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Homeschooling

Jerry...I'd checked out the HSLDA information, and like 1069, had deemed them too biased to be used either for or against my position. Thus far, I have been unable to locate any independant studies on this topic. The IES site that 1069 quoted, I've had bookmarked for a while and used it in my 'same sex' argument. When searching the site a couple of days ago, demographics were the only statistics I could find concerning the homeschooling debate.

This seems like an extremely underresearched issue. Someone could make a name for themselves by examining this...perhaps some inquisitive DPers...

Anyway, the search continues...
 
1069 said:
Not saying that information is wrong, precisely, but it is from a site called the "Home School Legal Defense Association" (HSLDA).
And the general tone of it reads like a promotional advertisement for homeschooling.
Somehow, I'm not convinced.

This table- for example- is from the HSLDA site, so one would assume that if it is biased at all, it is biased in favor of homeschooling, in light of the fact that it comes from a homeschooling advocacy organization.
I see that few of those who are homeschooled end up in professional careers.
Is the percentage of formerly home-schooled professionals comparable to, greater than, or less than the percentage of professionals in the general population?
That's the sort of thing I'd be interested in knowing... and it is information that is conspicuously absent from this HSLDA site.
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2573 of the 5247 are full time students, so we can not yet say that they "ended up" anywhere yet. Continuing one's education is a boon, not a bane.

Of the remaining 2674, 1515 are in "professional careers".

Of the remaining 1159, 383 are raising children in the home and are thus under no obligation to persue a "profesional career".

So, we only have the ability to impune the outcomes of 776 of the 5247, which is only @ 15%.

1069 said:
Well, here's a government education site: The National Center for Education Statistics.
Here's another link to it: click.
See, I'd be more willing to put stock in an unbiased source like that.
However, I really don't care that much and I'm too lazy to go searching government websites for statistics about homeschooling versus traditional education.
But maybe one of you homeschooling advocates (or detractors) can.
Click to expand...

Been there, looked at that, all I could find were statisics of demographics, not acidemics or socialization.

1069 said:
link [/COLOR]

Because, see, this sort of thing above makes me very leery of trusting anything reported by the HSLDA website.
It is not about "facts", and it is certainly not "unbiased".
Having an agenda is not an inherently bad thing; every organization has one.
But the agenda of HSLDA is obviously to promote homeschooling.
And I'd prefer to turn for factual statistics to an organization (such as the government department of education) which has a less obvious vested interest in promoting one form of education over others.
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You haven't shown that home schooling is a thing not to be promoted, so I don't understand the source of your objection.

So what if there is an endorsement of religion? The absence of Federal Funding in home school automatically removes the Wall of Separation, so religion is fair game.

The mere endorsement of God is not evidence of corrupted data.

Maybe you don't trust it, but I believe that that is your not trusting the Church, not necessarily a given site's research.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Jerry...I'd checked out the HSLDA information, and like 1069, had deemed them too biased to be used either for or against my position. Thus far, I have been unable to locate any independant studies on this topic. The IES site that 1069 quoted, I've had bookmarked for a while and used it in my 'same sex' argument. When searching the site a couple of days ago, demographics were the only statistics I could find concerning the homeschooling debate.

This seems like an extremely underresearched issue. Someone could make a name for themselves by examining this...perhaps some inquisitive DPers...

Anyway, the search continues...
Click to expand...

I have to disagree.
I have seen no evidence showing that an endorsement of religion has corrupted their data. Though the 2 elements are present in the organization, in so far as I can tell the religion is separate from the information.

....but yes, the search goes on....
 
Of the remaining 2674, 1515 are in "professional careers".
Click to expand...

Hmm. The number I'm getting is somehow 462, rather than 1515.
A rather large discrepency.
It appears that one of us is incorrect.
 
1069 said:
Hmm. The number I'm getting is somehow 462, rather than 1515.
A rather large discrepency.
It appears that one of us is incorrect.
Click to expand...

Lemy opin it back up real quick....running out of time for tonight......

