We should Abolish college[W:25]

Universities prices to attend have skyrocketed and climb ever higher. Yet not all people can afford to go to a university but this is what all High-schools want us to do. Some push it so much that they prevent students from getting part time jobs in Highschool since they say part time jobs make High school students drop out. Which is very unreasonable since Universities still make us compete to get in and we dont ALL GET IN no matter how good your grades are. So what does this leave? A bunch of people without college training struggling for low wage jobs, a bunch of people going into debt just to afford an education which might not even pan out in the end of it. A lot of people who go to college also drop out. For the reason of money problems or stress. Along with this we have falling test scores and this "No child left behind" does not seem to be fixing the fact that generations are getting worse each year. Schools teach students how to cheat on test (Guess B if you are unsure, its usually B) which does not reflect the intelligence of the student but kind of a way to cheat the system based on patterns. A lot of people have argued we need to reform public school, and Obama has said he wants to make college free to all students. Why dont we just skip that and get rid of college and instead turn High-schools into trade schools and have mentors come and teach students hand on learning. A trade school can teach you a skill in 6 months and place you in a job place. High-schools have 12 years and don't seem to really do that good of a job. We have trade classes in highschool and that is real life skills, not simply trivial book work. You can tell a person what a disease is and how it works but it does not mean they ever worked in the lab. If we did this it would be a lot more practical.

We can have Accounting/Business math, Cooking/Culinary, Teaching/young leaders, Medical training, English/Young writers, Drama/Music/Performing arts, Art/digital media/cartooning/storyboard artist, Computers/IT, Math/Engineering/Mechanics, Physics/Nuclear physics/Chemistry, Electrical/computer/technology repair, Sports/Professional athletes/Coaches, Band/Young music/Orchestra. We go to school to learn but a lot of people are not really learning, and a lot of graduates have 0 life skills. Clearly the current system is failing so why not just give students life skills and real world training. When they get out, they can shadow mentors in whatever field till they are old enough and apply, or maybe take internships, secretary/office/business administration.

Re: We should Abolish college

MisterLogical said:

Universities prices to attend have skyrocketed and climb ever higher. Yet not all people can afford to go to a university but this is what all High-schools want us to do. Some push it so much that they prevent students from getting part time jobs in Highschool since they say part time jobs make High school students drop out. Which is very unreasonable since Universities still make us compete to get in and we dont ALL GET IN no matter how good your grades are. So what does this leave? A bunch of people without college training struggling for low wage jobs, a bunch of people going into debt just to afford an education which might not even pan out in the end of it. A lot of people who go to college also drop out. For the reason of money problems or stress. Along with this we have falling test scores and this "No child left behind" does not seem to be fixing the fact that generations are getting worse each year. Schools teach students how to cheat on test (Guess B if you are unsure, its usually B) which does not reflect the intelligence of the student but kind of a way to cheat the system based on patterns. A lot of people have argued we need to reform public school, and Obama has said he wants to make college free to all students. Why dont we just skip that and get rid of college and instead turn High-schools into trade schools and have mentors come and teach students hand on learning. A trade school can teach you a skill in 6 months and place you in a job place. High-schools have 12 years and don't seem to really do that good of a job. We have trade classes in highschool and that is real life skills, not simply trivial book work. You can tell a person what a disease is and how it works but it does not mean they ever worked in the lab. If we did this it would be a lot more practical.

Click to expand...

I would suggest staying in school until at least that time you have elevated your writing skills to the point of competency.

It will help you once you are old enough to seek employment.

Re: We should Abolish college

You can not go back once you graduate. You go till you have a diploma and you leave, that is about it. If I want more education I have to go to college and I can not afford it. Not to mention my school hates it graduates and consider us going anywhere near it as a threat to the school. So we are not allowed on or near premises for any reason. Unless we want them to call the police on us. So your suggestion is really asinine. It is also not relevant to the post. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Re: We should Abolish college

MisterLogical said:

