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U.S. Speeds Up Bomb Delivery for the Israelis

White said:
Do think that it´s a good thing when they kill lebanese civilians ?

I don´t think that it´s a good thing!

Hezbullah likes to hide in those "civilian areas". It would defeat the purpose to not invade the civilian places.
 
BudLizard101 said:
Who was to say that it would, or would not produce results? You never know until you try.

Yeah, well that is the logic behind Hezbollahs actions in kidnapping the soldiers in the first place. They thought if they kidnapped the soldiers then they would get some of theirs back. By your logic, I guess how can you blame Hezbollah, after all you never know till you try. :roll:

Sorry, but historically it is known that Israel does not give in to kidnapping demands, so there is where the logic failed on Hezbollahs part.

Second, no military action by Israel has been able to bring home any of their soldiers that were kidnapped, so there is that logic thing getting in the way again.

Who was to say that it would or would not produce results? History has said this.
 
TheNextEra said:
Second, no military action by Israel has been able to bring home any of their soldiers that were kidnapped, so there is that logic thing getting in the way
again.
Yet. You mean yet.

Note that you have created something of a strawman here, in that at this point, the objective of the operation isnt just to get those soldiers back, but to render Hezboulah impotent.
 
Goobieman said:
Yet. You mean yet.

Note that you have created something of a strawman here, in that at this point, the objective of the operation isnt just to get those soldiers back, but to render Hezboulah impotent.

Not really a strawman as history has also shown that in guerilla warfare you have to either completely decimate the enemy along with anyone else in the area or have it put down by the people themselves by winning the hearts and minds.

Isreal is trying to use a conventional Army against guerilla soldiers and it isn't going to work IMO. Either Isreal compeltely destroys all of Southern Lebanon (Innocent and Hezbollah alike, which they will not do) or the people of lebanon will have to get rid of Hezbollah which they have not and doesn't appear they will do either. So the war will continue without the goals being met. Hezbollah may be out for awhile, but not out. History has shown this.

That is why guerilla wars are soo hard to fight. Using conventional warfare in a guerilla warfare is like trying to get rid of a small group of ants in a backyard without killing the entire colony. It simply cannot be done.
 
TheNextEra said:
Yeah, well that is the logic behind Hezbollahs actions in kidnapping the soldiers in the first place. They thought if they kidnapped the soldiers then they would get some of theirs back. By your logic, I guess how can you blame Hezbollah, after all you never know till you try. :roll:

Sorry, but historically it is known that Israel does not give in to kidnapping demands, so there is where the logic failed on Hezbollahs part.

Second, no military action by Israel has been able to bring home any of their soldiers that were kidnapped, so there is that logic thing getting in the way again.

Who was to say that it would or would not produce results? History has said this.

"By your logic, I guess how can you blame Hezbollah, after all you never know till you try" -- since when did i say that if you try, you aren't to blame? i said that you won't know the results until you try. remember, re-read before you post. you are still responsible for your actions. it's just the RESULTS that you don't know.

"Sorry, but historically it is known that Israel does not give in to kidnapping demands, so there is where the logic failed on Hezbollahs part." -- since when do terrorists have any logic? "let's kill some Jews and maybe we'll get some land! it hasn't been working for the last half century, but i have a good feeling today" is not very logical.. now is it?

"Second, no military action by Israel has been able to bring home any of their soldiers that were kidnapped, so there is that logic thing getting in the way again." -- The IDF brought back countless hostages i nthe past, so yes, by using LOGIC... you could assume that the IDF would be able to bring back these hostages. Just b/c they haven't been able to do it within 2 weeks doesn't mean they'll never do it. oh, one more thing, when a soldier get's kidnapped, isn't it easier to trap him inside a smaller area(like you know.. when you hit the main roads so travel is harder) than finding him in the entire gaza strip, or egypt, or syria, or iran, etc, etc. B/c i'm fairly certain finding someone in land area of 10sq miles is easier than 10,000sq miles. But that could just be me.. :roll:
 
TheNextEra said:
Not really a strawman
Yes, a strawman, in that you are arguing that Israelis doing what it is doing because of 2 captured soldiers. It is also doing what it is doing becase of the 8 soldiers killed in the same raid that captured the 2, and the rocket attacks that started once Israel responded to same.

