Originally Posted by teacher

We all saw a large fuel laden plane fly into a tower. It is not hard to imagine the rest. Class class shut up thank you. The Towers moved their structural steel normally placed from the core to the face all to the face to provide large column free spaces. To do this the floors were formed of long metal trusses from the core to the face. Long SPAN. Brainwashed monsters flew a plane into a tower. The mass destroyed many face columns before ripping a floors high, wingspan wide, path of sprinkler head shredding, fire wall penetrating, fire retardant removing, giant flue through our nations pride. Parts went clean through to set other buildings on fire. It is truly horrible to think the dispersion of the full tank's jet fuel through this swath. But first Mass x Speed = Force and the force of impact is spread with a bulge opposite of impact and the shock wave going up and down. Kinetic energy is absorbed by the swaying of the building. A building designed to withstand the impact of a plane stands. Fire. At the very least a large plane shaped area of sprinkler heads have been shredded. Instead of spraying water everywhere, just in one spot then straight down. Not a lot of coverage for the jet fuel infernal that starts. Have you ever stood on a ladder and had to remove a small piece of sprayed on fire retardant on structural steel to give good purchase for a mechanical fastener? I have. I used a small flat head screwdriver. I think as all the debris of the plane was shredded by the structural steel it also stripped the sprayed on fire retardant while being shredded. Have you ever stopped to notice the plasma over a puddle your welding? Do you take time to make yourself notice that tiny inferno while cutting a straight line through 1" steel with an oxygen/acetylene torch? Do you have any concept of the riddle of steel? Many have heated metal to make it easier to shape. These long spans between core and face are being heated over their about 1000 degrees Fahrenheit temperature where it loses rigidity. Heated spans sag like a BBQ grill. Sagging trusses increase pressure on truss to face anchor bolts above shear strength and fail. Young man give me that knife. Thank You. Domino. Floor falls on floor unable to bear weight of above falling floors weight and its own with its own sagging. Pancake. Can you imagine the mix of fault, tamper, alarm and normal signals the lower floors received and what the ensuing outputs did? Did any elevator go to where it should? Did a pathway of dampers fail and force toxic smoke to a area unaffected? No I will not view more than the first 2 minutes of that 911 garbage by he who remains unnamed. Facts? You saw the tape. See how hard it is to bend a fork then heat in middle and try. Homer say "Doh". Plane's mass exposes too great a surface area of structural steel to plane's fuel fed flames causing sag of trusses due to high temperature weakened steel leading to truss to face anchor bolt shear strength excision. What's my point? That 911 tape author is either trying to make money or actually going out of his way to lie to change one's perception of the truth. If the later then that is a bad person. Who would do such a thing? My Honorably Discharged self would like to give him the what for. They did it. Class dismissed.

Originally Posted by alan

Teacher,

You may have background in structural engineering, etc, but there are several points you are conveniently ignoring. Also, you display a profound ignorance of geo-political history and the acknowledged history of black-op false-flag operations & the sociopathology of power when you attack me as someone who just "hates Bush". (But I'll save that for another post.)

You: "News blackout? No. 7's collapse is small news compared to the big towers. Why dwell on #7 when the towers are much more sensational."

That's like saying that if you have a triple murder case, why mention the 3rd murder AT ALL in the OFFICIAL police Report (!) if the first 2 murdered were more important. Weak logic, Teach. You should know better.

I said: According to the government, small fires leveled this building, but fires have never before or since destroyed a steel skyscraper.

You:"Fires destroyed the big towers. Steel towers."

Missing the point. Planes hit the towers. No plane hit Bldg.7 and those fires you theorize about, they were very small and limited to isolated corners of the 7th & 12th floors. Find me ONE other example in the history of Steel Buildings when a building fell straight down into it's footprint just from a small corner fire. You CAN'T! It doesn't happen!

Me: and why has the media remained silent?


You:"No story here. If there was the parasitic vultures we call media would give an eyeball to break something like that."

Again, displaying your profound ignorance of how the media works and the fact that the same few owners of the consolidated mainstream media are the same interests who benefit from 9-11 & perpetual war. Look it up. It's public knowledge. Do I have to hold your hand?

"Now this is indicative of BS conspiracy theory in itself. Of all the video these nuts chose only to show low grade film none of which show the collapse with a view of the lower floors."

There is video of the lower floors. I've seen it and can find it for you if you're too lazy. But ofcourse there won't be close up video of those small fires WHILE the building's collapsing! People were cleared out and could only see & film from a distance. Duh!

OK, I'm just getting started but I need to run. I'll come back and finish you off later...