Universities prices to attend have skyrocketed and climb ever higher. Yet not all people can afford to go to a university but this is what all High-schools want us to do. Some push it so much that they prevent students from getting part time jobs in Highschool since they say part time jobs make High school students drop out. Which is very unreasonable since Universities still make us compete to get in and we dont ALL GET IN no matter how good your grades are. So what does this leave? A bunch of people without college training struggling for low wage jobs, a bunch of people going into debt just to afford an education which might not even pan out in the end of it. A lot of people who go to college also drop out. For the reason of money problems or stress. Along with this we have falling test scores and this "No child left behind" does not seem to be fixing the fact that generations are getting worse each year. Schools teach students how to cheat on test (Guess B if you are unsure, its usually B) which does not reflect the intelligence of the student but kind of a way to cheat the system based on patterns. A lot of people have argued we need to reform public school, and Obama has said he wants to make college free to all students. Why dont we just skip that and get rid of college and instead turn High-schools into trade schools and have mentors come and teach students hand on learning. A trade school can teach you a skill in 6 months and place you in a job place. High-schools have 12 years and don't seem to really do that good of a job. We have trade classes in highschool and that is real life skills, not simply trivial book work. You can tell a person what a disease is and how it works but it does not mean they ever worked in the lab. If we did this it would be a lot more practical.

We can have Accounting/Business math, Cooking/Culinary, Teaching/young leaders, Medical training, English/Young writers, Drama/Music/Performing arts, Art/digital media/cartooning/storyboard artist, Computers/IT, Math/Engineering/Mechanics, Physics/Nuclear physics/Chemistry, Electrical/computer/technology repair, Sports/Professional athletes/Coaches, Band/Young music/Orchestra. We go to school to learn but a lot of people are not really learning, and a lot of graduates have 0 life skills. Clearly the current system is failing so why not just give students life skills and real world training. When they get out, they can shadow mentors in whatever field till they are old enough and apply, or maybe take internships, secretary/office/business administration.

Click to expand...

The idea of abolishing college is about the worst policy choice the U.S. could make. It would fundamentally undercut the nation's competitiveness over time, leading to markedly worse economic and social outcomes over time.

For perspective, the employment change from 10/2009 (when the nation's unemployment rate peaked) to 8/2015 by educational attainment is as follows:

Less than High School Diploma: -407,000
High School Diploma, No College: -90,000
Some College or Associate's Degree: +1,831,000
Bachelor's Degree or Higher: +7,051,000

College degrees are costly and discussing means of reducing net costs to students is a fair policy matter. But abolishing perhaps the only mechanism that gives future generations an ability to attain jobs and build careers in an increasingly knowledge-oriented economy would be among the nation's worst policy blunders of all time.

Re: We should Abolish college

So you didn't even try in high school, which could've gotten you into a top college with a free ride, or at least you could've learned basic grammar, so you come on here incessantly whining that everyone else should be punished for your failure.

And now i see this too: http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-co...not-constitutional-w-13-a.html#post1064999358

Let me guess, you're a tea party spokesman

Re: We should Abolish college

There is nothing wrong with going to a trade school for some careers. It is a shame that high schools have dropped many trade type classes (auto shop, wood shop). They have been replaced by classes that are more concerned about social aspects. I don't agree with the OP that one could get medical training in 6 months.

College has its place for some. Trade schools have their place for others.

Re: We should Abolish college

MisterLogical said:

Universities prices to attend have skyrocketed and climb ever higher. Yet not all people can afford to go to a university but this is what all High-schools want us to do. Some push it so much that they prevent students from getting part time jobs in Highschool since they say part time jobs make High school students drop out. Which is very unreasonable since Universities still make us compete to get in and we dont ALL GET IN no matter how good your grades are. So what does this leave? A bunch of people without college training struggling for low wage jobs, a bunch of people going into debt just to afford an education which might not even pan out in the end of it. A lot of people who go to college also drop out. For the reason of money problems or stress. Along with this we have falling test scores and this "No child left behind" does not seem to be fixing the fact that generations are getting worse each year. Schools teach students how to cheat on test (Guess B if you are unsure, its usually B) which does not reflect the intelligence of the student but kind of a way to cheat the system based on patterns. A lot of people have argued we need to reform public school, and Obama has said he wants to make college free to all students. Why dont we just skip that and get rid of college and instead turn High-schools into trade schools and have mentors come and teach students hand on learning. A trade school can teach you a skill in 6 months and place you in a job place. High-schools have 12 years and don't seem to really do that good of a job. We have trade classes in highschool and that is real life skills, not simply trivial book work. You can tell a person what a disease is and how it works but it does not mean they ever worked in the lab. If we did this it would be a lot more practical.

