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Zimbabwe's Mugabe says government will take over all diamond operations

dimensionallava said:
the fact is mugabe was celebrated when he came into power, like all of western europes former colonies, when they gained independence there was civil wars, strife, famine, disease etc etc, colonial powers went to great lengths to make sure that would happen if the local populations ever revolted, the rwandan genocide was committed by black leaders, but it was entirely the fault of belgian colonists, Haiti's capital port au prince was at one point wealthier than paris, when they gained independence they collapsed as well, it hs almost nothing to do with poor leadership of the new independent government.

even just compared to their neighbors zimbabwe handled the transition to independence quite well. the rhodesian bush war saw only around 10,000 deaths compared to over 200,000 deaths in americas revolution against the very same british government
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As I said, Mugabe was great (see: CAMPFIRE) until about 1995. Then things got bad.
 
ecofarm said:
As I said, Mugabe was great (see: CAMPFIRE) until about 1995. Then things got bad.
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is this the grouup your freind is apart of?

Campfire Association Zimbabwe

Campfire appears to be very small safari hunting organization, that donates its money back to the community...... and they killed cecil the lion lol
 
Miners grabbed most of it already expecting nationalisation from a corrupt government.
 
dimensionallava said:
is this the grouup your freind is apart of?

Campfire Association Zimbabwe

Campfire appears to be very small safari hunting organization, that donates its money back to the community...... and they killed cecil the lion lol
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In the late 1980s and 1990s, CAMPFIRE was a community wildlife management program. It put the ownership of wildlife into local's hands. A community would decide on which wildlife could be hunted, based on the sustainability of what was now their resource. The community then negotiated directly with perspective hunters on what could be taken and the price for each animal. As the community came to view wildlife as their resource, to be managed sustainably, the population of wildlife grew and became stable. Poaching was eliminated. The program was a huge victory for community ownership of wildlife, wildlife conservation and community development. Middle-men were cut out, money went directly to community hands. The program was a wondrous success and has been copied in other African nations.

What has happened to it since the 90s is anyone's guess. The whole country has gone to crap.
 
ecofarm said:
It put the ownership of wildlife into local's hands.......Middle-men were cut out, money went directly to community hands.
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aha so they killed the rightful owners of these animals, and redistributed them amongst their cronies.....
 
dimensionallava said:
aha so they killed the rightful owners of these animals, and redistributed them amongst their cronies.....
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CAMPFIRE was a community wildlife ownership program, not a white farm wildlife ownership program. Whites had no say in what animals could be taken nor the price of each. That was decided by local communities and local communities collected the fees directly. The community also voted on community projects to be funded and took funding directly from profits before paying each member of the community equal shares. None of the money went to whites.

I would not be surprised if the program is now a pile of crap, like the rest of the country.
 
ecofarm said:
CAMPFIRE was a community wildlife ownership program, not a white farm wildlife ownership program. Whites had no say in what animals could be taken nor the price of each. That was decided by local communities and local communities collected the fees directly. The community also voted on community projects to be funded and took funding directly from profits before paying each member of the community equal shares. None of the money went to whites.

I would not be surprised if the program is now a pile of crap, like the rest of the country.
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no im messing with you, im saying the strong language and factless political spin your using to describe the farmland collectivization by the ZANU, could just as easily be used against this campfire organization you love so much, i could for example say Campfire stole all the animals and the land, from their rightful white christian owners, after they "started killing them" and they were forced off their land, then the evil campfire group redistributed this land and these animals amongst their bureaucratic crony buddies...... and ever since that happened the money generated from these animals (ivory trade/rhino horns/trophy heads) plummeted and now their poorer than "they" were before..... despite the fact that the black people never owned any of this wealth prior, and never benefitted from the animals export to begin with

Zanu was allied with the soviets and likely alot of what you learned about it was propaganda and disinformation
 
Let's just cut through the BS. You apologize for Mugabe because he's virulently anti-US.
 
ecofarm said:
Let's just cut through the BS. You apologize for Mugabe because he's virulently anti-US.
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because he's better than white colonists that preceded him by far..... and killed less people than george bush did in iraq..... roberet mugabe and the zimbabwean governent are commonly the subject of right wing propaganda (being both black and communist;) )....for example dylan roof wore a jacket with the rhodesian flag on it.....

and just like iraq most of whats being said is a lie.....like wmds
 
Like I said.
 
ecofarm said:
Like I said.
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you wouldn't talk about the president of china like this though, even though you can accuse him of all, if not more human rights violations than mugabe
 
dimensionallava said:
you wouldn't talk about the president of china like this though, even though you can accuse him of all, if not more human rights violations than mugabe
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Sure I would. The president of China is a mouthpiece for oligarchy. China has no human, civil, labor or environmental rights. When the day comes that the horribly oppressed people of China rise up and demand these rights, the country will fragment into several nations, never again existing as a unified state.

