Makhno

*strongest

But I think the rest of my post still counts.

Tashah

And how does one measure *strongest? Provide a citation please.

I'm sure it has some measure of propaganda value.

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Makhno

I was actually quoting CaptainCourtesy's post, I assume you trust its legitimacy.

Yes, and we know, it's the truth.

Tashah

And CaptainCourtesy satirically played on Jenin's assumption. Touché

We? C'mon Arafat. We agree on nothing

Makhno

And you.


...

GarzaUK

Disgusting!

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They tried like hell. They called him an élitist, a radical, a socialist, a Marxist, a Muslim, an Arab, an appeaser, a danger to the republic, a threat to small children, a friend of terrorists, an enemy of Israel, a vote thief, a non-citizen, an anti-American, and a celebrity. ~ George Packer

Jenin

Those people who happened to be here, did not have to leave, and, in fact were asked to stay during the UN deliberations
They left and could not have stayed because Zionist forces were massacring populations of strategically chosen villages inorder to force the palestinians to leave 'Transfer' (Ethnic Cleansing) Zionist Quotes
I am Israel – I have been attacked by my Arab neighbors on at least 5 occasions in major engagements and countless other times in minor ones.
1948 - Israel was created, eviction, massacre of palestinians 'plan d' was in effect, ove 55% of historical palestine, owned and inhabited by palestinian arabs for 1,300 years was proclaimed jewish state property, the arabs rejected the theft of palestine offered by the UN under zionist influence and opted to end the zionist regime in palestine for one complete palestine instead.
1956- Israel invades egypt along with the British and French racist powers
1967- Israel invades 4 arab nations and occupies their lands
1973 - Sadat and Syria fight israel to regain their lands which had begun to be settled. Sadat had warned that the exclusively jewish settlement of yamit on egyptian land occupied by israel would lead to war.
1982- Israel invades and occupied lebanon for 18 years, still occupies the sheba farms

My people and my children, going about their daily lives have been slaughtered for just being Israeli.
Palestinians, seeing no end to their humiliation, subjigation and occupation...seeing the continued expansion of settlements on land stolen by the zionist state respond in desperation with acts of violence. most palestinian suicide bombers are the children, parents or relatives of someone murdered by israeli bombing, snipers, tanks, settlers.

I am Israel – created out of 56% of the land of Palestine. Arab inhabitants were given equal rights and asked to stay
Arab inhabitants were expelled from Jaffa, Haifa, massacred in deir yassin, massacred in any village that did not bow down to the Israeli occupation of it, terrorized and threatened by death if they did not leave

Jews from all over the world, many persecuted, are welcome. Inhabitants who have left are allowed the right of return as long as they agree to live in peace with Jews here
Palestinians expelled by terror, force, and those who left for fear of their lives will never be allowed their right of return because they threaten the 'jewish majority' on this land stolen from them and because their homes have been populated by jews or demolished. they hold keys to homes and deeds of ownership to land that is now never their property and is officially property of jews thanks to our glorious war for their destruction just like our white 'christian' american friends did to the native of america...all jews are welcome to israel but the native refugees must never and will never be allowed back, we are a democracy for all as long as we maintain jewish supremacy

If you don’t want your civilians to be killed, don’t place military weapontry or fire weapons near them
The Palestinians will continue to stand against the goliath of israel even if they are out powered..because they have a right to resist occupation and will not be coerced or cheated out of the west bank by israeli force... a just solution must include the rights of those natives expelled and the right to an undivided, un settled west bank and gaza and east jerusalem with the golden dome of the rock and al-aqsa on the holy sanctuary as their eternal capital. the blood of every palestinian who was killed since zionism emerged will not be devalued with a ghetto bantustan for a nation.

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"A child becomes a man when he knows what came before him" -- Anonymous
"Conquerors, my son, consider as true history only what they themselves have fabricated"
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The%...ut%201948.html

CaptainCourtesy

Makhno. Tashah got it. You didn't. My post was a take off on Jenin's. I used his information and redirected it away from the anti-Israel spin that it was. If I had wanted to create something completely original, I certainly could have. My point was to show the spin of the OP, which I think I did quite well.


I have a better idea. Perhaps if the Palestinian government denounces it's own charter which is aimed at the destruction of Israel, told it's people to stop murdering Israeli citizens in Israel or capturing Israeli's from Israel, arrested those that planned or did either of these, and start taking resposibility for their part in this whole mess, including not telling their children it's OK to hate and attack Israeli's then perhaps Palestinians would, finally, be able to show that they take wanting peace, seriously, rather than just giving lip service to the world, in order to get self victimization sympathy.

Until this happens, I stand by my statement.

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"Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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CaptainCourtesy

More anti-Israel spin. I have some personal stuff going on that may limit my DP time, this weekend, so if anyone wants to refute/dispell this, be my guest. Not too difficult, though I'd want to address each point with cites in order to dismantle the spin stated here, which will be time-consuming. If no one else does, I'll get to it. One thing to start with. It'd be nice if the Palestinians could take responsibility for their part in the Middle East problems, instead of doing nothing but playing the victim-blame game. This issue is, by no means, one sided.

Edit: On second thought, rereading the post, I stand by my original. Nothing in your response disproves anything I said, but rather presents an anti-historical view of most of the points presented. Please offer non-biased, historical cites for such things as any of your claims about the wars, evidence of your claims about the suicide bomber's family members (percentage please), and evidence of widespread massacres of Arabs during the time Israel was formed. Until you do that, you have offered nothing but a typical Israel-hating viewpoint, one with gross exaggerations, misinformation, and overgeneralizations. Typical.

Gardener

Typical, but unfortunately, too often successful.

How many people in the world arrive at their opinions through rational analysis and how many arrive at their opinions based upon the preponderance of opinions they hear from others and the emotional appeal of these opinions?

Deconstructing arguments based upon logic and fact has little effect upon those who do not base their own opinions on such. The sort of mindless propaganda being dispensed by this hateful plagiarist might not succeed with people who are intelligent and rational, but it DOES succeed with those who only react emotionally and in accordance with the prevailing orthodoxy of view point. It's like that old line our Mothers liked to tell us in regards to "if all your friends jumped off a bridge....?", what really counts isn't so much Jenin's various falsifications, but the fact that there are so many Jenins, and that their viewpoint dominates by sheer numbers the way it does.

Seems to me that in order to construct an effective counterpoint to propaganda, one needs to realize the level at which such propaganda operates. I doubt whether an intellectual response to an opnion set based upon emotion and conformity will ever have much success. It may have some success with those with enough intellect and innate fairness as to be open to such counterpoints (which may be your own intended audience), but the demonization of Israel has been so successful that hatred towards Israel is now established orthodoxy for hundreds of millions, if not billions of people.