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Secrets of Noah's Arc

jet57

jet57

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On a recently aired PBS Nova episode, Secrets of Noah’s Arc, a very unusual and quite probably true story of how myth becomes reality was explored. In 1930 an archaeological expedition in southern Iraq discovered river beds that had ten feet of silt suggesting great amounts of water had been present a very very long time ago in southern Mesopotamia

Dr. Irwin Finkle, expert in ancient writings has created translations of ancient Babylonian tablets in a script called Kenayaform that date to 4,000 years ago. The tablets tell the story of a great flood and the building of a great boat. The directions for building the boat are included: 222 feet in diameter and round . . . The builder was man by the name of Atra Hassis.

As the documentary proceeds, it tells of more and more such tablets over a long period of time, the conclusion being that many of these tablets were used in schools and over time, like any stories changed so much and lasted so long that they became myth. The upshot of “the boat” is that regional floods had taken place in several areas over time that were so damaging to land and life, that at one point, it was decided to build a life boat to float the most important people and their families during another flood.

In 587 B.C., the Babylonians invaded Jerusalem and sacked the city. The intent was to enforce laws that were not being adhered to and the result was that the Judeans were evacuated to the Babylonian capital of Ur: (the Exodus?) The Judeans assimilated very well, and in time wrote the Bible.
So, is it indeed not only possible, but also probable that two of the Bible stories were inspired by other than Godly intervention?
 
jet57 said:
On a recently aired PBS Nova episode, Secrets of Noah’s Arc, a very unusual and quite probably true story of how myth becomes reality was explored. In 1930 an archaeological expedition in southern Iraq discovered river beds that had ten feet of silt suggesting great amounts of water had been present a very very long time ago in southern Mesopotamia

Dr. Irwin Finkle, expert in ancient writings has created translations of ancient Babylonian tablets in a script called Kenayaform that date to 4,000 years ago. The tablets tell the story of a great flood and the building of a great boat. The directions for building the boat are included: 222 feet in diameter and round . . . The builder was man by the name of Atra Hassis.

As the documentary proceeds, it tells of more and more such tablets over a long period of time, the conclusion being that many of these tablets were used in schools and over time, like any stories changed so much and lasted so long that they became myth. The upshot of “the boat” is that regional floods had taken place in several areas over time that were so damaging to land and life, that at one point, it was decided to build a life boat to float the most important people and their families during another flood.

In 587 B.C., the Babylonians invaded Jerusalem and sacked the city. The intent was to enforce laws that were not being adhered to and the result was that the Judeans were evacuated to the Babylonian capital of Ur: (the Exodus?) The Judeans assimilated very well, and in time wrote the Bible.
So, is it indeed not only possible, but also probable that two of the Bible stories were inspired by other than Godly intervention?
Click to expand...

This has been debunked time and time again.
if you did an ounce of research into it.

there are way to many key differences for them to be from each other.
simply another hack job by nova.

they should probably consult biblical archeologists before making these types of things to ensure they get it right,
but then that would destroy the purpose of it.
 
ludin said:
This has been debunked time and time again.
if you did an ounce of research into it.

there are way to many key differences for them to be from each other.
simply another hack job by nova.

they should probably consult biblical archeologists before making these types of things to ensure they get it right,
but then that would destroy the purpose of it.
Click to expand...

Show where that documentary and the people in it and the information have been debunked. PBS does not run debunked material as fact.
 
jet57 said:
So, is it indeed not only possible, but also probable that two of the Bible stories were inspired by other than Godly intervention?
Click to expand...
Well... Unearthing the origin of myths and oral traditions is extremely difficult, if not essentially impossible in many situations.

E.g. flood myths are pretty common, and the dream of escaping a flood with a boat is not that big of a stretch.

The project seems amusing, but I doubt there is much of a direct connection between the two.
 
jet57 said:
On a recently aired PBS Nova episode, Secrets of Noah’s Arc, a very unusual and quite probably true story of how myth becomes reality was explored. In 1930 an archaeological expedition in southern Iraq discovered river beds that had ten feet of silt suggesting great amounts of water had been present a very very long time ago in southern Mesopotamia

Dr. Irwin Finkle, expert in ancient writings has created translations of ancient Babylonian tablets in a script called Kenayaform that date to 4,000 years ago. The tablets tell the story of a great flood and the building of a great boat. The directions for building the boat are included: 222 feet in diameter and round . . . The builder was man by the name of Atra Hassis.