Farmer/Farm Manager: 14
Manager: 127
Military: 68
Office worker: 313
Operator of machines: 8
Owner of small business/restaurant, contractor: 129
Professional 1 (accountant, etc.) 359
professional 2 (Doctor, etc): 103
School teacher (not collage): 82
Technical (computer programmer, etc.): 232
Trades person (carpenter, etc.): 80

I get 1515.
 
Jerry said:
....nope...you probably won't like them either ‘cause they believe in God.......I'll keep looking....
Click to expand...


I think what we'd like is a source that oversees education in general.
Not "The Home Life Academy".
Not "The Home School Legal Defense Association".
Not the "Public Schools Are Run By Godless Heathens So Keep Your Kids Home" League.

Not necessarily the "Secular Humanist Association for the Advancement of Public Schools", either.

Something unbiased.

As the Cap'n pointed out, however, there doesn't really seem to be any unbiased research into the homeschooling phenomena.
It looks like a great opportunity for an enterprising guy like you to make a name for yourself, Jer...
 
Here's a good resource, again from the National Center for Education Statistics.
link

In the sidebar at left, you'll see various reports such as "The Characteristics of Homeschooled and Nonhomeschooled Students", "Homeschooling Rates by Student and Family Characteristics", "A Multivariate Analysis of Homeschooling", "Summary and Future Research", and "Parents’ Reasons for Homeschooling".

Somebody feel free to delve on in and give us the abridged version.
 
Jerry said:
Lemy opin it back up real quick....running out of time for tonight......

Farmer/Farm Manager: 14
Manager: 127
Military: 68
Office worker: 313
Operator of machines: 8
Owner of small business/restaurant, contractor: 129
Professional 1 (accountant, etc.) 359
professional 2 (Doctor, etc): 103
School teacher (not collage): 82
Technical (computer programmer, etc.): 232
Trades person (carpenter, etc.): 80

I get 1515.
Click to expand...


... and I still get 462.

Perhaps it's because I never went to high school. ;)
 
1069 said:
I think what we'd like is a source that oversees education in general.
Not "The Home Life Academy".
Not "The Home School Legal Defense Association".
Not the "Public Schools Are Run By Godless Heathens So Keep Your Kids Home" League.

Not necessarily the "Secular Humanist Association for the Advancement of Public Schools", either.

Something unbiased.

As the Cap'n pointed out, however, there doesn't really seem to be any unbiased research into the homeschooling phenomena.
It looks like a great opportunity for an enterprising guy like you to make a name for yourself, Jer...
Click to expand...

Public Schools Are Run By Godless Heathens So Keep Your Kids Home

Secular Humanist Association for the Advancement of Public Schools

At least you think your funny.
 
1069 said:
Here's a good resource, again from the National Center for Education Statistics.
link

In the sidebar at left, you'll see various reports such as "The Characteristics of Homeschooled and Nonhomeschooled Students", "Homeschooling Rates by Student and Family Characteristics", "A Multivariate Analysis of Homeschooling", "Summary and Future Research", and "Parents’ Reasons for Homeschooling".

Somebody feel free to delve on in and give us the abridged version.
Click to expand...

If your looking for in depth research on the demographics, growth of number and possible impact that home schooling will have on public school institutions, this is the site for you.

If you are looking for research on social development and/or academic performance of home schoolers, google something ells. I found no such information in any of the posted research in this site.
 
I teach school and in a recent team meeting we heard a bit of interesting data. Our social worker told us that our home-schooling program is full. We can't assign kids to home-school anymore!
The team leader and I were both flabbergasted, but it was explained that even if parents opt for home-schooling they have to submit to monitoring by the state and here in the district we don't have enough qualified monitoring staff!
ted
 
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I’m hoping that as a teacher you have an inside lead somewhere….

Could you link to some government statistics on home school academics and social development please?
 
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HSDLA is apparently all over the place. I find them on the friendly side of a few ACLU legal actions and in military home school support sites. HSDLA research is evidently good enough to hold up in court...but not at DP?

Heh, maybe this just represents how corrupt our courts have become ;) :2razz:
 
My children will not be homeschooled. I don't really want them to go to private school either, so I'm going to be aiming to live in an area where there are high quality public schools that offer good advanced curricula, such as NYC.