Originally Posted by alan

Teacher,

You may have background in structural engineering, etc, but there are several points you are conveniently ignoring. Also, you display a profound ignorance of geo-political history and the acknowledged history of black-op false-flag operations & the sociopathology of power when you attack me as someone who just "hates Bush". (But I'll save that for another post.)

You: "News blackout? No. 7's collapse is small news compared to the big towers. Why dwell on #7 when the towers are much more sensational."

That's like saying that if you have a triple murder case, why mention the 3rd murder AT ALL in the OFFICIAL police Report (!) if the first 2 murdered were more important. Weak logic, Teach. You should know better.

I said: According to the government, small fires leveled this building, but fires have never before or since destroyed a steel skyscraper.

You:"Fires destroyed the big towers. Steel towers."

Missing the point. Planes hit the towers. No plane hit Bldg.7 and those fires you theorize about, they were very small and limited to isolated corners of the 7th & 12th floors. Find me ONE other example in the history of Steel Buildings when a building fell straight down into it's footprint just from a small corner fire. You CAN'T! It doesn't happen!

Me: and why has the media remained silent?


You:"No story here. If there was the parasitic vultures we call media would give an eyeball to break something like that."

Again, displaying your profound ignorance of how the media works and the fact that the same few owners of the consolidated mainstream media are the same interests who benefit from 9-11 & perpetual war. Look it up. It's public knowledge. Do I have to hold your hand?

"Now this is indicative of BS conspiracy theory in itself. Of all the video these nuts chose only to show low grade film none of which show the collapse with a view of the lower floors."

There is video of the lower floors. I've seen it and can find it for you if you're too lazy. But ofcourse there won't be close up video of those small fires WHILE the building's collapsing! People were cleared out and could only see & film from a distance. Duh!

OK, I'm just getting started but I need to run. I'll come back and finish you off later...

Originally Posted by alan

OK, Teacher. Why don't you explain WTC #7 for me. Remember 7? Most Americans don't even know about this 47-story building that collapsed into it's footprint on the afternoon of 9/11, even though NOTHING hit it! They showed it on National TV on 9/11, but there's been a complete news blackout ever since. They don't even mention it's collapse at all in the Official Commission Report! Hmmm. Why do they want us to forget about this? Why? Because it's the SMOKING GUN that proves our gov't's involvement.
Look at the videos in the links I've provided:


http://www.wtc7.net


Building 7 was the third skyscraper to collapse into rubble on September 11, 2001. According to the government, small fires leveled this building, but fires have never before or since destroyed a steel skyscraper.

The team who investigated the collapse were not allowed access to the crime scene. By the time they published their inconclusive report, the evidence had been destroyed.

Why did the government rapidly recycle the steel from the largest and most mysterious engineering failure in world history, and why has the media remained silent? (Some of the rubble from Ground Zero went to New Jersey, but all the sections that would explain the collapse were recycled as described above)

(IMG:http://wtc7.net/docs/streamers.jpg)
Half-way through Building 7's 6.5-second plunge, streamers suggestive of demolition charges emerged from the facade.

Videos Show Building 7's Vertical Collapse.
The survival of several video recordings of Building 7's collapse, though of low resolution, allow study of the building's motion and the time of collapse.

Each of the following videos shows the entire visible portion of the building falling with a vertical precision otherwise seen only in controlled demolition. Moreover, they show that the collapse took only about 6.5 seconds from start to finish. That rate of fall is within a second of the time it would take an object to fall from the building's roof with no air resistance.
(IMG:http://www.wtc7.net/docs/wtc_7_cbs_s.jpg)

Video Broadcast by CBS - 1.4mb - mpeg
This 36 second video shows Building 7 from an elevated vantage point to the distant northeast.

(IMG:http://wtc7.net/docs/wtc7_collapse_s.jpg)

Video from NBC news camera - 1.5mb
This 9 second video shows the Building 7 collapse from a vantage point about mile to the northeast on West Broadway.

(IMG:http://www.wtc7.net/docs/wtc7_collapse2_s.jpg)

video broadcast on CBS - 1.7MB - mpeg
This 9.6 second video shows the Building 7 collapse from a vantage point only about 1000 feet to the north.


World Trade Centre 7 was a Controlled Demolition! (which takes at least a full week to prepare. Are we supposed to believe Bin Laden did that?)

Originally Posted by teacher

Not sure how to do this so we have this back and forth quote thing that youwill have to go to post#29 to view and then my ensuing tiraid.
Now that your text has been torn a new one let me speculate from the poor videos I saw on what might have happened. Class in session.
On your links I read there was no reason for the fires to start. (This is so easy). Did you not see the planes hitting the big towers? Did you not see the amount of debris fly straight through them? Did you see the pictures of one of the planes engines laying on a street corner? Do you think dense objects (engines and such) go from 500mph to 0 in the span of the inside of the towers?

