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Keeping your PC/LapTop Clean after that first year [W:39]

mike2810 said:
I have been using home computers for many years. Heck I remember when dialup went to 56K and I though what a break through. How times have changed. Last month was the first time I had a major virus hit my machine. The virus got past the protection software, disabled it, wiped out part of the registsry, even disabled access to the internet.

Ryan5, explain why Microsoft Security Essentials is not adequate for the average user. It would seem Microsoft would have a vested interest in keeping PC running well.

I am not saying Norton or other pay for service virus protection is not good. While MS is not ranked as the best, national reviews tend to state its not bad either.

IMO, no company can keep ahead of virus/malware, etc. 100%. You are correct in that the virus protection software is only as good as the database it has to work from.
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What makes me doubt Microsoft is that it makes its living selling me new computers. ;)

That, combined with having had numerous problems with Internet Explorer (especially on this site), make me just a little suspicious about their motives.

Oh, afterthought! I downloaded Chrome and made it my default in my new computer. Somehow, Bing has hijacked my search bar. My search bar should be Google -- just like my Chrome browser. When I figure it out (have the time), I'll fix that -- but the nerve!!
 
MaggieD said:
What makes me doubt Microsoft is that it makes its living selling me new computers. ;)

That, combined with having had numerous problems with Internet Explorer (especially on this site), make me just a little suspicious about their motives.

Oh, afterthought! I downloaded Chrome and made it my default in my new computer. Somehow, Bing has hijacked my search bar. My search bar should be Google -- just like my Chrome browser. When I figure it out (have the time), I'll fix that -- but the nerve!!
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I understand and somewhat distrust MS.

It was talking to not just one but two PC repair shops
Computer Guys and DataDoctors.
They both pretty much said that MS security essentials is as good as most paid virus protection software for home use.

When I was working, can't remember what they used for virus protection, but the IT guys says while it may be avaiable for home use, its not the same program. Commercial/Business software for large networks is different. Or so I was told, That was 9 years ago. (can't believe I been retired that long). oh well.
 
mike2810 said:
I have been using home computers for many years. Heck I remember when dialup went to 56K and I though what a break through. How times have changed. Last month was the first time I had a major virus hit my machine. The virus got past the protection software, disabled it, wiped out part of the registsry, even disabled access to the internet.

Ryan5, explain why Microsoft Security Essentials is not adequate for the average user. It would seem Microsoft would have a vested interest in keeping PC running well.

I am not saying Norton or other pay for service virus protection is not good. While MS is not ranked as the best, national reviews tend to state its not bad either.

IMO, no company can keep ahead of virus/malware, etc. 100%. You are correct in that the virus protection software is only as good as the database it has to work from.
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Haven't tried (or heard) of the MS essentials but honestly, MS made IE.... I wouldn't ever trust Microsoft 'free' software. It fundamentally is no different than the freeware others offer. Paid antivirus is cheap anyways lol. It's like refusing to pay for three fast food meals. Honestly... This is basically an ideological argument of lunacy made by people who use complicated OS's that 99% of people don't use (so obviously they could care less).


I wouldn't trust a nice PC with MS essentials and I firmly don't believe that if someone is running correctly a paid *major* company antivirus that they're computer was ruined by a virus getting through. They probably didn't have the antivirus running somehow or something.



It's not really a complicated, depthful argument as people in this thread deceivingly make it out to be. Nobody would try and argue that a free real world service is going to give you the quality of a paid one, yet for computers people seem to think otherwise illogically so. There somehow is a disconnect perhaps because you can get some free things online that people confuse that with the idea that the internet somehow is immune to the real world rule of paid quality versus unpaid quality. It isn't.


ALL major corporations use paid antivirus. You people are simply wrong. They are not equal. One is better than the other lol which is why people go out and buy them.
 
Ryan5 said:
Haven't tried (or heard) of the MS essentials but honestly, MS made IE.... I wouldn't ever trust Microsoft 'free' software. It fundamentally is no different than the freeware others offer. Paid antivirus is cheap anyways lol. It's like refusing to pay for three fast food meals. Honestly... This is basically an ideological argument of lunacy made by people who use complicated OS's that 99% of people don't use (so obviously they could care less).


I wouldn't trust a nice PC with MS essentials and I firmly don't believe that if someone is running correctly a paid *major* company antivirus that they're computer was ruined by a virus getting through. They probably didn't have the antivirus running somehow or something.



