ludahai

I'll remember you said that the next time that Taiwan is unable to get assistance from the WHO when children are dying from a variety of diseases that sometimes comes from China. If SARS crops up again, we will also remember the lack of assistance Taiwan gets due to its diplomatic isolation. Taiwan is treated like a non-entity by countries such as France. At least countries who love freedom like the United States and Japan treat Taiwan with far more respect.

As for a conflict, there is plenty of doubt as to the outcome, though your beloved French wanted to tip the balance in favor of the Chinese.

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Ludahai -魯大海
The Truth about the Chinese KMT, Taiwan's ruling party
KMT Terror Poster

Fried Rice

Dear ludahai

I do not think you are Chinese right ? No doubt your short time in China has made you expert far more than our thousands of years of Chinese culture ever could.

This "journalist" has now been charged and will go to court so world can see the evidence and judge accordingly. We Chinese believe in checking all facts even thought you seem to have already made up your mind.

You have learnt a few Chinese words (which is very good achievement) but you must not confuse that with some form of cultural understanding.

1 The Falun Gong in China and the Falun Gong outside of China are two different organisations. You only see one side of picture. I do not say all Chinese F.G. are bad as they are not, however the group has other motives that do not benefit the Chinese people.

2 Taiwan - the world recognises (inculding the USA) that Taiwan is part of China. It is for Chinese to decide if / when Taiwan ever become independant. You talk nonsense earlier about SARS / hunger. You may not know but it is Taiwan who will not allow direct cross strait communications etc and not China. If Taiwan chooses to voilate UN resolutions etc then there has to be some price to pay.

3 You say you love China and Chinese people but hate the Govt. Yet the Govt is the will of the Chinese people. We are peace loving nation, no terrorism, improving standards of living, and give open and free access to all, even those with disenting views such as your self. I doubt even USA so open these days as i hear it is hard to enter if you are muslim etc.

4 China is recognised as the new world super power yet we do not abuse our position. we seek peaceful resolution to Taiwan issue, support war on terror, have floated the yuan and many other measures on global stage. It is USA that is shrinking back like isolationist country.

Fried Rice is Proud to be Chinese

Urethra Franklin

You seem to be saying Taiwan would be better off if it accepted it's place as part of China.

But the US turned its back on Taiwan.

Your claim that the US loves freedom is laughable. Countries that love freedom don't selectively topple dictators in line with their own inetersts, and then allow that country to institiute a constitiution that will disadvantage 50% of the population (the women) it's claimed to have liberated. Countries that love freedom don't topple democratically elected governments (as in Chile) then stand idly by while their new friend tortures and murders thousands. The Chinese government is far from perfect, but you need to look a little closer to your real home.

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http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=-pW87BM_3fw

ludahai

I never claimed to be Chinese. However, being Chinese doesn't mean you understand the four thousand years of Chinese culture and history. There is no such thing as a culture gene. Sadly, the ChiCom government has done away with much of what made Chinese culture a truly beautiful culture. Some of it has been revived in recent years, but only a fraction of what was practiced before. In fact, in day to day life, more traditional culture is practiced in Taiwan than it is in China. [/quote]

First of all, I don't trust the ChiCom government. Chinese trials are not open, but are in reality little more than Kangaroo courts. They don't look at the evidence, they look at what the ChiCom government says and make a verdict based solely upon that. Allow reporters (unbiased reporters, not ChiCom mouthpieces) and allow the family of the reporter into the courtroom. The ChiCom government doesn't allow that either. I wonder why.....*hmmm*

I actually know more than a few words. I speak Mandarin rather well. I use it every day as few of my neighbors speak any English beyond the very basics.

Most Chinese only see one side of the picture, the slanted picture provided them by the ChiCom government controlled news media. You obviously don't trust your own people enough to make their own decisions in matters of religion or other matters.

Many countries do NOT recognize Taiwan as a part of China. The U.S., Canada and Japan (among many others) craft language that appeases Beijing, but in reality does not amount any more than acknowledgeing that the Chinese believe that there is one China and that Taiwan is a part of it, but the reality is that these governments don't officially recognize Taiwan as a part of China. Furthermore, from the standpoint of international law, it is quite irrelevant. There is no legally-binding treaty following World War II that transfers Taiwan from Japanese control to Chinese control. Treaties, NOT recognition, form the backbone of international law. A treaty is required to transfer sovereignty of a territory from one state to another, not recognition by other states.

