fatah. Fatah, Abbas, have called for an end to suicide bombings and the resistance even. They want to push the non-violent resistance movement alongside direct negotiations with Israel. Many Fatah officials have condemned this crime.

Hamas has stopped suicide bombing and is able to clamp down on Izzi-din-Qassam military wing. Their response, like Tashah's, is wrong and I disagree with their 'natural response' remark, but I understand how they feel about it.

Quote:

possibility of peace is now SOLEY in the hands of the Palestinians. It is up to them to show, directly and overtly, that they want an end to the violence. Until that happens, I will support ALL reasonable Israeli actions in defense of her nation

Please, for the sake of the holy land, for the sake of the jews and the palestinians, for the God's sake, for the sake of our father Abraham...Please understand that we cannot do this. We cannot do this, this has been the reason there has been no peace. Each side says it is in the hands of the other. Israeli 'defense' is an offense against a majority civilian population and infrastructure. It is what extremists use to continue the occupation just like 'palestinian defense' is used by extremists on the other side.

I am outraged at this crime, I have lost much hope, I am saddened, I am tired. But, captain, we cannot use it to block our rational thinking, with my sincere respect and admiration sir. Just a month or so ago a neighborhood in beit hanoun was shelled for hours and 18 women and children were killed under the pretext of 'Israeli' defense. The majority of palestinians killed in this intifada, four times the number of Israelis, are civilians. These are women and children and young men and old people. It is, in the eyes of much of the world an attrocity. But I cannot use beit hanoun, or the rape of gaza just months ago to put the case for peace solely on the Israelis or blindly support the palestinians and trust their 'reasonable' rersponse. We must stand together to condemn this crime and other crimes, and we must stand together to condemn Israeli crimes. It is up to us to look through the fog of war and stop the march to massacre.

My great grandfather was killed by an Israeli bullet in Haifa in 1948.
My uncle Sharif was killed by Israeli troops, his body riddled 16 times.
I have had cousins and uncles imprisoned without trial, family land confiscated, seen homes looted by Israeli police under the pretext of 'late due taxes'. I have been arrested and beaten by etheopian and russian Israeli soldiers in the old city of jerusalem for arguing with a police officer who would not speak english nor arabic with me. I travel to the west bank and see emense red roofed settlments surrounding the towns, I have been insulted at check point, M-16s raised at my mother and father, travelled 7 hours to get to a distance 10 miles away. I have witnessed the massive wall, the homes and land destroyed in it's path. But I cannot allow myself to be blinded by this, I cannot throw all my troubles, all my fears and all my worries at the jews, blame the Israelis unconditionally and support the palestinian militants and justify any 'reasonable' actions they might take.

You are in the minority, as I might be. But we cannot be sucked into the void of never ending struggle. For me, it is a price too heavy to pay. 80 years, my people have rebelled. 80 years, they have been sucked into the void.

cherokee · 01-30-07, 09:40 AM

Jenin there is no ONE group that wants to end the violence. If there is they don’t have a voice or its being muted by those who wish to continue causing misery at the expense of the people. It’s the same never-ending cycle.
Who can unite the people and with a deafening voice yell

“Enough of this bull****!
Its time to have statehood with a government for the people and an end to the Islamic militants groups.”

Jenin, its just a matter of time before the cease fire is totally broken, you know it and I know it.
More suicide attacks on Israel and more Israeli attacks in return.

Will they use another suicide attack after Israel responds to this one?
When the fook is it going to end?
Its the same chit different day. The only thing that will change is the number of dead at the end of the day.

Tashah · 01-30-07, 01:05 PM

In August of 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza. I witnessed this, because I was in one of the seven concentric rings providing security for the withdrawal of all Israelis from Gaza.

By totally withdrawing from Gaza, Israel fulfilled another of its signposts in the Roadmap for Peace. According to the Roadmap, the next signposts were to be fulfilled by the Palestinians. This included disbanding and disarming the numerous militias. This included accepting assistence from willing nations to reform the Palestinian police and educational system. This included stopping all weapons smuggling into Palestine. An end to terrorist attacks.