It's not really a complicated, depthful argument as people in this thread deceivingly make it out to be. Nobody would try and argue that a free real world service is going to give you the quality of a paid one, yet for computers people seem to think otherwise illogically so. There somehow is a disconnect perhaps because you can get some free things online that people confuse that with the idea that the internet somehow is immune to the real world rule of paid quality versus unpaid quality. It isn't.


ALL major corporations use paid antivirus. You people are simply wrong. They are not equal. One is better than the other lol which is why people go out and buy them.
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You can believe me or not, Ryan. I know what happened. The software was Trendmicro. Had been using it for 8 years. It was up to date, and the settings were correct for active protection.

Is the virus software let say Norton the same for home use and what is installed for a major corporation network and desk pc's?

I will agree that there are some free antivirus software available for use that is not worth the download time.

My laptop Pc has been running MC security essentials ever since it became avaiable. No issues. Loads quick, takes less resident memory. I will say I do not go to questionalbe sites on the internet.

Each to his own Ryan. In this case I find MS provides just as good as protection as my old paid antivirus.

I will try and keep track. I have Trend on two PC's and MS on another. All get about the same on line time per year. Stay tuned.

As far as IE and your comment, yes IE is free. But wait so is Chrome, Firefox, etc. Yes some browsers are better than others.

FYI a few reviews on MSE.
The bottom line: Microsoft Security Essentials 2 will protect you, and it will generally do it well. However, its impact on system performance could be improved, and it's still a bit light in the tool belt.

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=5310&review=Microsoft+Security+Essentials+Review
Conclusion
Microsoft hit the nail on the head with Security Essentials -- this antivirus suite is simple to use, proactive, and best of all, free of charge for genuine Windows users. It is also extremely efficient with system resources. Security Essentials is not as fully-featured as other players' antivirus suites including Norton and ESET, but it provides as the name implies -- essential protection. I personally would not have a problem paying for this software if Microsoft charged for it.
To those looking for an antivirus suite or want to upgrade their existing, we highly recommend investing two minutes to download and install Microsoft Security Essentials.
 
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Okay I understand all the above but I mean, you have to give the paid crowd this. People don't just go out and buy a paid antivirus for no reason. OBVIOUSLY they tried free versions..and.......drum roll.....they didn't work. It isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a matter of confusion. Paid antivirus could not exist if it wasn't better. It just couldn't. The market dictates such. Norton would never sell a copy. Ever. The free stuff would simply clobber it if it worked as you all say.


Obviously there's a missing component somewhere and it seems to be that there is a strong ideological movement that resents paying for protection and even more resents the fact that their freeware doesn't actually work and the public see's this and goes out and pays money for paid ones. That scenario couldn't happen if the free ones worked well.


And it's just not true that they do. I've installed them on numerous systems on the insistence of people and they always become the MOST fervent paid supporters shortly after.. I wonder why lol..
 
Ryan5 said:
Okay I understand all the above but I mean, you have to give the paid crowd this. People don't just go out and buy a paid antivirus for no reason. OBVIOUSLY they tried free versions..and.......drum roll.....they didn't work. It isn't a conspiracy and it isn't a matter of confusion. Paid antivirus could not exist if it wasn't better. It just couldn't. The market dictates such. Norton would never sell a copy. Ever. The free stuff would simply clobber it if it worked as you all say.


Obviously there's a missing component somewhere and it seems to be that there is a strong ideological movement that resents paying for protection and even more resents the fact that their freeware doesn't actually work and the public see's this and goes out and pays money for paid ones. That scenario couldn't happen if the free ones worked well.


And it's just not true that they do. I've installed them on numerous systems on the insistence of people and they always become the MOST fervent paid supporters shortly after.. I wonder why lol..
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I've been using AVG free edition for 10 years with no issues...
 
Ryan5 said:
I'm a Computer guy and I notice that most people, from all walks of life, even those who are into computers, generally don't realize that the $600-1200 computer they just bought will be utterly destroyed by the end of the year in almost all cases because they're simply unaware of basic measures to perform to keep that from happening. I'll have gamers that went out and spent $1700 on a computer simply go out and buy another one after a year because theirs is completely destroyed. It's shocking. They're willing to go pay a paycheck for a computer but they're not willing to learn how to protect it. And you can only imagine if the gamers can't protect their computers (they can't) then the others are completely hopeless cases (they are).



After going through those stages myself when younger, and having spent probably $5-7k before realizing buying new computers wasn't the answer. I have reached a sweet spot. Have had the same system going for the last 3 years and it's still going from day 1 quality thanks to literally less than 5 steps that you should (and NEED to do) every week at bare minimum at least once unless forking over $1000+ for a new PC every year is just not an issue to you.