As for UN resolutions, there ARE NO UN resolutions pertaining to Taiwan. Taiwan is not a UN member and was never a UN member. There is no UN resolution that says Taiwan is a part of China. Thus, there are no UN resolutions to violate. Being that your country violates any number of UN resolutions, not the least of which is the Universal Declaration of Human RIghts, you shouldn't be speaking of abiding by UN resolutions.

If the Chiense government is the will of the Chinese people and the government trusts the Chinese people, why not elections? The fact is that the Chinese government gained power through violence, NOT the will of the people. It maintains power through its control of the military and of the media, NOT through the will of the people.

As for China being peace loving, remove the 700 missiles that are pointed at the truly peaceful country of Taiwan. If China were a peace loving nation, the Chinese people wouldn't have attacked American diplomatic installations in 1999. If the Chinese were peace loving people, they wouldn't have attacked Japanese fans and diplomatic vehicles last year at the finals of the Asian Cup. The fact is that the Chinese people have become pawns of an unelected government who has no desire for peace, but would rather take what does not belong to them. Taiwan does not belong to them. The Senkaku (Diaoyu) Islands to not belong to them. The SOuth China Sea doesn't belong to them. THe Gulf of Tonkin (Beibu) doesn't belong to them. Tibet doesn't belong to them. For a country that is supposedly peaceful, they seem to want an awful lot of what doesn't belong to them.

China is at most a regional superpower. And that is only on land at this point. China has limited power projection capability at this point, not that the French don't want to help you to improve that. Fortunately, the rest of the EU has woken up to the true nature of the Chinese threat.

China has certainly abused its position on the Security Council, on matters ranging from Liberia to Haiti and Macedonia, China has used its veto power to influence the internal politics of those countries relating to their recognition of Taiwan.

The yuan is NOT being floated, it is fixed to a basket of foreign currencies. This basket has not even been released by the Central Bank. No transparency there.

China will resort to force regarding Taiwan once it feels like it can actually take over the country. If China were devoted to peacefully settling the situation, take away the missiles and let Taiwan determine its own future. Remember, you have no legal claim to this island. It belongs to the Taiwanese people, and no one else.

And you should be. The Chinese have a proud and glorious history and have the potential to have a glorious future. Once China's government begins to democratize and respect the rights of its own people, I will be happy to welcome them as a responsible member of the international community, and as a friend both to Taiwan and to the United States. Until that happens, Taiwan, Japan, the United States and the rest of the free world should be wary.

BTW, I prefer fried noodles to fried rice, but to each his/her own...

ludahai

No, because then Taiwan would lose the freedom that it now has. Of course, you have repeatedly voiced contempt for freedom and free nations, so I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

Democratic presidents have certainly turned their back on Taiwan, but not Republican presidents, nor have a large portion of Congressmen and Senators of both parties. Sure, Carter (a democrat) changed recognition and Clinton (a democrat) denied sales of advanced weapons systems. However, Reagan was a strong supporter of Taiwan as is the current president Bush. Remember, the U.S. DOES NOT recognize Taiwan as being a part of China, it only acknowledges the Chinese stance on the issue, nothing more.

THe U.S. can't topple every dictator in the world. It is better to have a constitution that allegedly disadvantages 50% of the population rather than 99% of the population.

As for Chile, that is often alleged, but with little proof to back it up. It is actually amusing that anti-U.S. people out there take as an article of faith that the U.S. CIA arranged the toppling of Allende, but there is little evidence to back that up, and plenty of evidence to point toward the fact that there was considerable domestic opposition within Chile to Allende at the time.

Comparing the U.S. to China is laughable. Are you claiming that China is a freer country with a more reponsible government than the United States? Be VERY careful how you respond to that question, should you dare tackle it in the first place.

Urethra Franklin

We obviously disagree on what we believe constitiutes freedom, but there was really no need to resort to slander and re-adopt your aggressive tone.





No, it can't topple those dictatorships it sucks up to as it wouldn't want to lose the benefits, often oil related (Saudi Ararbia, Uzbekistan etc.)