Palestine has accomplished none of the signposts above. The terrorist organization Hamas was elected to represent the Palestinian people. The militias are still active and armed to the teeth. The police force is corrupt and useless. The education system still teaches hate and violence. Iranian weapons continue to flow into Palestine from Egypt and the seacoast. Qassam rockets were fired into Israel the day after the withdrawal grom Gaza was complete and continue on an almost daily basis. Israeli soldiers have been kidnapped on Israeli soil and remain captive. And now, another Palestinian murder-bombing. Fatah and Hamas applaud this crime and care not a whit that it ruins any hopes of serious negotiation and peaceful compromise with Israel. Via both omission and commission, the Palestinian government has not moved forward one iota.

What more can be said?

Vader · 01-30-07, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makhno

Vader, why all these happy faces exactly?

It's better to smile than to frown. Did you know that there are 33 seperate muscles required in making a frown; whereas, only three are required to smile.

As soon as Palestine had funds the first thing they did was send a suicide coward into Israel. This is good evidence of why Palestine needs to remain fundless until Hamas is removed from power and the rest of the militant scum therein is contained and/or destroyed.

No money means --- no guns for terrorists.

If Hamas would use the money to buy food and needed supplies, that would be one thing; however, clearly they would rather support terrorism.

Vader · 01-30-07, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenin

No myfriend, Tashah is wrong. I understand how she feels this way, but I think she is wrong.

Al-Aqsa martyrs Brigades is a militant wing that does not at all agree with the position of fatah. Fatah, Abbas, have called for an end to suicide bombings and the resistance even. They want to push the non-violent resistance movement alongside direct negotiations with Israel. Many Fatah officials have condemned this crime.

Hamas has stopped suicide bombing and is able to clamp down on Izzi-din-Qassam military wing. Their response, like Tashah's, is wrong and I disagree with their 'natural response' remark, but I understand how they feel about it.

Please, for the sake of the holy land, for the sake of the jews and the palestinians, for the God's sake, for the sake of our father Abraham...Please understand that we cannot do this. We cannot do this, this has been the reason there has been no peace. Each side says it is in the hands of the other. Israeli 'defense' is an offense against a majority civilian population and infrastructure. It is what extremists use to continue the occupation just like 'palestinian defense' is used by extremists on the other side.

I am outraged at this crime, I have lost much hope, I am saddened, I am tired. But, captain, we cannot use it to block our rational thinking, with my sincere respect and admiration sir. Just a month or so ago a neighborhood in beit hanoun was shelled for hours and 18 women and children were killed under the pretext of 'Israeli' defense. The majority of palestinians killed in this intifada, four times the number of Israelis, are civilians. These are women and children and young men and old people. It is, in the eyes of much of the world an attrocity. But I cannot use beit hanoun, or the rape of gaza just months ago to put the case for peace solely on the Israelis or blindly support the palestinians and trust their 'reasonable' rersponse. We must stand together to condemn this crime and other crimes, and we must stand together to condemn Israeli crimes. It is up to us to look through the fog of war and stop the march to massacre.

My great grandfather was killed by an Israeli bullet in Haifa in 1948.
My uncle Sharif was killed by Israeli troops, his body riddled 16 times.
I have had cousins and uncles imprisoned without trial, family land confiscated, seen homes looted by Israeli police under the pretext of 'late due taxes'. I have been arrested and beaten by etheopian and russian Israeli soldiers in the old city of jerusalem for arguing with a police officer who would not speak english nor arabic with me. I travel to the west bank and see emense red roofed settlments surrounding the towns, I have been insulted at check point, M-16s raised at my mother and father, travelled 7 hours to get to a distance 10 miles away. I have witnessed the massive wall, the homes and land destroyed in it's path. But I cannot allow myself to be blinded by this, I cannot throw all my troubles, all my fears and all my worries at the jews, blame the Israelis unconditionally and support the palestinian militants and justify any 'reasonable' actions they might take.