As the documentary proceeds, it tells of more and more such tablets over a long period of time, the conclusion being that many of these tablets were used in schools and over time, like any stories changed so much and lasted so long that they became myth. The upshot of “the boat” is that regional floods had taken place in several areas over time that were so damaging to land and life, that at one point, it was decided to build a life boat to float the most important people and their families during another flood.

In 587 B.C., the Babylonians invaded Jerusalem and sacked the city. The intent was to enforce laws that were not being adhered to and the result was that the Judeans were evacuated to the Babylonian capital of Ur: (the Exodus?) The Judeans assimilated very well, and in time wrote the Bible.
So, is it indeed not only possible, but also probable that two of the Bible stories were inspired by other than Godly intervention?
Click to expand...


wrong!
 
ludin said:
This has been debunked time and time again.
Click to expand...
By whom?

What, exactly, do you think has to be "debunked?"


there are way to many key differences for them to be from each other.
simply another hack job by nova.
Click to expand...
Yes, Nova is known for its hack work :roll:

The more striking element is not the differences (which are to be expected), but the similarities.


they should probably consult biblical archeologists before making these types of things to ensure they get it right,
but then that would destroy the purpose of it.
Click to expand...
...and if you watched any part of it, you'd probably know they did in fact talk to theologians, Cuneiform experts, historians, and yes, archaeologists.
 
jet57 said:
On a recently aired PBS Nova episode, Secrets of Noah’s Arc, a very unusual and quite probably true story of how myth becomes reality was explored. In 1930 an archaeological expedition in southern Iraq discovered river beds that had ten feet of silt suggesting great amounts of water had been present a very very long time ago in southern Mesopotamia

Dr. Irwin Finkle, expert in ancient writings has created translations of ancient Babylonian tablets in a script called Kenayaform that date to 4,000 years ago. The tablets tell the story of a great flood and the building of a great boat. The directions for building the boat are included: 222 feet in diameter and round . . . The builder was man by the name of Atra Hassis.

As the documentary proceeds, it tells of more and more such tablets over a long period of time, the conclusion being that many of these tablets were used in schools and over time, like any stories changed so much and lasted so long that they became myth. The upshot of “the boat” is that regional floods had taken place in several areas over time that were so damaging to land and life, that at one point, it was decided to build a life boat to float the most important people and their families during another flood.

In 587 B.C., the Babylonians invaded Jerusalem and sacked the city. The intent was to enforce laws that were not being adhered to and the result was that the Judeans were evacuated to the Babylonian capital of Ur: (the Exodus?) The Judeans assimilated very well, and in time wrote the Bible.
So, is it indeed not only possible, but also probable that two of the Bible stories were inspired by other than Godly intervention?
Click to expand...

Wait....

Are you seriously positing that Noah's Ark -all animals evah on a boat - is a real story?
 
jet57 said:
On a recently aired PBS Nova episode, Secrets of Noah’s Arc, a very unusual and quite probably true story of how myth becomes reality was explored. In 1930 an archaeological expedition in southern Iraq discovered river beds that had ten feet of silt suggesting great amounts of water had been present a very very long time ago in southern Mesopotamia

Dr. Irwin Finkle, expert in ancient writings has created translations of ancient Babylonian tablets in a script called Kenayaform that date to 4,000 years ago. The tablets tell the story of a great flood and the building of a great boat. The directions for building the boat are included: 222 feet in diameter and round . . . The builder was man by the name of Atra Hassis.

As the documentary proceeds, it tells of more and more such tablets over a long period of time, the conclusion being that many of these tablets were used in schools and over time, like any stories changed so much and lasted so long that they became myth. The upshot of “the boat” is that regional floods had taken place in several areas over time that were so damaging to land and life, that at one point, it was decided to build a life boat to float the most important people and their families during another flood.

In 587 B.C., the Babylonians invaded Jerusalem and sacked the city. The intent was to enforce laws that were not being adhered to and the result was that the Judeans were evacuated to the Babylonian capital of Ur: (the Exodus?) The Judeans assimilated very well, and in time wrote the Bible.
So, is it indeed not only possible, but also probable that two of the Bible stories were inspired by other than Godly intervention?
Click to expand...