It would have been better to have a plan in place for the day after. The war's "won" hence so is Bush's election, but what then for Iraq? Nobody is defending Saddam, but your claim that 99% of the population were disadvantaged is an overstatement. Replacing one tyranny with another is no progress. Or are you OK with tyranny if it's religious tyranny? Or if it's only women who suffer?
Erm, Allende was elected democratically. As in all healthy democracies, there was opposition, but much of it was from the wealthy classes who didn't like the fact that cleaning up the poblacions and tackling poverty actually meant afew less diamond necklaces. Are you referring to the saucepan protests? Yes, the bored, bridge playing housewives of Santiago's chicer suburbs suddenly found something to do when the champagne was threatened with rationing. You're obviously fine with the fact that any "opposition" to Allende could result in widespread torture and murder - with the support of the US. I would point you towards two very good texts: Joan Jara's "Victor - An Unfinished Song" (written from a communist perspective - you won't like it) and Dr. Sheila Cassidy's "Audacity To Believe" (written from a christian perspective - you might just approach that with a more open mind).
They each have a very different approach to things. The Chinese government's made its mistakes, and no, I wouldn't defend an atrocity such as Tiannanmen. But I also wouldn't defend US inspired atrocities like for example Chile, Iraq or the bombing of Belgrade's radio station in the knowledge you would only have civillian casualties (the hairdressers and make-up artists who perished were hardly Milosovic's right hand men). As Fried Rice points out, China, for all its faults doesn't horse it's way around the world launching phoney wars based on lies in which innocents perish. What is unrivalled in the world, is the arrongance in US foreign policy for decades, and the untold harm that has done.

ludahai, this is not an attack on you, simply an observation. While I fully understand what it is to fall in love with a foreign country and make it your home, I think we should avoid the foreigner knows more about this place than the natives syndrome. I defend France, I criticize France, but I would never dare to speak FOR the French. I may have an opinion on how the French handle the Corsican separatists for example, but I don't make banging on about it my raison d'être. I think you need to stand back a little to have a more objective view on the whole Taiwan question. Look at your responses to frankguy and Fried Rice. Whilst you have every right to disagree with them, your responses simply dismiss them out of hand without demonstrating that you've actually considered what they have to say.

ludahai

Once I hear you state support for free nations in the world and not support totalitarian dictatorships, than I will stop saying that you are against freedom.


Many nations that have been close to the United States through the Cold War have opened up considerably from their days of totalitarianism. South Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines and Indonesia are but a few examples of nations with close U.S. ties that were authoritarian, but later democratized. Even Saudi Arabia has recently taken its first steps toward democratization due to behind the scenes U.S. pressure. Just because the U.S. has friendly relations with some totalitarian governments and doesn't browbeat them, it doesn't mean that they don't exert other forms of pressure.

OK, 80% of the population was disadvantaged, basically anyone who was not a Sunni Arab. Does that make you any happier? And there is no guarantee that a new constitution under a democratically elected Iraqi government is going to oppress women. WHat we DO know is that if the insurgents get their way, they will bring in a government that will not only oppress women, but will likely oppress Kurds and whatever ethnic or religious subgroup they don't happen to like.


As for Allende, I never said that he wasn't a democratically elected leader of Chile. What I pointed out is that while CIA involvement in his ouster is taken as an article of faith among U.S. haters, the fact is that there is little evidence for direct CIA involvement. You say nothing that negates the fact that there was significant domestic opposition to him and they were as likely as anyone to be involved in his ouster.

That is good to know. Is that the only atrocity of theirs you wouldn't defend? How about the oppression of the Tibetan people as well as people in Occupied-East Turkestan? How about their buildup of missiles against peaceful and democratic Taiwan? How about their claim to the Senkaku Islands and an EEZ that comes right up to the Japanese islands of the Ryukyu Chain? What about China's claim to the entire South China Sea? Don't forget, China's best friends are the likes of North Korea, Burma, Cuba, Pakistan, Iran, and Sudan!