Isreal is trying to use a conventional Army against guerilla soldiers and it isn't going to work IMO.
Hizboulah has a conventional military organization, intended to carry our conventional military operations. Israel is trying to lure these forces out into the open so they can be destroyed.
For reference:
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/israel/articles/20060723.aspx

Either Isreal compeltely destroys all of Southern Lebanon (Innocent and Hezbollah alike, which they will not do) or the people of lebanon will have to get rid of Hezbollah which they have not and doesn't appear
False dichotomy. There are numerous ways Israel can come out a winner here, not just the two you postulate.

So the war will continue without the goals being met. Hezbollah may be out for awhile, but not out. History has shown this.
His tory has not shown what Israel can do when the leash is taken off - and the leash has been taken off. Whatever historical precedents you're looking at dont in any way necessarily apply here.

Remember, Hezboulah is more than an insurgent/terrorist group - they are a quasi-governmental organization, with all the usual apparatus of the same. You might notbe able to kill every member, but by ripping apart its structure and destorying its apparatus, you can elimninate it as a credible threat.

That is why guerilla wars are soo hard to fight. Using conventional warfare in a guerilla warfare is like trying to get rid of a small group of ants in a backyard without killing the entire colony. It simply cannot be done.
What yu dont seem to understand is that's not what is really happenein gin Lebanon.
 
TheNextEra said:
Yeah, well that is the logic behind Hezbollahs actions in kidnapping the soldiers in the first place. They thought if they kidnapped the soldiers then they would get some of theirs back. By your logic, I guess how can you blame Hezbollah, after all you never know till you try. :roll:

Sorry, but historically it is known that Israel does not give in to kidnapping demands, so there is where the logic failed on Hezbollahs part.

Second, no military action by Israel has been able to bring home any of their soldiers that were kidnapped, so there is that logic thing getting in the way again.

Who was to say that it would or would not produce results? History has said this.


What has NOT produced results: pulling out, making concessions, negotiating.
What has worked: creating buffer zones. Where there are buffer zones, there is peace (Egypt, Syria). Israel is currently trying to create another buffer zone to keep peace with Lebanon.
 
Has it occured to anyone that getting more precision weapons to Israel sooner is a humanitarian action, being that precision weapons kill less civilians-even when the enemy hides behind civilians?
 
aquapub said:
Has it occured to anyone that getting more precision weapons to Israel sooner is a humanitarian action, being that precision weapons kill less civilians-even when the enemy hides behind civilians?

Thanks for reminding people, aquapub. I said something similar in post #8.
 
TheNextEra said:
And right there you prove your rabid right "if you disagree with anything we say, you must be a terrorist supporter" thought. Like most of the rabid right, you ASSume much and don't listen. I never said that Hebollah needs rescuing, but like a little rabid yapping Chewowow, you ASSume because I disagree with how they are doing it, I am for Hezbollah.

The only thing I was stating is the fact that NO terrorist organization has been pounded to oblivion as you think they can in this manner. The terrorist war is a guerilla war and the only way to win a war like that is to pound EVERYONE into obvlivion (including all the innocent people) or to win the hearts and minds and have the people put down the terrorists. Israel is doing none of this and neither is the U.S. Therfore, it is only the logical conclusion of what I said earlier and this will only diminish Hezbolah for a while or blow up into a full war.

By attacking Lebanon, all it is doing is supporting the notion that the west and Israel want to destroy the arab world. Now the reality is that is not the case, but try telling that to the family your bombs just fell on.

So please take your rabid right thought, bend over, and shove it straight up your bunghole where it belongs.