We can have Accounting/Business math, Cooking/Culinary, Teaching/young leaders, Medical training, English/Young writers, Drama/Music/Performing arts, Art/digital media/cartooning/storyboard artist, Computers/IT, Math/Engineering/Mechanics, Physics/Nuclear physics/Chemistry, Electrical/computer/technology repair, Sports/Professional athletes/Coaches, Band/Young music/Orchestra. We go to school to learn but a lot of people are not really learning, and a lot of graduates have 0 life skills. Clearly the current system is failing so why not just give students life skills and real world training. When they get out, they can shadow mentors in whatever field till they are old enough and apply, or maybe take internships, secretary/office/business administration.

Click to expand...

Yeah - that's the way it's aways been.

Why abolish something that's meant to let the more head strong and elite shine - because it continues to let the more head storng and elite shine?

Re: We should Abolish college

MisterLogical said:

Universities prices to attend have skyrocketed and climb ever higher. Yet not all people can afford to go to a university but this is what all High-schools want us to do. Some push it so much that they prevent students from getting part time jobs in Highschool since they say part time jobs make High school students drop out. Which is very unreasonable since Universities still make us compete to get in and we dont ALL GET IN no matter how good your grades are. So what does this leave? A bunch of people without college training struggling for low wage jobs, a bunch of people going into debt just to afford an education which might not even pan out in the end of it. A lot of people who go to college also drop out. For the reason of money problems or stress. Along with this we have falling test scores and this "No child left behind" does not seem to be fixing the fact that generations are getting worse each year. Schools teach students how to cheat on test (Guess B if you are unsure, its usually B) which does not reflect the intelligence of the student but kind of a way to cheat the system based on patterns. A lot of people have argued we need to reform public school, and Obama has said he wants to make college free to all students. Why dont we just skip that and get rid of college and instead turn High-schools into trade schools and have mentors come and teach students hand on learning. A trade school can teach you a skill in 6 months and place you in a job place. High-schools have 12 years and don't seem to really do that good of a job. We have trade classes in highschool and that is real life skills, not simply trivial book work. You can tell a person what a disease is and how it works but it does not mean they ever worked in the lab. If we did this it would be a lot more practical.

We can have Accounting/Business math, Cooking/Culinary, Teaching/young leaders, Medical training, English/Young writers, Drama/Music/Performing arts, Art/digital media/cartooning/storyboard artist, Computers/IT, Math/Engineering/Mechanics, Physics/Nuclear physics/Chemistry, Electrical/computer/technology repair, Sports/Professional athletes/Coaches, Band/Young music/Orchestra. We go to school to learn but a lot of people are not really learning, and a lot of graduates have 0 life skills. Clearly the current system is failing so why not just give students life skills and real world training. When they get out, they can shadow mentors in whatever field till they are old enough and apply, or maybe take internships, secretary/office/business administration.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but I'd rather my doctor have more than 6 months of training in a trade school. :roll:

Re: We should Abolish college

MisterLogical said:

Universities prices to attend have skyrocketed and climb ever higher. Yet not all people can afford to go to a university but this is what all High-schools want us to do. Some push it so much that they prevent students from getting part time jobs in Highschool since they say part time jobs make High school students drop out. Which is very unreasonable since Universities still make us compete to get in and we dont ALL GET IN no matter how good your grades are. So what does this leave? A bunch of people without college training struggling for low wage jobs, a bunch of people going into debt just to afford an education which might not even pan out in the end of it. A lot of people who go to college also drop out. For the reason of money problems or stress. Along with this we have falling test scores and this "No child left behind" does not seem to be fixing the fact that generations are getting worse each year. Schools teach students how to cheat on test (Guess B if you are unsure, its usually B) which does not reflect the intelligence of the student but kind of a way to cheat the system based on patterns. A lot of people have argued we need to reform public school, and Obama has said he wants to make college free to all students. Why dont we just skip that and get rid of college and instead turn High-schools into trade schools and have mentors come and teach students hand on learning. A trade school can teach you a skill in 6 months and place you in a job place. High-schools have 12 years and don't seem to really do that good of a job. We have trade classes in highschool and that is real life skills, not simply trivial book work. You can tell a person what a disease is and how it works but it does not mean they ever worked in the lab. If we did this it would be a lot more practical.

