Thread: Libya - discussion

Whoever come as president of USA, USA's politics never change.Their politic system is always the same. War with Africa & Middle-east. Even by ignoring US Constitution.

Originally Posted by Coin

Now seems like it will come to an end.

much moneys will be needed to rebuild Libya.
USA and EU will have at least the morale to rebuild it since they bombed Libya daily like it was a game by throwing pop corns to a box. Anyway, more moneys will be needed to construct democracy in there. Even tho at the end it will fail like Iraq's case.
Point is that USA+EU are spending so much money for military campaigns. More moneys will go out from americans homes, british ones, french and mabye more.

And then we are suprised "why we have crisis"

Also, seems weird the way Gaddaff become a threat for world while he was the lover friend of USA and EU for hmmm ... almsot 40 years ?
Weird is also the way that rebels come out, how the demonstrates came out. We know that many countries from middle east and africa blamed USA for financing the rebels and creating the protests artificialy. Wikileaks also claimed to found some documents of such matter.


How does Libya's war was into your eyes during all these months?
How seems the end to you?
How you predict the future for Libya?

Libya doesn't need US money to rebuild.. They have oil revenue and Khadafi's money that they can use.. They have already contacted international companies to bid on the jobs and help them.

Khadafi was always a bad actor.. Uneducated with a chip on his shoulder, defiant, arrogant and threatening towards other Arab leaders over imagined slights.

He threw out the Libyan Constitution in 1969 and proceeded to nationalize or drive out oil companies under the bad advice of anti Western Abdullah Tariki. Libyan oil production dropped by hald and never recovered. He clossed Wheelus and Tobruk AFB... He never united the tribes and feared them.

Khadafi didn't have a single friend among the Arab leaders because at one time or another he had threatened to assassinate them.

He was delusional and referred to himself as King of Africa.

Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible

Well, I would like to bring up the fact that some of the claims leveled against Gaddafi during this war may very well be false.

Rape- Amnesty questions claim that Gaddafi ordered rape as weapon of war - Africa, World - The Independent



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/wo...pagewanted=all



African mercenaries- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/wo...pagewanted=all



Also, people have ignored this that the rebels have done like attack black Africans (Blacks In Libya | Libyan rebels accused of targeting blacks - Los Angeles Times)




Yet, I find it interesting how the US-NATO coalition that led the way to help the rebels is now competing for Libyan oil, as there have been many reports in the MSM of US, British, French, and Italian oil firms moving quickly to restart their operations.

Personally, I hope that the Libyan people will be able to live under a true democratic nation, without racism and without its government being beholden foreign interests.

Nobody is competing for Libyan oil.. Libya announced months ago that they would honor all existing concession agreements among the 7 oil companies that operate there. Most are back at work. Repairs have been made and production is almost back where it was before the Arab Spring.

Originally Posted by Coin

in 1951 Libya was the poorest country in the world.
Before the NATO invansion of 2011, Libya had the highest standart of living in Africa & ahead of Russia, Brazil and Saudi Arabia.
In Libya homes were consider as human right. Govern would help you for a home.
Newly married couple receive $ 50'000 to buy their own home.
Elecrticity is FREE to all people.
Gaddaff vowed to house all Libya people before his parents.
And he kept his promise and his own father died before he was able to be housed.
Before Gaddaff less then 1/5 of Libyans were literate.
Now education is FREE and of high quality and literacy rate is 83%.
Healthcare is FREE and of high quality.
And if Libyans can't find the education or healthcare they need, then the govern would pay for them.
All loans were interest 0% by law.
If a Libyan would buy a car, the govern would pay 50% of price
The price of gasoline is $0.14
If a Libyan wanted to be a farmer the govern would give him FREE use of land, a home equipment, livestock and seeds.

On 1st July 2011 at Green Square in Tripoli were assembled 1.7 million (95% of population) of Libyan people to protest against NATO bombing Libya Where NATO saw that Libyan people didn't wanted him?



Gaddaff was working to change payment of Libyan's oil from dollar to the gold African dinar.
This move promoted Sarkozy to call Libya 'a threat to the financial secutiry of Mankind'
One of the first acts of Libyan rebels was to create a new central Bank. A new Bank owned by Rothschild, just like all banks are in west and USA.
The Rothschild are estimated to own over half the world's wealth.
Rothschild owned banks create money out of thin air and sell it to the people at the interest.
This means we never have enough money to pay back what is "owed"
So we and our unborn childrens are made debt slaves to Rothschild banking interests.
Unlike our leaders Obama, Sarkozy, Cameroon etc etc - Gaddaff refused to sell his people out.
Libya was debt FREE.
rLibya had much that we do not have in USA, UK & EU
They had a leader who worked in their best interest and not the Rothschild best interest.
Without the tirany of Rothschild control over the inssuance of money, we could all live as wealthy people.
We have been robbed of trillion of dollars/euros by Rothchilds bankers and their rent boy politicians
Just like Libya will be robbed and slaved now.
60'000 Libyan civilians were killed by NATO bombing and it's "rebels"


__________________________________________________ ___________
This is why Gaddaff was killed for.
And this is what Libyan people are going to loose from now on. GOD they were living so well.