The president of China is a scumbag and cares nothing for his people. The country is a pile of dog crap.


There, happy?
 
dimensionallava said:
yes because we went from a cannibalistic genocidal warlord/dictator too..... eh not as bad as the president of china
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You mean the Chinaman doesn't eat hus foes? In all honesty, he probably isn't even worse than Assad.
 
dimensionallava said:
no it wasn't
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It was, Rhodesia actually had a functioning economy, one of the best in Africa. The Rhodesian pound was actually worth something and had a quite a bit of buying power. It was also more democratic than Zimbabwe ever was. People weren't dying of starvation in the streets, people had access to healthcare, , education, it was better.
 
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Carjosse said:
It was, Rhodesia actually had a functioning economy, one of the best in Africa. The Rhodesian pound was actually worth something and had a quite a bit of buying power. It was also more democratic than Zimbabwe ever was. People weren't dying of starvation in the streets, people had access to healthcare, , education, it was better.
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no it wasn't
 
dimensionallava said:
because he's better than white colonists that preceded him by far..... and killed less people than george bush did in iraq..... roberet mugabe and the zimbabwean governent are commonly the subject of right wing propaganda (being both black and communist;) )....for example dylan roof wore a jacket with the rhodesian flag on it.....

and just like iraq most of whats being said is a lie.....like wmds
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In what alternate universe is Robert Friggin' Mugabe a COMMUNIST???!!!
 
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There is lot of confusion presented here. On one hand, we have Mugabe apologist simply because he is anti-US. This is a vile form of condescending racism. African nations like Zimbabwe have inner antagonism just like white nations. To be reluctant to criticize Zimbabwe is a patronizing attitude from the west. The African people are not a group of perfect Hobbit, dancing around in a joyous land of Shire. Their communities have reactions, struggles, oppression, and exploitation just like their white counterpart.

On the other hand, it is politically pointless to debate whether or not colonial rule is "better" than Mugabe or not. Mugabe himself is a product of colonialism. His regime is largely a reaction against western colonialism and exploitation, opposing both the western states and the struggle of its own people.

The right stance we should take is solidarity with the working-class and progressive force within Zimbabwe, not trying to vaguely defend Mugabe or Western colonialism.
 
dimensionallava said:
your making the claim that africans are better off as slaves... you prove it cliven bundy
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Despite international sanctions over the UDI years, ..., Zimbabwe's economy flourished, and even at the of the war when it was starting to suffer from the combined effect of the embargoes and the fighting, it was still the envy of sub-Saharan Africa.
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Big Men, Little People: The Leaders who Defined Africa by Alec Russell

In all Africa, Southern Rhodesia claims to have the highest percentage of African children of school age actually in school. This includes the independent all-African government of Ghana in West Africa and the industrially advanced but segregated Union of South Africa on the Southern extremity. In 1959, 480,000 Southern Rhodesian African children, about 85% of all those of school age, attended school. 1/8 of the territory's total revenue, according to its minster of native education, is currently being spent on African education, "a very large slice of the cake."
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Parker, Franklin. “Life and Education in Southern Rhodesia”. The Phi Delta Kappan 41.4 (1960): 174–179. Web

I would suggest you read The State of Africa by Martin Meredith and Bitter Harvest by Ian Smith.
 
Left Vendetta said:
There is lot of confusion presented here. On one hand, we have Mugabe apologist simply because he is anti-US. This is a vile form of condescending racism. African nations like Zimbabwe have inner antagonism just like white nations. To be reluctant to criticize Zimbabwe is a patronizing attitude from the west. The African people are not a group of perfect Hobbit, dancing around in a joyous land of Shire. Their communities have reactions, struggles, oppression, and exploitation just like their white counterpart.

On the other hand, it is politically pointless to debate whether or not colonial rule is "better" than Mugabe or not. Mugabe himself is a product of colonialism. His regime is largely a reaction against western colonialism and exploitation, opposing both the western states and the struggle of its own people.

The right stance we should take is solidarity with the working-class and progressive force within Zimbabwe, not trying to vaguely defend Mugabe or Western colonialism.
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What I want to see is responsible government in Zimbabwe which it has not had since 1980.
 
Carjosse said:
What I want to see is responsible government in Zimbabwe which it has not had since 1980.
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It is very difficult for African states to achieve that these days. Most states are either corrupted puppet states of western interests to extract raw resources, or governed by corrupted anti-Western regimes that are economically aligned to China.
 
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