We can have Accounting/Business math, Cooking/Culinary, Teaching/young leaders, Medical training, English/Young writers, Drama/Music/Performing arts, Art/digital media/cartooning/storyboard artist, Computers/IT, Math/Engineering/Mechanics, Physics/Nuclear physics/Chemistry, Electrical/computer/technology repair, Sports/Professional athletes/Coaches, Band/Young music/Orchestra. We go to school to learn but a lot of people are not really learning, and a lot of graduates have 0 life skills. Clearly the current system is failing so why not just give students life skills and real world training. When they get out, they can shadow mentors in whatever field till they are old enough and apply, or maybe take internships, secretary/office/business administration.

Click to expand...

Sounds like someone wanted to go to college but didn't get in, and now is blaming the system.

Your premise is faulty, as not all professions can be taught in trade school. Your premise is faulty because practical experience is not helpful if one does not have basics and theory, things that are often learned from books and in high school. Your premise is faulty because students who do poorly in school are often a reflection of that student's work ethic. You premise is faulty because ALL schools teach life skills... if you understand what life skills actually are. Your premise is faulty because just about anyone who wants to go to college, can. Basically, your premise is faulty.

Re: We should Abolish college

mike2810 said:

There is nothing wrong with going to a trade school for some careers. It is a shame that high schools have dropped many trade type classes (auto shop, wood shop). They have been replaced by classes that are more concerned about social aspects. I don't agree with the OP that one could get medical training in 6 months.

College has its place for some. Trade schools have their place for others.

Click to expand...

Many states have begun emphasing trades in trade schools and not high schools, a student who wants to learn a trade in high school at my alma mater, South Kitsap High School, home of the wolves, can give up their elective periods, and spend half the school day at a nearby tech and trade school free of tuition

Re: We should Abolish college

Superfly said:

Sorry, but I'd rather my doctor have more than 6 months of training in a trade school. :roll:

Click to expand...

But if it were a medical school with only clinicals plus residency and passing the board, versus the college model would you feel uncomfortable? 6 month degree mill I agree, but would I feel uncomfortable with a 4 year medical school focusing only on medicine and residency and boards still required?

Absolutely not

Re: We should Abolish college

Aunt Spiker said:

Yeah - that's the way it's aways been.

Why abolish something that's meant to let the more head strong and elite shine - because it continues to let the more head storng and elite shine?

Click to expand...

You seem to be missing the point that this is not ALL OF AMERICA. If you say only the top students should have an education and be able to better themselves what about the rest of us? If they are the only ones supporting the economy than why push the rest of us to go to college? What you say is not reasonable since it is saying that only the best performers should have a job, future and support the country. Sorry but that is not going to make a very stable economic structure. If someone is struggling in school we should be assisting them get a job when they are in HS, and not saying "You must be an A student and go to college or else you deserve to be a homeless person". That is complete nonsense. That makes no sense. If we do not believe everyone needs to go to college we need to stop demanding everyone must go. If we can not all get to college there is no reason to take the opportunity to have jobs away from everyone who did not get to college on full rides and were able to afford it. Can you explain why you believe a structure where so little of us are working is a great idea? If 20 out of 200 students go to college that means out of the 200 only the 20 are going to be supporting the economy. That is a completely irrational system.

EMNofSeattle said:

But if it were a medical school with only clinicals plus residency and passing the board, versus the college model would you feel uncomfortable? 6 month degree mill I agree, but would I feel uncomfortable with a 4 year medical school focusing only on medicine and residency and boards still required?

Absolutely not

Click to expand...

They have trade schools and trade classes which teach students to be doctors and nurses in some schools. In fact there was a program my younger brother took and the way it was set up you could go straight to a job site and get on the job experience without taking four years of college schooling. Since part of the year after taking the HS ROP class would be training them on the job site. If you wanted to do Administration work you would just go for four years of college but to be RN, or general care doctor you could do half the time with on the job training. The schools really pushes for healthcare training though. I do not understand why we cant just do this with most of the classes. If the students are being put into hospital positions, they can not be complete fools like you might assume is the case.

donsutherland1 said:

The idea of abolishing college is about the worst policy choice the U.S. could make. It would fundamentally undercut the nation's competitiveness over time, leading to markedly worse economic and social outcomes over time.

For perspective, the employment change from 10/2009 (when the nation's unemployment rate peaked) to 8/2015 by educational attainment is as follows:

Less than High School Diploma: -407,000
High School Diploma, No College: -90,000
Some College or Associate's Degree: +1,831,000
Bachelor's Degree or Higher: +7,051,000

College degrees are costly and discussing means of reducing net costs to students is a fair policy matter. But abolishing perhaps the only mechanism that gives future generations an ability to attain jobs and build careers in an increasingly knowledge-oriented economy would be among the nation's worst policy blunders of all time.