Here is ONE way it could happen and this comes straight from my brain seeing only poor videos and using com mom (though educated) sense.

A dense flaming piece of wreckage shoots through the big tower to land inside #7 on a lower floor. There WILL be a test on this. Imagine a sprinkler system like a tree. On a lower floor is something called a fire pump. Water does not magically flow up it needs to be forced through ever smaller growing pipes as it goes up. The fire pump forces water at great pressure through at first large pipes called risers. Taps from risers spread out to smaller pipes at each floor to feed sprinkler heads. The fire pump is not on all the time or its pressure would cause pipes or heads to eventually fail thus necessitating the water to be shut off and the call for a guy with a mop to go out. The pump is turned on by an initiating device. A smoke detector, pull station or any number of fire devices. Now the pump does keep some pressure in the pipes at all times. Say a sprinkler head is set of somewhere. Water flows out that head. In sprinkler pipes is a device called a flow switch. It senses water flowing through the pipe. It also is an initiating device. All these initiating devices are connected to a fire control panel (FCP). The FCP sends a signal to the fire pump relay which turns the fire pump on full bore. This signal goes over a pair of 16 guage wires (on an addressable FCP) to the fire pump relay. Now back to our flaming debris. Say this piece cuts the wire going to the fire pump. Now none of the sprinklers in the entire FRIGGIN building work. The fire in#7 burned for 7 hours. The fact that it burned for 7 hours tells me the sprinkler system is not working. I also saw somewhere in your little site that they said the steel then must have magically turned to jelly for the structural integrity to fail. They said this snidely. What those dumb asses don't realize is that is exactly what happened. All structural steel on modern buildings has some sort of fire RETARDANT. Not fire proofing. This gives it a fire rating. So much time at such a temperature before it fails. This gives time for evacuation (the occupants being made aware by notification devices. Horns, strobes, voice evac ect.) and for the fire department to come put out the fire before failure of fire retardant.Hang onto your knickers and think harder now. The big towers fire retardant was stripped away by the fast moving debris exposing steel right away to high temperatures causing steel to lose its rigidity quickly causing the collapse. #7 kept its retardant but with sprinklers not working the fires kept on bringing us to the temperature/time equation. 7 hours that building stood. If the F.D. was not so busy with the big towers this would be plenty of time to extinguish these fires. But alas those heroes were a tad busy.how dare you suggest our own government would wontonly kill its own citizens, police, and firefighters for what, to stoke the coffers of the military industrial complex I suppose you might say. Does your blind hatred of Bush so addle your brain that logic becomes ungraspable, making you clutch at any feeble straw to validate you allconsuming ire? But I digress]. So that LARGE fire on the lower floors had its time to weaken the steel. Just one lower floor collapsing sets into motion all that static kinetic energy. Unstoppable. That is exactly why your silly little videos show the whole building come down together. The very video you think proves your silly theory exposes the truth. You would have been better off not pointing me in that direction. Now I know more. Teacher HAS learned. To the embarrassment of the foil hat crowd. Now it is preponderant upon you to face facts or continue wandering through life with your blinders on and fingers in your ears murmuring "I hate Bush. I hate Bush". To those of you with any sense asking why I bother with this crowd its because this is serious business. BS like this draws people away from the fact that those terrorists did this and will not stop ever unless the full force and intellect of the U.S.A. bears down on them with our best and brightest. 20 years ago our biggest problem was the red menace. Well our great nation took care of that to the betterment of the ENTIRE FRIGGIN WORLD. We surely can take care of this terrorist problem but this crowd makes it that much more difficult. An unnecessary distraction to those who do good. We can not let incorrect BS sway the minds of the easily fooled deter our leaders from what must be done. Not staying this course will doubtless eventually lead to a nuke in our back yard. That is an "I told you so" I can go without uttering. Class dismissed.

And by the way. Alan. I notice you have one post only and its pointed at me. Makes one think.

Originally Posted by alan

Teacher,

You may have background in structural engineering, etc, but there are several points you are conveniently ignoring. Also, you display a profound ignorance of geo-political history and the acknowledged history of black-op false-flag operations where I & the sociopathology of power when you attack me as someone who just "hates Bush". (But I'll save that for another post.)

You: "News blackout? No. 7's collapse is small news compared to the big towers. Why dwell on #7 when the towers are much more sensational."

That's like saying that if you have a triple murder case, why mention the 3rd murder AT ALL in the OFFICIAL police Report (!) if the first 2 murdered were more important. Weak logic, Teach. You should know better.