No they weren't living so well.. The business about returning to the Gold dinar was nonsense. Every Arab country has a dinar or soveriegn.. You ca'tn haul gold around to do business for international commerce... It takes too much time and the inter

est would be accumulating during the weeks it would take to move gold bullion... The Rothchilds had NOTHING to do with Libya.

Farming in Libya is negligable.. They import 95% of their food.

Khadafi was dangerous because he was mad as a hatter and completely unreliable.... He always was since 1969..

Originally Posted by sharon

No they weren't living so well.. The business about returning to the Gold dinar was nonsense. Every Arab country has a dinar or soveriegn.. You ca'tn haul gold around to do business for international commerce... It takes too much time and the inter

est would be accumulating during the weeks it would take to move gold bullion... The Rothchilds had NOTHING to do with Libya.

Farming in Libya is negligable.. They import 95% of their food.

Khadafi was dangerous because he was mad as a hatter and completely unreliable.... He always was since 1969..

I'm pretty sure that was propaganda posted by some member of the Qadhadhfa tribe . . .

But even if it were half true, it's amazing what you can buy with an entire country's oil export . . .

Originally Posted by MOrion

I'm pretty sure that was propaganda posted by some member of the Qadhadhfa tribe . . .

But even if it were half true, it's amazing what you can buy with an entire country's oil export . . .

Libya made huge strides between 1951 and 1969.. in education, healthcare and infrastructure. King Idris was good about reinvesting the growing oil revenues. .. and production quickly ramped up to 4 million bpd.

Then came Khadafi.. he threw out the Libyan Constitution, nationalized the oil business, closed Wheelus and Tobruk ... oil production fell to 1.6 million and never really recovered.

Khadafi was crazy.. and suddenly all over the internet people are trying to reinvent him into some benevolent ruler.

Sharon,

Let me just say I am so glad you've posted here to enlighten folks w/historical facts about your native land. It amazes me how so many of my people who have never lived or visited outside the United States consider themselve "well-informed" about the inner workings of another country when all they truly know about said country is what they read in the U.S. newspapers or hear about on talk radio and most of that is fearmongerring. The Internet is a vast repository of international news sources, i.e., World News, Reuters, TheGuardian.uk and so many others, pick one and get better informed on foreign affairs, folks.

Of course, not all national news on foreign affairs is bad news, misleading or uninformative. Take this article from NBC World News, for example. The headline reads, "After decades in exile, Libyan president Magarief ready to die for democracy".

He was wanted by Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi, he survived seven assassination attempts and he lived in exile in Atlanta for two decades, but now that he is the new president of Libya, Mohamed Magarief says he is ready to sacrifice his life for his homeland.

"I'm determined. I'm determined to even sacrifice my life for that ... to see Libya as free, democratic," Magarief told NBC's Ann Curry in an exclusive interview.

...

"I started in 1980, when I decide to defect from the regime and call for, openly, for its downfall and toppling and participated with my colleagues for so many years in a very comprehensive program of action to achieve this, to topple Gadhafi and to build a new democratic Libya," he said.

...

Libya's national assembly picked Magarief as its president in August. He is the leader of the National Front party, an offshoot of the old opposition movement he helped start. Magarief, who is from Benghazi, won 113 votes against independent Ali Zidan, who got 85 votes.

The path Magarief envisions for Libya includes free and open elections and a new constitution. He said he has no desire to stay in power beyond the transitional period, and hopes his successor will be a democratically elected leader. Magarief disagrees with the idea that fundamentalists will be allowed to fill the power vacuum in Libya following the toppling of Gadhafi, adding that Libyans will stand against extremist views.

"These fundamentalists, these extremists, these trends that are, first of all, it has nothing to do with true Islam, real Islam," he said. "The interpretation that these people introduced is not accepted by majority of Muslims."

Magarief discounted claims that the deadly attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi earlier this month was in response to an anti-Islam movie produced in California and available on YouTube. He noted that the assault happened on Sept. 11 and that the video had been available for months before that.

"Reaction should have been, if it was genuine, .... six months earlier. So it was postponed until the 11th of September," he said. "They chose this date, 11th of September to carry a certain message."

"We consider the United States as a friend, not only a friend, a strong friend, who stood with us in our moment of need," he added.

Magarief admitted it would not be easy for Libya to shake off the legacy that decades of Gadhafi's dictatorship has left behind, but he strongly believes that every country deserves to enjoy democracy.

"This should not continue. If it continues, we'll all pay a heavy price. The solution is freedom, is democracy," he said. "Giving people the chance to -- and I'm sure we'll mature. We'll mature quickly, very quickly. And we'll prove that we are responsible human beings, who deserve freedom and democracy."

Sometimes, you just have to look for news that's non-bias, doesn't have an agenda and will simply tell the truth. I think this article does that. Libya may need alittle help from the international community (i.e, US/EU) initially to rebuild and re-establish broader international relations, but I think they can hold their own fairly well.

Sidenote: Yes, the sell of oil is part of the mix in how Lybia gets its economy back on track, but at this point who would you rather have as an energy trading partner - Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia or any other OPEC nation - or Libya? Keep in mind that the less oil Iran is able to sell in the global marketplace due to crippling economic sactions, the lower their chances of building a nuclear device. The question here is has oil sanctions had the desired affects? Watch these videos from WorldNews.com and you be the judge.