Click to expand...

You are not removing the ability to give generations ability to attain and build careers you would simply be introducing a transitional system that teaches them on the job training and not so much busywork. It would be encouraging trade classes to teach students trades and slowly transition them. The purpose is to make things faster and give more opportunity. Which college does not actually give people. Since we can not afford college and like some of the other posters have said "Only some of us deserve to go to college" that is the same way America sees it. Only some of us deserve to go but all of us HAVE TO GO. If we all have to go, there is no purpose in competing for a spot is there?

Re: We should Abolish college

MisterLogical said:

Universities prices to attend have skyrocketed and climb ever higher. Yet not all people can afford to go to a university but this is what all High-schools want us to do. Some push it so much that they prevent students from getting part time jobs in Highschool since they say part time jobs make High school students drop out. Which is very unreasonable since Universities still make us compete to get in and we dont ALL GET IN no matter how good your grades are. So what does this leave? A bunch of people without college training struggling for low wage jobs, a bunch of people going into debt just to afford an education which might not even pan out in the end of it. A lot of people who go to college also drop out. For the reason of money problems or stress. Along with this we have falling test scores and this "No child left behind" does not seem to be fixing the fact that generations are getting worse each year. Schools teach students how to cheat on test (Guess B if you are unsure, its usually B) which does not reflect the intelligence of the student but kind of a way to cheat the system based on patterns. A lot of people have argued we need to reform public school, and Obama has said he wants to make college free to all students. Why dont we just skip that and get rid of college and instead turn High-schools into trade schools and have mentors come and teach students hand on learning. A trade school can teach you a skill in 6 months and place you in a job place. High-schools have 12 years and don't seem to really do that good of a job. We have trade classes in highschool and that is real life skills, not simply trivial book work. You can tell a person what a disease is and how it works but it does not mean they ever worked in the lab. If we did this it would be a lot more practical.

We can have Accounting/Business math, Cooking/Culinary, Teaching/young leaders, Medical training, English/Young writers, Drama/Music/Performing arts, Art/digital media/cartooning/storyboard artist, Computers/IT, Math/Engineering/Mechanics, Physics/Nuclear physics/Chemistry, Electrical/computer/technology repair, Sports/Professional athletes/Coaches, Band/Young music/Orchestra. We go to school to learn but a lot of people are not really learning, and a lot of graduates have 0 life skills. Clearly the current system is failing so why not just give students life skills and real world training. When they get out, they can shadow mentors in whatever field till they are old enough and apply, or maybe take internships, secretary/office/business administration.

Click to expand...

Looks like somebody went to a public school that does not teach grammar rules at all.

Don't worry -- college is not for you anyway. Nor is grad school. Nor is post-grad and post-doc.

Re: We should Abolish college

donsutherland1 said:

The idea of abolishing college is about the worst policy choice the U.S. could make. It would fundamentally undercut the nation's competitiveness over time, leading to markedly worse economic and social outcomes over time.

For perspective, the employment change from 10/2009 (when the nation's unemployment rate peaked) to 8/2015 by educational attainment is as follows:

Less than High School Diploma: -407,000
High School Diploma, No College: -90,000
Some College or Associate's Degree: +1,831,000
Bachelor's Degree or Higher: +7,051,000

College degrees are costly and discussing means of reducing net costs to students is a fair policy matter. But abolishing perhaps the only mechanism that gives future generations an ability to attain jobs and build careers in an increasingly knowledge-oriented economy would be among the nation's worst policy blunders of all time.

Click to expand...

I can't believe you took the bait.

Re: We should Abolish college

Superfly said:

Sorry, but I'd rather my doctor have more than 6 months of training in a trade school. :roll:

Click to expand...

I absolutely LOVE your kitty avatar !!!

My kitty is all white but otherwise looks Siamese.

I like that guy's avatar where the white kitty says "U has a smell" too.

Re: We should Abolish college

CaptainCourtesy said:

Sounds like someone wanted to go to college but didn't get in, and now is blaming the system.

Your premise is faulty, as not all professions can be taught in trade school. Your premise is faulty because practical experience is not helpful if one does not have basics and theory, things that are often learned from books and in high school. Your premise is faulty because students who do poorly in school are often a reflection of that student's work ethic. You premise is faulty because ALL schools teach life skills... if you understand what life skills actually are. Your premise is faulty because just about anyone who wants to go to college, can. Basically, your premise is faulty.