I said: According to the government, small fires leveled this building, but fires have never before or since destroyed a steel skyscraper.

You:"Fires destroyed the big towers. Steel towers."

Missing the point. Planes hit the towers. No plane hit Bldg.7 and those fires you theorize about, they were very small and limited to isolated corners of the 7th & 12th floors. Find me ONE other example in the history of Steel Buildings when a building fell straight down into it's footprint just from a small corner fire. You CAN'T! It doesn't happen!

Me: and why has the media remained silent?


You:"No story here. If there was the parasitic vultures we call media would give an eyeball to break something like that."

Again, displaying your profound ignorance of how the media works and the fact that the same few owners of the consolidated mainstream media are the same interests who benefit from 9-11 & perpetual war. Look it up. It's public knowledge. Do I have to hold your hand?

"Now this is indicative of BS conspiracy theory in itself. Of all the video these nuts chose only to show low grade film none of which show the collapse with a view of the lower floors."

There is video of the lower floors. I've seen it and can find it for you if you're too lazy. But ofcourse there won't be close up video of those small fires WHILE the building's collapsing! People were cleared out and could only see & film from a distance. Duh!
OK, I'm just getting started but I need to run. I'll come back and finish you off later...

Originally Posted by alan

Teacher,



Conveniently? ignoring? Sir, my personal ethics don't allow for such. I'm not going to hell over obviscating trivialairities on a web site, yes I am that way.



That is because this was a giant event. Other fires were responded to in a timely fashion with due attention to the fire. One of your sites stated the fires burned for seven hours. The F.D. was overwelmed. I salute these heroes. A little fire long annatended can cause huge damage. You say later in your post if I'm too lazy. Before responded to your post I did research (I typed WTC#7 collapse on a search engine) and viewed a still such as seen at (wtc7.0catch.com) see the 16th still down. It shows a large amount of smoke coming from a low floor. That, sir, be no small fire. That amount of smoke does not seem idicative of a small and isolated fire on the 7th or 11th floor. I read your entire post. From your post it seems you did not read all of mine. Ever read Ludlum? Sorry to say but it is like that out there. How about this. In the ensuing bedlam of the towers impact a ready group or individual was ready in or near to #7. These guys pulled the plane thing off. Never assume for a minute that they don't have the knowledge (learned in our very own educational system thank you. Ah, the price of freedom) or the will. Anyway in the chaos it would be a simple thing to disable the FACP (Fire Alarm Control Panel) thus disableing the sprinkler system. Ignite a incenderary device at a strategic point. This point could be obtained with blue prints through the freedom of information act or a timely bribe to some city clerk. So now without any piece of wreckage from the planes hitting #7 we have a fire in #7 with the fire suppression system compromised. Can you like me read blueprints? With such the emporer has no clothes. Carte blanche. These savages had buku time to think of these things. Me, it comes as I type. So a building not touched by the planes collapses thus distracting the foil hat crowd with the cries of "conspiracy" and distracting your otherwise sensible minds to utter "black ops". (he he sorry private inside joke, can't extrapolate I signed a document). Ever seen Iraq's foriegn minister Teriq Azziz on Meet the Press? (I hear he is now singing like a canary). He had that look into the camera, eyes unblinking, hands folded, not giving anything up better than any, while telling lies, with the exception of Leon Paneta. If I'm not mistaken they teach that at Ft. Huachuka. Anyhow being that they know people like you exist in this country they have a ready made flock of sheep all to willing to cry "black ops" thus deflecting your maybe normaly patriotic minds to the cry of "Bush did it". The cold war DID train many to the concept of disinformation, subterfuge, counterintelligence, using the weak minded pawns of an established nation to the ends that you yourself speak to. All without your realization you have been played. Black ops my freind? Not so. Maybe you have been played exactly as how they intended. I would be interested to know whether you ever raised your right hand and swore allegance to this country as I have. I did NOT take it lightly. I STILL DON'T. These people use our very freedom, our very uncompromising access to information, our tendency to view our own government as the bad guys, against us. You are the exact thing they hoped to acomplish. Shame. Have you served in our great military? Have you ever lived in another country thus giving you something firsthand to compare against? If not then I post against the uneducated. If so then what happened? if you think these things then you are a....bet you thought I was gonna go there eh vauge? 7 fell because of unattended fires. Simple. My long wandering paragraph speaks to your following drivel.




Besides my previos paragraph you find me ONE instance where long burning fires have been left unatended?

....vauge?....


?



See prevoius smite.


Duh? Just keeping the public put of harms way. Way to go NYC's best. I salute you.

I state all this viewing only your suggested sites and two others. Don't make me research. Put your foil hat back on a reinsert thumb to mouth.

Bring it.