Dude, you are advocating doing what the U.N. is calling for, which is to 'reign in' Israel by demanding a cease fire. Pardon me, but that IS coming to the rescue of the terrorists! The U.N., BTW, is the useless piece of garbage organization responsible for this conflict by not disarming Hezbollah to begin with, not putting enough U.N. troops in Lebanon to make sure it did not become a Hezbolla stronghold like they said they would prevent. They have screwed this whole thing up and now, after telling us to mind our own business in Iraq, they are now begging for us to stop Israel from attacking terrorists! (The U.N. wanted us to butt out of Iraq, BTW, because they did not want us to learn and inform the world that they had set up a black marketing scam designed to make them - like the Criminal Leader Koffi [WHY is he still leading the U.N.?] - make the U.N. criminals a personal profit through breaking privately every sanction they passed publicly against Iraq for 12 YEARS, propping up a dictator who was raping, torturing, and murdering thousands of his own people the whole time!) I don't think you are a 'rabid liberal' for your agreeing with the idea that 'we just need to let the U.N. handle this and rein Israel in! I don't think that at all - I think you are ignorant and naieve, but it has nothing to do with party affiliation at all!

Hezbollah is NOT a guerilla warfare, small time organization. Hezbollah is an extremely well funded, armed, and manned am of Syria and Iran - hell, there are Iranians in Lebanon NOW helping Hezbollah fire off the missiles. Israel is not just fighting Hezbollah terrorists but Iranian and Syrian trained FORCES right now! This is an all out war for the TRUE freeedom of Lebanon and the security of Israel! 58 years of attacks, 58 years of empty promises and resolutions from the U.N., 58 years of the rest of the world who wouldn't take this crap for a month telling Israel to 'use restraint' and not fight back.....

Winning the hearts and minds is a great idea...except when 13000 missiles are pointed at you, many being fired at you all the time, suicide bombs shredding your people on busses, and your soldiers being kidnapped. If winning the hearts and minds is the answer, not killing those who are committing the terrorism and attacks against you, hell - WE should have just started a PR campaign after 9/11 to win the hearts and minds of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda instead of going after them, right!? And - you can NOT win the hearts and minds of Islamic Extremists who believe everyone who is not Muslim and accepts Allah is God should have their head cut off! You and many Liberals do no - WILL NOT - ever understand that. Islamic Extremism is the 'Master Race' of our time determined to enslave/take over the world. Not every Arab/Muslim believes that, but Israel has not been attacked by EVERY Muslim and are not fighting EVERY Muslim today. They are fighting a rabid, extremist enemy who do not believe in tolerance or the ability to live in harmony with Israel. When you fight an enemy that will sacrifice itself to kill you and who will NEVER stop coming, never stop hating, never stop trying to kill you - winning their hearts and minds is not the 1st/an option!

This will diminish Hezbollah, as well as Iran and syria's reach/influence in Lebanon, free Lebanon once and for all, and provide more stability and peace in that area.....IF, and ONLY IF, the U.N. gets off its collective @SS, fills the void in Lebanon once Israel starts to withdraw, sees to the remaining Hezbollah are kicked out of Lebanon and or are totally disarmed - according to their own resolution 1559 from 2001, and set up shop in Southern Lebanon to creat a buffer zone/make sure Hezbollah does not return! (News reports are coming in from Southern Lebanon showing pictures of tons of ammo stockpiled in house after house in Bint Jubail, Lebanon and other towns they are fighting in - Hezbollah is holding Lebanon hostage, using human shields and using civilian structures as ammo depots and bunkers!) The U.N. is the 'wild card', or should I say 'worthless card', here! If they FINALLY do their job, things could improve.

I have very little confidence in the U.N., especially led by Koffi Anon, to do anything. Today, for example, Israel is having to do ALONE what the U.N. promised to do back in 2001!

You can disagree with me all day, until you are blue in the face....but, as it was pointed out to Madeline Albright when she said we should sit down with Hezbollah and Israel to negotiate a cease fire, WE DON'T NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS! They are not a goverment - they are a terroist group! We also don't own Israel, don't control Israel - they are a sovereign nation, not our lap dogs. We can't just say 'stop' and they will do so. We, of all people, should NEVER tell another country anyway that they can not defend themselves!

For once, I agree with taking the advice given to the President by Koffi, Kerry, Dean, etc before the Iraq war - 'butt out and mind your own business'!
 
Right on Easy65! Great post!! :2wave:
 
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