New Pal murder-bombing - Page 11

CaptainCourtesy · 02-13-07, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makhno

No they didn't. Most left because of Israeli aggression. As for the ones who didn't, so what? Were they not allowed to return home?

Wrong. A small amount were forced to leave. The rest left because of the uncoming Arab aggression during the war of 1948 where the Arab countries attacked Israel.

Quote:

Your point? Israel has done, and is doing the same.

Ridiculous response. Offer evidence of just 1 Israeli suicide or homocide bombing.

Quote:

I have already shown one example of when they have in this thread. You know, the so-called "revisionist" part.

Sure. Just 1. In 1982. But let's look at the current Road Map for Peace. Phase 1 requires the Israeli government to freeze settlement expansion and withdraw from Palesinian territory. They have withdrawn from Gaza and from most of the West Bank. Clearly compromise and consiliatory efforts towards peace. It also requires an end to Palestinian violence and Palestinians political reform. Not done. Not even close. No effort whatsoever. Just more aims towards destroying Israel. As I have said, it is now the Palestinians move. Thus far, they have shown that they are uninterested in peace.

Jenin · 02-16-07, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Wrong. A small amount were forced to leave. The rest left because of the uncoming Arab aggression during the war of 1948 where the Arab countries attacked Israel.

Wrong. A great number were forced to leave under threat of Genocide in Haifa, Jaffa and elsewhere. Massacres and demolitions of arab towns, including cemeteries, mosques and churches occured. The majority left out of fear and terror from the Irgun/Stern/Yishuf/Hagana terrorist attacks, massacres and threats.

Quote:

Sure. Just 1. In 1982. But let's look at the current Road Map for Peace. Phase 1 requires the Israeli government to freeze settlement expansion and withdraw from Palesinian territory. They have withdrawn from Gaza and from most of the West Bank.

Wrong. The Israeli government has NOT put an end to settlement expansion, ever. The largest growth of settlements occurred during the oslo process and during the roadmap. The Israelis DID NOT abide by the request for immediate halt of settlement expansion/construction. Also, Gaza IS occupied and you know this.

CaptainCourtesy · 02-17-07, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenin

Wrong. A great number were forced to leave under threat of Genocide in Haifa, Jaffa and elsewhere. Massacres and demolitions of arab towns, including cemeteries, mosques and churches occured. The majority left out of fear and terror from the Irgun/Stern/Yishuf/Hagana terrorist attacks, massacres and threats.

Wrong. Israeli officials begged Arabs in Haifa to remain, continue to run their businesses and live as members of the Israeli nation. They chose to leave before any violence occurred under the behest of Arab leaders who knew of the upcoming attack on Israel. Many Arabs left of their own accord for fear of getting caught in the crossfire of the upcoming attack, and with the intent of returning when Israel was destroyed. Ther are many articles and quotes from prominant Arab newspapers and prominant Arabs showing this to be true.

IJS - [British Police Memo on 1948 Exodus]

Quote:

Wrong. The Israeli government has NOT put an end to settlement expansion, ever. The largest growth of settlements occurred during the oslo process and during the roadmap. The Israelis DID NOT abide by the request for immediate halt of settlement expansion/construction. Also, Gaza IS occupied and you know this.

Incorrect. I am talking about the RoadMap for Peace, set in 2002. Israel began their Gaza pullout on August 18, 2005, completing it on August 22, 2005.
CNN.com - Israel*empties Gaza's Gadid settlement - Aug 19, 2005
Final Israeli Settlement in Gaza Evacuated - Elites TV - Your Elite News Source
This is a fact and you are being disingenuous by not admitting it. Israel then left Gaza to the PA. Any subsequent incursion by Israel into Gaza has been caused by Palestinian aggression, alone.

BTW, Palestinians have not abided by one requirement mentioned in the RoadMap for Peace, which you have not addressed.

Jenin · 02-17-07, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Based on declassified Israeli documents, the Israeli historian Benny Morris concluded that the Jewish civilian population (especially Haifa's Jewish mayor Shabtai Levy) was at peace with their Palestinian neighbors, but the Haganah and the IZL leadership had a different agenda to ethnically cleansing the city from its Palestinian Arab population. Benny Morris wrote:

"In Haifa, the civilian authorities were saying one thing and the Haganah was doing something else altogether. Moreover, Haganah unites in the field acted inconsistently and in a manner often unintelligible to the Arab population" (Benny Morris, p. 90).

To expedite the ethnic cleansing process, the Haganah broadcasted terror messages, via loudspeakers, to sociologically terrorize the Arab inhabitants into fleeing. (Benny Morris, p. 76)

According to Ben-Gurion's biographer, Micheal Bar-Zohar, the dispatching of Golda Meir to Haifa soon after the city's occupation was nothing but a political and tactical ploy, Zohar wrote:,

"The appeals to the Arabs [of Haifa] to stay, Golda's mission, and other similar gestures were the result of political considerations, but they did not reflect [Ben-Gurion's] basic stand. In internal discussions, in instructions to his people, the 'old man' demonstrated a clear stand: it was better that the smallest possible number of [Palestinian] Arabs remain with in the [Jewish] state." (Simha Falpan, p. 84)

Out of the 61,000 Palestinian Arabs who used to call Haifa home, only 3,566 Palestinians were allowed to stay. The remaining population were in constant fear on their lives and properties, and many of them witnessed the looting of their homes and possessions by the Zionists.