Key truths to know beforehand:


-Free antivirus, free anti spyware DOES NOT WORK. Corporations don't use them and they're all about getting the most for their dollar. If Corporations don't trust their crap $500 computers with free antivirus software, why do you think that is? (Here's a hint: It isn't because you know more than the corporations, you don't know more than their IT guys rest assured. Free antivirus programs ONLY protect you from the 500 newest threats created 4-5 months ago. In other words, the 50,000+ threats created in the last month they don't protect your computer against at all. In other words, free antiviruses are 100% worthless and do not actually protect your computer. Repeat. If you have free antivirus on your computer, your computer is actively being destroyed as we speak.)

-Paid antivirus software covers the latest virus definitions. It DOES work. Free antivirus software covers the virus definitions from 4-5 months ago. Guess how much that helps your computer? None. They are worthless. How can you expect them not to be? Paid Antivirus companies pay employees to sit there all day finding the latest virus definitions and blocking them. Free antivirus doesn't (and obviously) can't do this.



So here are steps that can help you save your computer and make it last years.



-Use a major brand paid antivirus program and update it regularly. You can get one for as cheap as $30 for a year. That's less than three fast food trips in cost to protect your $900+ computer for a year........Yeahhh. Get realistic.

-Don't use Apple Computer products. PC's are more powerful and now that you're going to be able to keep it clean, there's no point in using weak Apple garbage. Ugh. Disgusting Apple Computers. Blah.

-Now. Do exactly as I say. Right click on your desktop. Create New Shortcut. Create the shortcut name MSCONFIG. After creating it, find it on desktop and open it. LEAVE THIS SHORTCUT ON DESKTOP FOREVER. Go to the Startup Tab. Here is what has been raping you for a long time. It's time to kill the rapist. Disable all the 3rd party programs such as Skype, Apple, Itunes and the other 20 junk 3rd party programs that are obviously not needed on startup. This is what slows your PC down when you start it. You can still manually open these programs, they just won't autostart from now on (which is good).

-Run the Disk Defragmenter at least once every 3 weeks.

-Run File Cleanup once every 3 weeks.

-Go to the Computer on Run, click it, find it in the window and right click it and go to properties. Go to the Tools tab and find where it says Error Checking. Click check now and when the box pops up, check BOTH the boxes and run the check. DO THIS ONCE A MONTH! THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS THAT NOBODY EVER TOLD YOU TO DO. IT IS PROBABLY THE ONE THING THAT IS THE DECIDING FACTOR BETWEEN YOUR COMPUTER SLOWLY DYING OVER A YEAR AND OR RUNNING GREAT FOR 4-5 YEARS!!! I have run this on $2000 computers that were near death and, because this check had never been run, after it ran for 3 hours fixing things, the computer literally went back to day 1 out of box system quality. This should be run once a month. It fixes and maintains the HardDrive from slow but assured errors that accumulate and destroy the computer internally. Computer companies DO NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT THIS (because the Hard Drive IS your computer).
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There are so many things idiotically wrong with this I don't even knwo where to start. First off, there are plenty of decent free antivirus programs. I used AVG for years and never had any infections, despite doing a lot of file sharing and looking at sketchy porn websites.

And I don't know anyone that pays for a new computer every year because theirs is full of viruses and ****. Who are these mysterious peole you know that are doing this?

Nest, there's nothing all that wrong with applae computers. They're made for idiots and they're really expensive, but they're no more virus prone than PCs are.

Disk defragmentor doesn't really need to be run that often unless you have a really full hard drive, and doesn't need to be run at all if you have an SSD.

I've never once run either file cleanup or error checking, and my last three computers lasted for 4, 4, and 3 years respectively. So much for needing to do that every month.

You're a stupidhead.
 
Aside from software, here's another valuable tip...

DUST.

If you have a desktop, open the case up and use canned air to blow all the dust out (it helps to have a vacuum cleaner hose to suck up the cloud as you spray). If you have a laptop, use the straw to blow through the fans and/or cooling fins.

My last couple computers lasted well systemically, but eventually died from the fans gunking up, or overheating.
 
I pay for antivirus, ESET is by far the best they know what they are doing and they are not annoying in any way.
 
mike2810 said:
and the debate will continue on virus protection for PC's/

I was using a major virus protection software. Made sure it was updated before I went on line. Guess what , picked up a virus.
It was nasty enough I would have had to reformat the hardrive if I tried to clear it out myself. So I went to a PC shop (national pc repair shop). They clean up the PC for a reasonalbe fee.

