• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Who's the loser?

Harry Guerrilla said:
There seems to be a bit of superiority when people compare college graduates to non graduates.
I mean, when folks say, not everyone is made to attend college, trade school is good.

That implies that one chooses trade school because they're less intelligent.
Which is bull ****.
Click to expand...

People who do manual labor tend to be less intelligent than those who go into academia.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.
 
_Sal said:
why would he be the loser in this?
Click to expand...

I said the welder would be the answer to taco's questions.

The guy with the useless liberal arts degree is the one who comes out on bottom.
 
_Sal said:
ah okay...

but doesn't it really come down to who ends up most balanced and happy and helpful to society at the end of it all
Click to expand...

That would probably be the welder.
 
Whoever is happy and satisfied with their life.
 
justabubba said:
the one who winds up doing something he does not enjoy
Click to expand...

that's what I think too...and along the way people may go in different directions...the welder may go back to school or start his own company...university kid might go back and get a business degree...

so many things happen along the way...
 
Paleocon said:
People who do manual labor tend to be less intelligent than those who go into academia.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.
Click to expand...

Well depends on if you believe these numbers.
Some people have estimated the about 15% of the population is fully literate, with the other 85% being at 8th grade level or below.

So whatever intelligence comes with academia, it still leaves me unimpressed.
Assuming that's true.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
There seems to be a bit of superiority when people compare college graduates to non graduates.
I mean, when folks say, not everyone is made to attend college, trade school is good.

That implies that one chooses trade school because they're less intelligent.
Which is bull ****.
Click to expand...

And, when it comes to liberal arts, one of the most important phrases to learn is 'Would you like fries with that burger?' , particularly these days. The number of liberal arts grads far outpaces the available jobs in the field.
 
RAMOSS said:
And, when it comes to liberal arts, one of the most important phrases to learn is 'Would you like fries with that burger?' , particularly these days. The number of liberal arts grads far outpaces the available jobs in the field.
Click to expand...

Well sorta yea, sorta no.
My employer wants to me to go to school.
Didn't say for anything specific but just to go to school and finish.

I don't want to because if the subject is immaterial, why do I need to go.
Employers use degrees, often any degree as a resume filter.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Well sorta yea, sorta no.
My employer wants to me to go to school.
Didn't say for anything specific but just to go to school and finish.

I don't want to because if the subject is immaterial, why do I need to go.
Employers use degrees, often any degree as a resume filter.
Click to expand...

There is that. But.. an engineering degree will provide for better employment opportunities than english.
 
RAMOSS said:
There is that. But.. an engineering degree will provide for better employment opportunities than english.
Click to expand...

Ehhh, I thought that was true, at least in terms of engineering.
However, when the economy turns sour, my company usually lets the engineers go first, even before the hourly folks.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Ehhh, I thought that was true, at least in terms of engineering.
However, when the economy turns sour, my company usually lets the engineers go first, even before the hourly folks.
Click to expand...

Some engineering jobs have more security than others. I wouldn't be an industrial engineer to save my life for example. An electrical or mechanical engineer doing maintenance tasks, thats probably quite secure.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Short term winner? The kid with the immediate trade skill. Long term winner? The one with the college education.
Click to expand...

That depends on the major....You're right if one is majoring in Business, Law, Science, Medicine, Computers or Education(depends on what and where they teach) but if the majors are Art, Gender Studies, Theatre, then you're probably going to be struggling through life. IMHO, public financial aid should only cover majors that will contribute and have potential of earning enough to pay back the loan.
 
cmoneal71 said:
That depends on the major....
Click to expand...
That, and the person.
cmoneal71 said:
You're right if one is majoring in Business, Law, Science, Medicine, Computers or Education(depends on what and where they teach)
Click to expand...
Again, depends on the person. An education in a major that is normally recruited by businesses doesn't guarantee a life long career if the person with the education is not a good worker, honest, ethical and has a personality that others care to be around.
cmoneal71 said:
but if the majors are Art, Gender Studies, Theatre, then you're probably going to be struggling through life.
Click to expand...
Probably a true statement, except that there are many jobs out there that only require a BA or BS and do not designate the subject matter of the major. Plus, this entire conversation we are having has so far excluded the possibility of the person becoming self employed by starting their own company. An art major can open a gallery or small corner art store. A theater major can open a business where they produce TV and radio commercials, or open a business as a theatrical agent. Just to name a few examples.
cmoneal71 said:
IMHO, public financial aid should only cover majors that will contribute and have potential of earning enough to pay back the loan.
Click to expand...
That may seems reasonable to most at first glance, but then after you apply that same thought process to other public programs... well...

The ability to achieve a positive impact from the receipt of a government program is completely up to the recipient. Giving a person unemployment insurance payments when they find themselves unemployed is supposed to be a temporary assistance to be only used sparingly while looking for another job - yet many people will collect those payments until they are no longer available before they act to find additional work. This is also a major reason that the housing crisis erupted, due to government mandated loans being given to people that could not pay them back in an altruistic attempt to help lower income people get into a permanent home. Similar problems exist in every single social program that exists - including government backed student loans.

No one can guarantee a positive outcome in your life, except for you yourself, based on the choices you make and the way you deal with adversity when it invariably happens to you. There a lot of people that should not even try to get a college education - or at least allow themselves to be happy with a less than "expected" outcome when they do.

You do make a very good and under discussed problem regarding the choices that both universities and their students make regarding what passes for a college education. And, although I may not sound like it above, I would be in favor of changing the way student loans are given out and the way they are collected.
 
radcen said:
Who's the loser?

View attachment 67191660
Click to expand...

I have a good friend who's daughter just got her liberal arts degree. While by themselves, liberal arts degrees are borderline useful they are a great foundation for post-grad studies. She's going into law and politics and that liberal arts degree is a great path into those two fields.
 
soot said:
The media salary for a welder in the United States is around $36,000 according to multiple sources (salary.com, payscale.com, bls.gov).

While I'm sure a small handful of novice welders walk out of welding schools and in to $55K/yr jobs it's unlikely at best.

Most will be earning significantly less than the mean with the majority starting probably closer to the mid to upper 20s.
Click to expand...

Yes and no... I have two friends who both went to "welding school", one had zero prior experience with welding, the other was raised in his dad's welding shop (he went to school to get the welder's cert. that pretty much every employer requires). The guy with no experience is shaking a sign for a local mattress store, the guy with experience is making well over $75K after two years.
 
faithful_servant said:
I have a good friend who's daughter just got her liberal arts degree. While by themselves, liberal arts degrees are borderline useful they are a great foundation for post-grad studies. She's going into law and politics and that liberal arts degree is a great path into those two fields.
Click to expand...
Agreed. As a stepping stone they are indeed fine. Unfortunately too many people stop there.
 
radcen said:
Who's the loser?

View attachment 67191660
Click to expand...

The guy in the blue hoodie is a loser for thinking the guy that wants to be welder is a loser. However, it should be pointed out the the liberal arts degree could gain him admission to a graduate school to get a professional degree, while that would not be the case with a certification from a trade school.
 
No matter how much i look at it, i am still bothered by that imbecile in the blue shirt.
 
Ikari said:
There's certainly nothing wrong with trade school and it's a viable option for many people depending on what that person wants to do with their life. There are many people in University who probably shouldn't be. I think that we should really make distinctions between Trade School, Community College, College, and University.
Click to expand...

I am not familiar with government subsidies toward trade/vocation institutions. I do know that you can take a basic welding or carpentry course at many technical colleges across the country, but am not aware of much training outside the union trades. I was an iron worker back in the day, and almost all training was OJT with the proper connections.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom