shuamort

Simple question with most likely a complex set of answers.

vauge

I believe it is conception.

Fantasea

These seem like a good place to start the debate. Go to it.

Science is in Agreement: It's a Human Life
"Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception (they defined fertilization and conception to be the same) marks the beginning of a human being -- a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings...”
-Report" Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary S-158,97 Congress, 1st Session 1981, p. 7

Pro-Abortionists Agree: It's a Human Life
Abortion Provider Admits that Abortion Kills Babies:
In 1965: "'An abortion kills the life of a baby after it has begun. It is dangerous to your life and health. It may make you sterile, so that when you want a child you cannot have it."
-Planned Parenthood “Plan Your Children for Health and Happiness” 1965

In 1989: "'Women are not stupid - - women have always known that there was a life there."
-Faye Wattleton. Past President of Planned Parenthood. NBC television broadcast. May 15. 1989

shuamort

Here's Planned Parenthood's answer from their website:

Q: My friend says that life begins when the egg and sperm join together. I say that it begins when a baby takes its first breath. Which of us is right?

All kinds of people — theologians, philosophers, scientists, lawyers, legislators, and many others — hold very different views about when life begins. In fact, both the egg and the sperm are living things before they meet and join. There's no real argument there.

The really hot question is, "When does being a person begin?" Most medical authorities and Planned Parenthood agree that it starts when a baby takes its first breath.

Some of our oldest religions have changed their views about this question many times over the centuries. Today, some people sincerely believe that being a person begins when the egg is fertilized. Some, just as sincerely, believe that it begins with birth. And lots of others believe it begins somewhere in between.

What we are all sure about is that a pregnant woman is a person. We know for sure that she has morals, feelings, human needs, and a conscience. Because of this, we know that she is the only one able to make a decision about her pregnancy options. She does it based on her own needs, ethics, and religious belief about when being a person begins. It would be wrong to force her to observe someone else's religious belief.

Montalban

Again you introduce evidence that says "I don't know".

I like the very weak argument starting with "Some of our oldest religions have changed their views about this question many times over the centuries." Such a truism doesn't add any weight... what it is is an attempt to undermine religious viewpoints by saying "Well, science can't tell you, but then religion doesn't know either".

__________________
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shuamort

Hmm, can't say that I submitted it as "evidence", but if that's what helps you get through the night. I've introduced an opinion that reflects my own opinion. You can find scientific evidence that a fetus has thought at this age or fingerprints at that age or insemination occurs here or an egg has life there. That's all evidence. Your interpretation of that evidence is also called opinion.

Fantasea

Main Entry: [1]ev·i·dence
Pronunciation: 'e-v&-d&n(t)s, -v&-"den(t)s
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 a : an outward sign b : something that furnishes proof

I don't see any room for disputing or interpreting the scientific evidence you cite.

shuamort

And that's your opinion, isn't it?

Fantasea

Wiggle and squirm all you wish. You can't get out of it.

shuamort

Get out of what?