There advice.
Installl Microsoft Essentials (to run as active)
Spybot (to scan once a week or so to keep pc clean)
Malwarebytes (to scan once a week or so to keep pc clean)
CClearner.
and that is what I had them do to my pc,

So, not to say the original OP is wrong. The post has some interesting and good advice. However, I will have to disagree on the Virus protection part.
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Microsoft Security Essentials use to be good and it is still quite good in removing viruses but independent tests have shown that it is not good in preventing them getting on the machine in the first place. It is a bit sad because MSE is very light weight and was my preferred AV 2-3 years ago.
 
I build computers as a hobby... both high end and low end... manage the IT department at my medium sized office, and consult for just about everyone I know on computer issues. I usually recommend one of the free anti-virus programs for average users. The paid programs may be more robust and may scan for viruses that date back further, but they are usually far more bloated than the free programs, and often create conflicts with other programs. Norton and McAffee are the worst, and for the average user, the bells and whistles they contain are not worth the price. I have installed AVG on every system I have built for the past 10 years. No one has ever gotten a virus.

As for the other suggestions in the OP. I agree with cleaning out your start up folder. This is one thing that I constantly look for. Just cleaned out the startup folder of a colleague; made her computer start up MUCH quicker.

Defragmentation is not needed. It hasn't been something that has been necessary since Windows 98. With increased memory, increased size of hard drives, and increased hard drive cylinder speeds, the benefits of deframentation are minimal.

The File Cleanup and Error Checking suggestions are OK, but for the average user who surfs the internet, does word processing, some photo manipulation, and other light activities, it really isn't necessary.

The best ways to take care of your computer are to not go onto any dangerous websites, to always close out programs correctly, to upgrade utility programs such as anit-virus, anti-spyware, video viewing (especially flash), browsers, and anything that you tend to use a lot. This will help programs to not have compatibility issues. Always be aware when you are installing a new program. Often a program will add hidden bloatware. Be very aware of what you are installing.

One thing to always remember is the only way you can REALLY destroy your computer is with a sledge hammer... other than hardware failure. I always tell people this, and if they remember, their enjoyment of their computer goes up tremendously.

The only other suggestion I often make is, if you can and know how, reformat your computer and reinstall everything once every two years. It's good practice to keep things running smooth. When I build a system, I usually create an "installation disk" with all of software that is installed on the computer when it is new. I used to put them on DVD drives, but now I put them on flash drives. That way, it is easier to get the system back to a "new" state.
 
Moderator's Warning:
And let's stop the personal attacks.
 
Hate to disagree with you, but I have never had issues with Norton.

McAfee... that will never touch my computer.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Hate to disagree with you, but I have never had issues with Norton.

McAfee... that will never touch my computer.
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Eh, YMMV. I've had issues with both, at times.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I have installed AVG on every system I have built for the past 10 years. No one has ever gotten a virus.
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Have you done it recently? They have added malware into AVG now :( well... what I consider malware. Their new PC tune up crap. It moved AVG from recommended to "stay the hell away from it" in my book. It is now in the same box as iObit software (Advanced system care and iObit Anti Malware)... really sad.

The best ways to take care of your computer are to not go onto any dangerous websites, to always close out programs correctly, to upgrade utility programs such as anit-virus, anti-spyware, video viewing (especially flash), browsers, and anything that you tend to use a lot. This will help programs to not have compatibility issues. Always be aware when you are installing a new program. Often a program will add hidden bloatware. Be very aware of what you are installing.
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Yes READ WHAT IS ON THE SCREEN!!!!

The amount of people who just press next without reading is mind boggling. Many programs, even major ones (like flash or Chrome), ask if you want to install X program as an extra. DO NOT DO this! Most are toolbars and toolbars are not needed and frankly malware. Removing toolbars can often speed up your browser and PC...

In danish we have a saying... most faults on a PC is an error 40..... which means that the error is sitting 40 centimeters from the computer screen.

The only other suggestion I often make is, if you can and know how, reformat your computer and reinstall everything once every two years. It's good practice to keep things running smooth. When I build a system, I usually create an "installation disk" with all of software that is installed on the computer when it is new. I used to put them on DVD drives, but now I put them on flash drives. That way, it is easier to get the system back to a "new" state.
Click to expand...

Windows 8 FTW! It has the ability to do much of that.. and built in.