Again, the Chile example is not proven. What is the atrocity in regards to Iraq, the efforts to free its people from a horrible dictator, or the insurgents who deliberatly target civilians while the U.S. did all it could during the invasion to limit civilian casualties. Do you think the bombing of the radio station was deliberate and without purpose? Remember, that Yugoslavia operation had the full blessings of NATOs military council. The U.S. got involved in that conflict reluctantly.

The Chinese haven't yet because they can't, it't that simple. The Chinese have a phoney claim on Taiwan. If they launch their missiles and invade this country, it will result in countless casualties. China's claims to the South China Sea are similiarly based on lies. The occupation of Tibet, which has been ongoing for more than five decades, is based on the lie that TIbet is historically part of China and that the Tibetan people welcome the presence of the People's LIberation (sic) Army. There is a difference between the U.S. and China in this regard. When Iraq is ready to stand on its own two feet, the United States WILL leave. Tibetans only dream that the ChiCom army will ever leave their country.

As for defending Taiwan and saying I know more about Taiwan than Taiwanese do, that is NOT the case. For one, Fried Rice and frankguy are NOT natives of Taiwan, they are natives of China. In China, it isn't as if there is a free media from which people can consult different points of view. In fact, websites around the world that present a different view from the one held by the Chinese government are routinely blocked. THis is especially true if the website is in Chinese. Taiwanese newswebsites are blocked in China. The reverse is NOT true in Taiwan.

I am only speaking for the right of the Taiwanese people to make their own decisions in peace. That is all I have ever argued for Taiwan. Taiwan is historically not a part of China, nor is it legally a part of China. That isn't a matter of interpretation, that is fact. It is up for the Taiwanese people to decide what kind of relationship they want with China (or not to have one at all.) I have never argued any differently. However, it is also clear that the majority of Taiwanese people have no desire at all to be a part of the PRC. Nearly all Taiwanese people I know refer to them as "Taiwanren" (Taiwanese nationality) and "Huaren" (Chinese ethnicity), but NOT "Jhongguoren" (Chinese nationality.) Many of those who do say the later out of habit (due to decades of indoctrination by the KMT occupation government) quickly correct themselves when it is brought to their attention. Generally, the only ones in Taiwan who consider themselves to be citizens of China are the Chinese who came to Taiwan in 1949 and illegally occupied and took control of the island.

All they know is what they have been brainwashed to say by their government. They have never made a case for Taiwan being legally a part of China in accordance with international law. It is that simple. Territory can only be transferred from one state to another by means of a treaty. There is no legally binding treaty between the PRC and Japan that transfers sovereignty of Taiwan to the PRC.

Urethra Franklin

The sheer arrogance of that statement destroys any fragile credibility you may have had.

ludahai

If you had lived in China for even a short period of time and actually followed their newsmedia, and knew how they kept differing opinions from their own people, you would know what I am talking about. However, since you don't speak Mandarin and you have never lived in China, you would have no idea of which I speak.

Urethra Franklin

You claim to love the Chinese people yet the last thing you want to do is actually listen to them. You live in a fantasy world of mythical, dragon-chasing people philosophising over Confucious (forgive possible mis-spelling?) but the reality is that the Chinese nation has taken many different turns of history and moved on (and whether you like it or not, Taiwan has been a part of that). It would be like me coming to France and dreamily imagining I could be Amélie Poulin, sitting in brasseries smoking my Gitanes discussing what Sartre actually meant by existentialism. Contemporary France is a different ball game, and I accept that. I rather feel that frankguy and Fried Rice have a better feel for contemporary China (Taiwan included) than some foreigner who's spent a bit of time there. Your marriage to a local gives you insight but hardly makes you the expert you imagine. Honey, I've been with a Senegalese guy for years - hardly makes me an oracle on African affairs.

Many nations of the world have controlled media, including many of your precious capitalist ones, and most people know how to read between the lines. You dismiss our Chinese friends here out of hand as brainwashed because you don't want to have to consider their point of view. They have the audacity to disagree with you, hence they're brainwashed - rather an arrogant stance if you think about it. Far from being brainwashed, they both seem like intelligent guys with valid points of view to discuss. They've obviously got access to the internet and international news; nothing stops them coming on a site like this to be exposed to capitalist, christian and even nazi views. And Fried Rice is hardly towing the party line as an out gay man is he?