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Africa I really dont care about Darfur; Originally Posted by GySgt Not true. Africa is transitioning. lol, a nice word for "stagnation"...

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Old 08-10-07, 09:20 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: I really dont care about Darfur

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Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
Not true. Africa is transitioning.
lol, a nice word for "stagnation"
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Old 08-10-07, 09:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: I really dont care about Darfur

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lol, a nice word for "stagnation"
It's not stagnating at all. Far from it. South Africa and Ethiopia are major influences for hope. Sudan is struggling to maintain a government of Shari'a against rebels who are trying to create a free unified democracy while the world sits back and watches on television. Somalia's government (a bunch of tribes that were thrown together back in the day) is combatting Islamic fundamentalism. Nigeria won their freedom from military rule and is now going through the pains of legitimizing the birth of their democracy. Chad is a governemnt that refuses to entertain the notion of Islamic fundamentalism and is being influenced by America and France in the ways of Westernization.

Africa is transitioning. It won't be over night, but Africa will not be the same old Africa that everyone ignored in the near future.
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Old 08-10-07, 09:47 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: I really dont care about Darfur

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Aid money goes to corrupted leaders who buy mercedes and guns.
Hey, there's nothing wrong with buying Mercedes cars
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Old 09-03-07, 04:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
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mad Re: I really dont care about Darfur

The answer to the African question unfortunately is the US military. to ignore the rape of 5 year old, the mass torture and murder of millions of people makes us no different then dogs. The answer is recolonization and one day this WILL occur, bet on it. Until then many selfish people will say it is not our problem, an easy thing to say sitting on your *** in a comfy chair in a coutry you did NOTHING to create. I would gladly put any one of the Americans who says **** Darfur in Africa and have African refugees take their place.
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Old 11-04-07, 01:38 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: I really dont care about Darfur

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The answer to the African question unfortunately is the US military. ---snip--- The answer is recolonization and one day this WILL occur, bet on it.
With the number of visits by Chinese leaders to Africa and trade agreements being signed with China I'm willing to take your bet.

Won't be long before India's growing economy demands similar trade trips from Indian leaders either.
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Old 11-18-07, 09:20 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: I really dont care about Darfur

Each and every time that we ignore genocide, we become a bit more inured to its occurrence. Antipathy in this regard is not acceptable.
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Old 11-18-07, 11:48 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Thread Starter Re: I really dont care about Darfur

Please. We're not ignoring genocide, we're ignoring genocide outside fo the West. Do you seriously think there could ever be genocide in the West again?
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Old 11-18-07, 12:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: I really dont care about Darfur

New coup for you,

Although one could rightly assert that myriad internal conflicts in remote parts of the world are of peripheral interest to the United States, among other nations, genocide is a wholly different matter.

'End of history' proclamations of a new, permanent, democratic order or assertions that things are now fundamentally different than they were in the past, have usually translated in a discounting, if not dismissal, of past risks. Such assumptions have proved inaccurate time and again in the historic experience.

The problem is that human nature has remained essentially the same as it was when humans evolved into their present state. Human nature has demonstrated a tendency to go to excess in markets, politics, and war.

The difference between the West and some other regions at this point in time, is that the West presently has strong institutions that can mitigate the threat of the worst of human nature. Nevertheless, if the West and others begin to tolerate genocide, the moral bar against genocide would erode. As that happens, such complacency would weaken the vibrancy of the institutions that protect against genocide and suffocate the will to resist those who might well have such ambitions.

Given the gravity of genocide, genocide is one risk I do not believe the West or others should take, even if its probability of occurrence seems relatively remote at present. Good people everywhere have a duty to remember the past if they are to guard against a repetition of history's most horrific experiences and sometimes sacrifice is necessary to fulfill that basic responsibility.

In my opinion, Elie Wiesel had it right in his Nobel lecture in which he declared:

There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest. The Talmud tells us that by saving a single human being, man can save the world. We may be powerless to open all the jails and free all the prisoners, but by declaring our solidarity with one prisoner, we indict all jailers. None of us is in a position to eliminate war, but it is our obligation to denounce it and expose it in all its hideousness. War leaves no victors, only victims. I began with the story of the Besht. And, like the Besht, mankind needs to remember more than ever. Mankind needs peace more than ever, for our entire planet, threatened by nuclear war, is in danger of total destruction. A destruction only man can provoke, only man can prevent. Mankind must remember that peace is not God's gift to his creatures, it is our gift to each other.

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Old 11-18-07, 02:58 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Thread Starter Re: I really dont care about Darfur

There's a label for people that espouse that kind of rhetoric, it's Neocon...or Imperialist. The belief that we have an obligation, or even an abillity to enforce our ideology or morality upon a population (even if the morality is as broad and universal as anti-genocide) is not only wrong, it's utterly unworkable. If you want to prevent genocide in Africa you can't let them operate as independent states. They lack the cultural drive to develop the kind of central order required to create the level of civilziation we enjoy in the West. You have to do it for them. I'm unwilling.
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Old 11-18-07, 03:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: I really dont care about Darfur

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Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
There's a label for people that espouse that kind of rhetoric, it's Neocon...or Imperialist. The belief that we have an obligation, or even an abillity to enforce our ideology or morality upon a population (even if the morality is as broad and universal as anti-genocide) is not only wrong, it's utterly unworkable.
It should be noted that the only foreign policy school(s) that decisively reject any kind of intervention in cases of genocide are the isolationist/non-interventionist schools. Even as Europe struggled against growing Nazi aggression and increasing reports of Nazi atrocities, the isolationists fought tenaciously to preclude U.S. assistance to Europe.

Make no mistake, even as the isolationists were intellectually unable to recognize the grave threat a Hitler-dominated world would have presented, those who understood the role of the balance of power and especially those who were subjected to Nazi barbarism or under attack by Nazi Germany knew all too well its horrific implications.

In the end, even as one might be able to make the plausible argument that intervention (which need not be military) to stop genocide might prove "unworkable," it would be interesting to know under what moral or ethical standard such an effort, be it protest, some form of non-military coercion, or even military intervention, would be "wrong."
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