Start page > Charms menu (move mouse to the right of the screen) > Settings > Change PC settings > General and scroll down. 2 Settings... "Refresh your PC without affecting your files" and "Remove everything and reinstall windows". Brilliant addition to Windows imo.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Hate to disagree with you, but I have never had issues with Norton.
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Problem with Norton is that stability chances from version to version. One version can be just fine and smooth, and the next one effects computer performance. If your PC is not a high end to upper mid end configuration, then Norton is a resource hog without end. But the worst part of Norton is that it is damn hard to get rid off.. and install things like Norton Online Backup without your approval... that pisses me off.
 
PeteEU said:
Have you done it recently? They have added malware into AVG now :( well... what I consider malware. Their new PC tune up crap. It moved AVG from recommended to "stay the hell away from it" in my book. It is now in the same box as iObit software (Advanced system care and iObit Anti Malware)... really sad.
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Yeah, saw that in the last upgrade. Not thrilled with it and have been considering switching, but once I make some adjustments, AVG tends to run as it did before. It's just annoying that I have to make the adjustments.

Yes READ WHAT IS ON THE SCREEN!!!!

The amount of people who just press next without reading is mind boggling. Many programs, even major ones (like flash or Chrome), ask if you want to install X program as an extra. DO NOT DO this! Most are toolbars and toolbars are not needed and frankly malware. Removing toolbars can often speed up your browser and PC...[/quote]

I agree 100% and I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. A friend recently downloaded Flash, didn't read what they were installing, and got toolbars and a whole host of other crap on their computer. Caused so many problems, the only way to fix it effectively was to do a System Restore.

READ THE SCREEN.

In danish we have a saying... most faults on a PC is an error 40..... which means that the error is sitting 40 centimeters from the computer screen.
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Yeah, this too is 100% correct.

Windows 8 FTW! It has the ability to do much of that.. and built in.

Start page > Charms menu (move mouse to the right of the screen) > Settings > Change PC settings > General and scroll down. 2 Settings... "Refresh your PC without affecting your files" and "Remove everything and reinstall windows". Brilliant addition to Windows imo.
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I'm still working off of Windows XP on most of the systems of which I work. XP was/is probably the most stable of all the MS versions and I have been unwilling to upgrade. It ain't broke, so I have no reason to fix it.
 
PeteEU said:
Problem with Norton is that stability chances from version to version. One version can be just fine and smooth, and the next one effects computer performance. If your PC is not a high end to upper mid end configuration, then Norton is a resource hog without end. But the worst part of Norton is that it is damn hard to get rid off.. and install things like Norton Online Backup without your approval... that pisses me off.
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If you REALLY want to get rid of Norton, the best and most effective way is to do a complete reinstall.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
If you REALLY want to get rid of Norton, the best and most effective way is to do a complete reinstall.
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Actually there is a Norton uninstall tool which is just as effective. My point is, it should not be needed :)
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I'm still working off of Windows XP on most of the systems of which I work. XP was/is probably the most stable of all the MS versions and I have been unwilling to upgrade. It ain't broke, so I have no reason to fix it.
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Windows Vista, 7 and especially 8 are far far far more stable than XP. Plus XP support ends next year, so start thinking of an upgrade :)
 
PeteEU said:
Actually there is a Norton uninstall tool which is just as effective. My point is, it should not be needed :)
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Didn't know that... but since I haven't installed Norton on a computer in probably 5 years, I haven't needed it.
 
PeteEU said:
Windows Vista, 7 and especially 8 are far far far more stable than XP. Plus XP support ends next year, so start thinking of an upgrade :)
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I would NEVER go with Vista. Used a system with it for a while and it was so unstable that when we purchased 10 new computers for my office 5 years ago, I INSISTED on XP. Two of the computers in my office has Windows 7 on it, and I've built 3 with Windows 7. Admittedly, I liked it, found it faster than XP and just as stable. I liked the fact that some of the features, especially the start menu reminded me of Linux. I haven't had much of a reason to upgrade, and since I almost NEVER use tech support, I doubt I will... though the jury is still out.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I would NEVER go with Vista. Used a system with it for a while and it was so unstable that when we purchased 10 new computers for my office 5 years ago, I INSISTED on XP. Two of the computers in my office has Windows 7 on it, and I've built 3 with Windows 7. Admittedly, I liked it, found it faster than XP and just as stable. I liked the fact that some of the features, especially the start menu reminded me of Linux. I haven't had much of a reason to upgrade, and since I almost NEVER use tech support, I doubt I will... though the jury is still out.
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It is not just tech support... it is updates and critical updates that will stop.
 
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