I think that education is obviously a large part of the point of primary/secondary school, but that socialization and the ability to interact with others is a crucial skill as well. Learning how to deal with bullies, become confident in yourself, interact with members of the opposite (or same, however you roll) sex, and deal with both fair and unfair grading systems is absolutely essential. For all its flaws, I don't think there is a better place to learn these skills than public school.

Plus, I would never dream to ask my wife to give up her career for our kids if I weren't prepared to do the same, which I won't be yet.
 
I think that education is obviously a large part of the point of primary/secondary school, but that socialization and the ability to interact with others is a crucial skill as well. Learning how to deal with bullies, become confident in yourself, interact with members of the opposite (or same, however you roll) sex, and deal with both fair and unfair grading systems is absolutely essential. For all its flaws, I don't think there is a better place to learn these skills than public school.
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I would add, learning to submit to (or negotiate relationships with) authorities, other than parents.
Authorities who do not love you, or care about you as an individual, except in the most impersonal and business-like way.
This is an important lesson that school teaches, and it's a crucial one that everyone must master if they are to be successful in our society.
 
1069 said:
I would add, learning to submit to (or negotiate relationships with) authorities, other than parents.
Authorities who do not love you, or care about you as an individual, except in the most impersonal and business-like way.
This is an important lesson that school teaches, and it's a crucial one that everyone must master if they are to be successful in our society.
Click to expand...

So incredibly true, very good point. That's probably one of the most important skills to have, and I can't imagine having to learn it starting at age 18.
 
Felicity said:
have you tried "unschooling"

Unschooling

Unschooling
Click to expand...

As interesting as that seems, I feel that it would leave a child utterly unprepared for the reality of a world that is so heavily focused on structured and standardized measurement.

Like it or not, a constant of our society is that there will always be standardized measurement, and learning how to adapt to, prepare for, and beat these measures is one of the most important skills we can have.
 
RightatNYU said:
My children will not be homeschooled. I don't really want them to go to private school either, so I'm going to be aiming to live in an area where there are high quality public schools that offer good advanced curricula, such as NYC.

I think that education is obviously a large part of the point of primary/secondary school, but that socialization and the ability to interact with others is a crucial skill as well. Learning how to deal with bullies, become confident in yourself, interact with members of the opposite (or same, however you roll) sex, and deal with both fair and unfair grading systems is absolutely essential. For all its flaws, I don't think there is a better place to learn these skills than public school.
Click to expand...

Got some links to the information which you base your view on?

I mean, you apparently hold the view that home schoolers are somehow socially stunted or inferior to public school kids, and I have been searching for some unbiased sources for a while now, so if you could link to the information you use that would be a great help to everyone on this thread; on both sides of the issue.

RightatNYU said:
Plus, I would never dream to ask my wife to give up her career for our kids if I weren't prepared to do the same, which I won't be yet.
Click to expand...

Career over children, aye?
 
As a public school teacher, I can attest to the fact that there is no panacea. Some kids are TOO adept at "negotiating relationships with authorities" and some are miserably banging their heads against a brick wall. It seems every term in almost every class I find the reason to give the"you know..being an educated person is not about what grade point you carry" speech accentuated by a happy sing-song of Kum-by-ah, followed by the "sometimes you just have to be the trick pony who jumps bravely through the flaming hoop" speech--followed closely behind with the "I know I'm smart--why do I have to prove it?" diatribe and an uncontested command for them to "Now get to work!".
 
1069 said:
I would add, learning to submit to (or negotiate relationships with) authorities, other than parents.
Authorities who do not love you, or care about you as an individual, except in the most impersonal and business-like way.
This is an important lesson that school teaches, and it's a crucial one that everyone must master if they are to be successful in our society.
Click to expand...

Premise: Teachers don't care about students.

That's part of the problem, though.

Your post gives reason to opt out of the public education institution.
 
RightatNYU said:
So incredibly true, very good point. That's probably one of the most important skills to have, and I can't imagine having to learn it starting at age 18.
Click to expand...

What sources do you have which show that home schooled children do not submit to authorities other than their parents?

If you have actual data please post it.
 
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