Click to expand...

Medicine, Nursing, Law, Tax, MBA's, Banking -- these all require college and grad school.

Yes there is also grad school -- something so far beyond your horizons that you have no clue about that at all.

Then there is the teaching aspect of it all -- requiring Ph.D.'s to teach the grad schools.

Jeeze do you ever live under a rock.

Construction work will be fine for you until you get into your 50's and your back can't do it anymore.

You can also try the Army, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard.

The Navy and USAF are probably beyond your league.

Re: We should Abolish college

MisterLogical said:

You can not go back once you graduate. You go till you have a diploma and you leave, that is about it. If I want more education I have to go to college and I can not afford it. Not to mention my school hates it graduates and consider us going anywhere near it as a threat to the school. So we are not allowed on or near premises for any reason. Unless we want them to call the police on us. So your suggestion is really asinine. It is also not relevant to the post. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Click to expand...

The Army, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard all have college savings programs. But if you are good at your job in the Army, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard, you can then retire with either 20, 30, or 40 years in service. 20 pays 50%. 30 pays 75%. 40 pays 100% of regular pay.

You should think about that as a career if you are not cut out for college or cannot afford it.

College however is not your problem.

Trade school or OJT is your problem -- you need to focus on finding something you are strong enough to do, good at, and that you half enjoy.

Re: We should Abolish college

chromium said:

So you didn't even try in high school, which could've gotten you into a top college with a free ride, or at least you could've learned basic grammar, so you come on here incessantly whining that everyone else should be punished for your failure.

And now i see this too: http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-co...not-constitutional-w-13-a.html#post1064999358

Let me guess, you're a tea party spokesman

Click to expand...

Sara Palin was a cheerleader and a housewife. Good read !!!

Re: We should Abolish college

EMNofSeattle said:

Many states have begun emphasing trades in trade schools and not high schools, a student who wants to learn a trade in high school at my alma mater, South Kitsap High School, home of the wolves, can give up their elective periods, and spend half the school day at a nearby tech and trade school free of tuition

Click to expand...

Germany and Japan have been doing this for decades. Good idea. Hope it catches on in the USA too.

An unintended consequence in Japan however is the youth suicides resulting from poor test performances there.

That's not a problem in GErmany too however, where beer is the universal solution to every one of life's many problems.

Re: We should Abolish college

MisterLogical said:

You seem to be missing the point that this is not ALL OF AMERICA. If you say only the top students should have an education and be able to better themselves what about the rest of us? If they are the only ones supporting the economy than why push the rest of us to go to college? What you say is not reasonable since it is saying that only the best performers should have a job, future and support the country. Sorry but that is not going to make a very stable economic structure. If someone is struggling in school we should be assisting them get a job when they are in HS, and not saying "You must be an A student and go to college or else you deserve to be a homeless person". That is complete nonsense. That makes no sense. If we do not believe everyone needs to go to college we need to stop demanding everyone must go. If we can not all get to college there is no reason to take the opportunity to have jobs away from everyone who did not get to college on full rides and were able to afford it. Can you explain why you believe a structure where so little of us are working is a great idea? If 20 out of 200 students go to college that means out of the 200 only the 20 are going to be supporting the economy. That is a completely irrational system.



They have trade schools and trade classes which teach students to be doctors and nurses in some schools. In fact there was a program my younger brother took and the way it was set up you could go straight to a job site and get on the job experience without taking four years of college schooling. Since part of the year after taking the HS ROP class would be training them on the job site. If you wanted to do Administration work you would just go for four years of college but to be RN, or general care doctor you could do half the time with on the job training. The schools really pushes for healthcare training though. I do not understand why we cant just do this with most of the classes. If the students are being put into hospital positions, they can not be complete fools like you might assume is the case.



You are not removing the ability to give generations ability to attain and build careers you would simply be introducing a transitional system that teaches them on the job training and not so much busywork. It would be encouraging trade classes to teach students trades and slowly transition them. The purpose is to make things faster and give more opportunity. Which college does not actually give people. Since we can not afford college and like some of the other posters have said "Only some of us deserve to go to college" that is the same way America sees it. Only some of us deserve to go but all of us HAVE TO GO. If we all have to go, there is no purpose in competing for a spot is there?

Click to expand...