The flood myth has been told and retold many times over the centuries. The Sumerians had their version, which was taken by the Babylonians and reworked and then that too was adopted by the Hebrews (they changed it from many gods to just one god). The story of Job is another tale taken from Sumerian sources. Im sure it was from earlier sources but Im citing the Sumerians because the oldest recorded writings come from them.
 
jet57 said:
On a recently aired PBS Nova episode, Secrets of Noah’s Arc, a very unusual and quite probably true story of how myth becomes reality was explored. In 1930 an archaeological expedition in southern Iraq discovered river beds that had ten feet of silt suggesting great amounts of water had been present a very very long time ago in southern Mesopotamia

Dr. Irwin Finkle, expert in ancient writings has created translations of ancient Babylonian tablets in a script called Kenayaform that date to 4,000 years ago. The tablets tell the story of a great flood and the building of a great boat. The directions for building the boat are included: 222 feet in diameter and round . . . The builder was man by the name of Atra Hassis.

As the documentary proceeds, it tells of more and more such tablets over a long period of time, the conclusion being that many of these tablets were used in schools and over time, like any stories changed so much and lasted so long that they became myth. The upshot of “the boat” is that regional floods had taken place in several areas over time that were so damaging to land and life, that at one point, it was decided to build a life boat to float the most important people and their families during another flood.

In 587 B.C., the Babylonians invaded Jerusalem and sacked the city. The intent was to enforce laws that were not being adhered to and the result was that the Judeans were evacuated to the Babylonian capital of Ur: (the Exodus?) The Judeans assimilated very well, and in time wrote the Bible.
So, is it indeed not only possible, but also probable that two of the Bible stories were inspired by other than Godly intervention?
Click to expand...

Ark, not arc

action.jpg
 
jet57 said:
Show where that documentary and the people in it and the information have been debunked. PBS does not run debunked material as fact.
Click to expand...

no they make correlation without causation claims for people like you and other anti-religious people.
unfortunately they don't consult actual biblical scholars or archeologists.
 
Visbek said:
By whom?

What, exactly, do you think has to be "debunked?"
Click to expand...

By actual theologians etc ...

Yes, Nova is known for its hack work :roll:
Click to expand...
when it comes to anti-religious stuff yes very much so.

The more striking element is not the differences (which are to be expected), but the similarities.
Click to expand...
similarities are useless many things can be similar but vastly different to the point that the details
make the stories completely different. that they are not the same.

there is a huge differences in the boats described in the bible and in the Babylonian story.
their construction is 100% different.


...and if you watched any part of it, you'd probably know they did in fact talk to theologians, Cuneiform experts, historians, and yes, archaeologists.
Click to expand...

in a poor attempt to make it seem more legit. I am pretty sure that all the theologians side that they were completely separate stories.
 
ludin said:
no they make correlation without causation claims for people like you and other anti-religious people.
unfortunately they don't consult actual biblical scholars or archeologists.
Click to expand...

They put forth a workable and plausible theory based on the contemporary evidence. consulting Biblical scholar on such matters is tat amount to consulting Donald Trump about what will be the outcome of the presidential election.
 
ludin said:
By actual theologians etc ...


when it comes to anti-religious stuff yes very much so.


similarities are useless many things can be similar but vastly different to the point that the details
make the stories completely different. that they are not the same.

there is a huge differences in the boats described in the bible and in the Babylonian story.
their construction is 100% different.




in a poor attempt to make it seem more legit. I am pretty sure that all the theologians side that they were completely separate stories.
Click to expand...

There is certainly nothing anti religious about this story or the evidence. You should that the chief sponsor of the Nova series is David H Koch, not exactly on the vanguard of atheism. And the similarities ARE what makes the story so compelling. It drawn from direct factual evidence at a time previous to the Biblical stories and could very well be the source of them.
 
jet57 said:
There is certainly nothing anti religious about this story or the evidence. You should that the chief sponsor of the Nova series is David H Koch, not exactly on the vanguard of atheism. And the similarities ARE what makes the story so compelling. It drawn from direct factual evidence at a time previous to the Biblical stories and could very well be the source of them.
Click to expand...

correlation without causation is a fallacy not an argument.
the stories are completely different to the point that only if you cherry pick what you
want can you conclude that one was derived from the other.

What similarities are there between the Gilgamesh flood account and the biblical flood account?
 
Well, I think the best thing to do is to start off with what we know for sure:

1. There has never been a global flood as described in the bible, or anything close to it. It's not possible for all land to be under water. That's 100% factual.

2. An ark made as per the instructions of the bible wouldn't be sea worthy and it wouldn't be able to hold the animals or food required for such an event. It's 100% not possible.

3. There are similar flood stories passed down by other cultures with numerous similarities to the biblical account. Some of these stories have down right crazy similarities like how in bothe the epic of gilgamesh and the biblical account:

"And offered a sacrifice... The gods smelled the sweet savor" — Gilgamesh

"offered burnt offerings on the altar. And the Lord smelled the sweet savor..." — Genesis 8:20-21
Click to expand...