You are in the minority, as I might be. But we cannot be sucked into the void of never ending struggle. For me, it is a price too heavy to pay. 80 years, my people have rebelled. 80 years, they have been sucked into the void.

Tasha is correct in stating that the Palestinians have completely failed to meet their end of the peace process. They absolutely have ... there is no denying this.

If Palestine is to achieve peace, Hamas and the militas need to be disbanded. There is no room for war in the process of making peace. There is no room for Hamas to create strife and famine by carrying out terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians.

Ismail Hianea needs to be put in a cell for all eternity for his outright support, funding, and tolerence of terrorism. He is pig feces...as are the mullahs, the ayetoiletbowl, the presiterrorist of Iran, and the government of Syria.

cherokee · 01-30-07, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tashah

In August of 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza. I witnessed this, because I was in one of the seven concentric rings providing security for the withdrawal of all Israelis from Gaza.

By totally withdrawing from Gaza, Israel fulfilled another of its signposts in the Roadmap for Peace. According to the Roadmap, the next signposts were to be fulfilled by the Palestinians. This included disbanding and disarming the numerous militias. This included accepting assistence from willing nations to reform the Palestinian police and educational system. This included stopping all weapons smuggling into Palestine. An end to terrorist attacks.

Palestine has accomplished none of the signposts above. The terrorist organization Hamas was elected to represent the Palestinian people. The militias are still active and armed to the teeth. The police force is corrupt and useless. The education system still teaches hate and violence. Iranian weapons continue to flow into Palestine from Egypt and the seacoast. Qassam rockets were fired into Israel the day after the withdrawal grom Gaza was complete and continue on an almost daily basis. Israeli soldiers have been kidnapped on Israeli soil and remain captive. And now, another Palestinian murder-bombing. Fatah and Hamas applaud this crime and care not a whit that it ruins any hopes of serious negotiation and peaceful compromise with Israel. Via both omission and commission, the Palestinian government has not moved forward one iota.

What more can be said?

Nothing, Not a damn thing.

It’s like me trying to teach my wife's horse how to talk.
It pi$$es you off and aggravates the horse.

Maybe they will have a civil war soon so they can wipe each other out.

Until then Keep building the wall and each time a rocket is fired just return the favor with a 500 ponder. I would however take it up a notch instead of bulldozing the house of the bomber I would destroy the house plus a 500 yard area around his home.

Makhno · 01-30-07, 03:35 PM

Israel, has blocked the peace process for over thirty years, so they really can't lecture to the Palestinians about not doing their bit in the "road map".

Makhno · 01-30-07, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tashah

What more can be said?

It's simple - if Israel wants peace, then they can get off Palestinian land, and stop making their lives a misery as well.

The majority of terrorism is committed by Israel against the Palestinians (in the OT, despite the fact that they've been practically immune from resistance from within the OT during most of their occupation), you can go on about your quassam rockets etc etc, but that fact remains. In fact if the Palestinians retaliated to keep themselves safe, in the same manner that Israel does, Israel would no longer exist. Israelis aren't forced to go through check points to get around, they aren't forced to live behind an apartheid wall, they aren't under a military occupation . . . and you wonder why they hate Israel . . . when they're so free and democratic?

Moreso, I don't see anyone calling for the "total destruction of Israel" each time it committs murder. And it's ok to generalize on the Pals, after all they elected Hamas, yep the crime of voting the wrong way in an election (as those democracy loving amercians and Israelis seem to think) . . . Israelis have elected the Lukid (spl?) party, but their extremism is ok.

Just like it's OK to kill a family of 18, whilste bombing Israeli civilians is unforgivable . . . so where are your criticisms then?

But still we are told - "Israel choses the way of peace" and that all it's terrorsim is always "necessary". What a sick joke.

Israel as always is the one with all the power, all the influence to stop the misery in the OT that gives extremist leaders new recruits, but they still don't want peace.

And Vader, cherokee and the rest, what hypocrites you are, to cry over this murder while at the same time using it to justify the murder of Palestinians. That really is a new low.

Shame on you.