Welcome To Haifa

EAGLE1 · 02-17-07, 08:29 AM

Naw Jenin you're wrong, those Israeli angels never did anything to anyone without first being attacked. Even then they always tried their very best to limit casualties. Those civilians that died just happened to be accidentally walking in front of their bullits or accidently moving their houses in front of bulldozers shells and tanks. Im surprised you havent realised this by now, but then you, like most of the world are the brain washed puppets of Al Queda whereas the Americans and the Israelis see things clearly. Quite simple.

Remember Jenin, in the ME Israelis =

the Arabs =

&

CaptainCourtesy · 02-18-07, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenin

Welcome To Haifa

I really try to refrain from posting information from sites that are decidely pro- or anti- anything. The website this comes from is extremely biased. It's FAQ on Zionism for example. It answers none of the questions it asks! Instead it answers them with it's own questions, furthering it's position with it's own propoganda, Shall I post the many decidedly pro-Israeli websites that refute and debunk everything you say? I can easily outdo whatever you find, by at least 3:1. What would that prove? Nothing.

Furthermore, you didn't address the second part of my post regarding the RoadMap for Peace. My links are from general news sources. Care to address it?

CaptainCourtesy · 02-18-07, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAGLE1

Naw Jenin you're wrong, those Israeli angels never did anything to anyone without first being attacked. Even then they always tried their very best to limit casualties. Those civilians that died just happened to be accidentally walking in front of their bullits or accidently moving their houses in front of bulldozers shells and tanks. Im surprised you havent realised this by now, but then you, like most of the world are the brain washed puppets of Al Queda whereas the Americans and the Israelis see things clearly. Quite simple.

Remember Jenin, in the ME Israelis =

the Arabs =

&

Your sarcasm is noted. Though not certainly not totally true, in reality, it is closer to the truth then the opposite is.

G-Man · 02-18-07, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy

Incorrect. I am talking about the RoadMap for Peace, set in 2002. Israel began their Gaza pullout on August 18, 2005, completing it on August 22, 2005.
CNN.com - Israel*empties Gaza's Gadid settlement - Aug 19, 2005
Final Israeli Settlement in Gaza Evacuated - Elites TV - Your Elite News Source
This is a fact and you are being disingenuous by not admitting it. Israel then left Gaza to the PA. Any subsequent incursion by Israel into Gaza has been caused by Palestinian aggression, alone.

BTW, Palestinians have not abided by one requirement mentioned in the RoadMap for Peace, which you have not addressed.

Roadmap for peace :-

Roadmap for Peace in the Middle East: Israeli/Palestinian Reciprocal Action, Quartet Support

"PHASE I:

Ending Terror and Violence, Normalizing Palestinian Life, and Building Palestinian Institutions

Palestinian leadership issues unequivocal statement reiterating Israel’s right to exist in peace and security and calling for an immediate end to all acts of violence against Israelis anywhere.
Israeli leadership issues unequivocal statement affirming its commitment to the two-state vision of an independent, viable, sovereign Palestinian state living in peace and security with Israel, and calling for an immediate end to violence against Palestinians anywhere.
Palestinian institution-building includes drafting a constitution for Palestinian statehood and conducting free elections.
Israel withdraws from Palestinian areas occupied since September 2000, as security progresses, freezes all settlement activity, and dismantles outposts. It takes measures to improve the Palestinian humanitarian situation."

Israel has never stopped its settlement activity so it would seem clear BOTH sides have failed to comply with the road map.

Israel has as little appetite for peace as Palestine I'm afraid.

Tashah · 02-18-07, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

Roadmap for peace :-

Palestinian leadership issues unequivocal statement reiterating Israel’s right to exist in peace and security and calling for an immediate end to all acts of violence against Israelis anywhere.

Perhaps you didn't read the OP or thread posts. Abba's Fatah faction participated in the planning/execution of this new murder-bombing and Hamas applauded it. In addition, Hamas has not revised its Charter calling for the destruction of Israel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

Israel withdraws from Palestinian areas occupied since September 2000, as security progresses, freezes all settlement activity, and dismantles outposts. It takes measures to improve the Palestinian humanitarian situation."

I bolded a different particular snippet. With the latest Palestinian murder-bombing and daily Qassam rocket attacks on Sderot, security is NOT progressing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

Israel has as little appetite for peace as Palestine I'm afraid.

Peace at any cost? No. We have no appetite for that recipe.

Volker · 02-18-07, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tashah

Perhaps you didn't read the OP or thread posts. Abba's Fatah faction participated in the planning/execution of this new murder-bombing and Hamas applauded it. In addition, Hamas has not revised its Charter calling for the destruction of Israel.

I don't know about a hint that Mr. Abba's Fatah faction is linked to this bombing. Shayah claimed it without giving an evidence, you claim it without giving an evidence. Empty accusations do not make a debate. Attacking people like happened to Red Dave here for pointing it out does not make a debate, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tashah

I bolded a different particular snippet. With the latest Palestinian murder-bombing and daily Qassam rocket attacks on Sderot, security is NOT progressing.

Nice try, from how the sentence is formulated, the snippet only applies to the first part and therefore does not address the topic discussed here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tashah

Peace at any cost? No. We have no appetite for that recipe.

This was not the question, but I doubt, the answer would be different to the original sentence. According to polls, most Israelis are interested in peace, not all. Probably you simply don't represent the majority.