Jeeze !!

There are formal rules for argumentation, debate, logic, paragraphing, and grammar.

Since you were obviously not one of the bright boyz in the high school, you did not get into the forensic debate club.

Give this up.

Find a trade and just go to trade school:

- truck driver
- welder
- construction
- oil rigs
- dockworker
- enlisted military nontechnical

Re: We should Abolish college

Ad hominem is against the rules first off and its a fallacy which goes against your argument. So you should try focusing on the subject not attacking the person posting.

Re: We should Abolish college

MisterLogical said:

Ad hominem is against the rules first off and its a fallacy which goes against your argument. So you should try focusing on the subject not attacking the person posting.

Click to expand...

You are correct. Ad hom is not a good thing.

In your case your thesis about disruption of the higher education process makes absolutely no sense and as such deserves to be dismissed out of hand.

It is just funny though that it is easy to see through what actually went wrong in your own case.

Everyone is just trying to help you not project the blame on higher education.

For whatever reason, secondary schools let you down.

Now you need to either deal with it effectively or correct it.

There may be no way to correct it.

Re: We should Abolish college

MisterLogical said:

Universities prices to attend have skyrocketed and climb ever higher. Yet not all people can afford to go to a university but this is what all High-schools want us to do. Some push it so much that they prevent students from getting part time jobs in Highschool since they say part time jobs make High school students drop out. Which is very unreasonable since Universities still make us compete to get in and we dont ALL GET IN no matter how good your grades are. So what does this leave? A bunch of people without college training struggling for low wage jobs, a bunch of people going into debt just to afford an education which might not even pan out in the end of it. A lot of people who go to college also drop out. For the reason of money problems or stress. Along with this we have falling test scores and this "No child left behind" does not seem to be fixing the fact that generations are getting worse each year. Schools teach students how to cheat on test (Guess B if you are unsure, its usually B) which does not reflect the intelligence of the student but kind of a way to cheat the system based on patterns. A lot of people have argued we need to reform public school, and Obama has said he wants to make college free to all students. Why dont we just skip that and get rid of college and instead turn High-schools into trade schools and have mentors come and teach students hand on learning. A trade school can teach you a skill in 6 months and place you in a job place. High-schools have 12 years and don't seem to really do that good of a job. We have trade classes in highschool and that is real life skills, not simply trivial book work. You can tell a person what a disease is and how it works but it does not mean they ever worked in the lab. If we did this it would be a lot more practical.

We can have Accounting/Business math, Cooking/Culinary, Teaching/young leaders, Medical training, English/Young writers, Drama/Music/Performing arts, Art/digital media/cartooning/storyboard artist, Computers/IT, Math/Engineering/Mechanics, Physics/Nuclear physics/Chemistry, Electrical/computer/technology repair, Sports/Professional athletes/Coaches, Band/Young music/Orchestra. We go to school to learn but a lot of people are not really learning, and a lot of graduates have 0 life skills. Clearly the current system is failing so why not just give students life skills and real world training. When they get out, they can shadow mentors in whatever field till they are old enough and apply, or maybe take internships, secretary/office/business administration.

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I think you're proof as to why we should be investing MORE into education. I'm sure you'd like for all of us to join you at McDonalds, but some of us have real degrees with real job skills. You can not learn to do anything really well in 6 months. Educate yourself.

Re: We should Abolish college

RabidAlpaca said:

I think you're proof as to why we should be investing MORE into education. I'm sure you'd like for all of us to join you at McDonalds, but some of us have real degrees with real job skills. You can not learn to do anything really well in 6 months. Educate yourself.

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I am not saying everyone needs to work at Mcdonalds. You basically said the same thing as I did. I am saying we should educate people, so I dont know why you believe that means we should make everyone work at McDonalds. Pushing for education does not mean flipping burgers. It means educating people.

Ill have to go over this again. High school is FREE, and it does not look like that is going to change. However University is not free and many people have to pay a fortune just to attend. So if all this is doing is putting students in massive debt, why not skip that step? Why not just teach the students what they need to learn in 12 years? Think about it, college has four years unless you go for Masters. Which most people would only go for four at the Max. Highschool has 12 years. If your argument is that we need more than 6 months, High school has 12 years. That would mean you should agree with teaching more interactive/serious classes in Highschool.

Re: We should Abolish college

Moderator's Warning:

Alright folks. Stop making things personal. I have no problem booting your butts outta the thread.