In conclusion, I think it's completely reasonable at the very least to say that if the story is divinely inspired, it's only inspired as a metaphor, because it didn't actually happen.
 
ludin said:
correlation without causation is a fallacy not an argument.
the stories are completely different to the point that only if you cherry pick what you
want can you conclude that one was derived from the other.

What similarities are there between the Gilgamesh flood account and the biblical flood account?
Click to expand...

If both of these stories were new stories, published by different authors, one of them would be very easily sued for stealing another authors work. That's how similar the stories are.

If I hand you a story about me catching a whale and whole parts of it are exact word for word copy and paste from Moby Dick would you honestly be arguing that this is no evidence that I stole the story from Moby Dick?
 
If the story implies the Jewish bible version was picked up during the Babylonian exile,
that may not be accurate. I think sections of the old testament existed before 597 BC
and already included the flood story.
Since Abraham cam from UR, it is possible the story was one he learned there.
Of course, since there are several flood legends which all tell basically the same story,
then everyone living in that area would be a decedent of the flood survivors,
so it would be an important story.
 
roughdraft274 said:
If both of these stories were new stories, published by different authors, one of them would be very easily sued for stealing another authors work. That's how similar the stories are.

If I hand you a story about me catching a whale and whole parts of it are exact word for word copy and paste from Moby Dick would you honestly be arguing that this is no evidence that I stole the story from Moby Dick?
Click to expand...

no they wouldn't.
I just posted the link that proves this wrong so the question is
why did you ignore the link?
 
longview said:
If the story implies the Jewish bible version was picked up during the Babylonian exile,
that may not be accurate. I think sections of the old testament existed before 597 BC
and already included the flood story.
Since Abraham cam from UR, it is possible the story was one he learned there.
Of course, since there are several flood legends which all tell basically the same story,
then everyone living in that area would be a decedent of the flood survivors,
so it would be an important story.
Click to expand...

the reason they are close is because more than likely there was a massive flood that covered the majority of the area in
some way or another. that is about the only thing they have in common.
 
ludin said:
no they wouldn't.
I just posted the link that proves this wrong so the question is
why did you ignore the link?
Click to expand...

Your last link only goes on and on about the complete and utter similarity of the stories. If you disagree please copy and paste the pertinent part that you think argues your point please.
 
ludin said:
the reason they are close is because more than likely there was a massive flood that covered the majority of the area in
some way or another. that is about the only thing they have in common.
Click to expand...

From YOUR link:

During the mid-nineteenth century, this complete “Epic of Gilgamesh” (from 650 BC) was unearthed in some ruins at Nineveh’s great library, and the depth and breadth of similarities and differences became evident. Here is a more extensive listing of the similarities and differences:

• God (or several gods in the Gilgamesh account) decided to destroy humankind because of its wickedness and sinfulness (Genesis 6:5–7).

• A righteous man (Genesis 6:9) was directed to build an ark to save a limited and select group of people and all species of animals (Noah received his orders directly from God, Utnapishtim from a dream).

• Both arks were huge, although their shapes differed. Noah’s was rectangular; Utnapishtim’s was square.

• Both arks had a single door and at least one window.

• A great rain covered the land and mountains with water, although some water emerged from beneath the earth in the biblical account (Genesis 7:11).

• Biblical flooding was 40 days and nights (Genesis 7:12), while the Gilgamesh flood was much shorter (six days and nights).

• Birds were released to find land (a raven and three doves in the biblical account, Genesis 8:6–12; a dove, swallow, and raven in the other).

• After the rains ceased, both arks came to rest on a mountain, Noah’s on Ararat (Genesis 8:4); Utnapishtim’s on Nisir. These mountains are about 300 miles apart.

• Sacrifices were offered after the flood (Genesis 8:20).

• God was (or gods were) pleased by the sacrifices (Genesis 8:21), and Noah and Utnapishtim received blessings.

• God (or the many gods) promised not to destroy humankind again (Genesis 8:21–22).
Click to expand...

But you think the only similarity is that there was a flood?
 
I've always been fond of the Black Sea Deluge theory or post glacial flooding as a natural origin for the many flood stories.
 
Sherman123 said:
I've always been fond of the Black Sea Deluge theory or post glacial flooding as a natural origin for the many flood stories.
Click to expand...
I have thought the same thing, and much more likely considering the area where mt. Ararat is.
 
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