House votes to defund Planned Parenthood

mac · Apr 26, 2011

SheWolf said:
Welfare queen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is a woman making fun of the Welfare Queen stereotype

What does any of this have to do with Reagan and black?

mac · Apr 26, 2011

Geo Patric said:
there is not a lot of fact to this statement. Sociologist Amir Paz-Fuchs in Welfare to Work: Myth and Fact, Social Inclusion and Labour Exclusion says:

a study by Stanford University concluded:

but, to be honest, i cannot see how being dependent on welfare is any morally worse than being dependent on a crappy job that contributes little of any valueto society than the option of greasy french fries .

geo.

When was this study at Stanford completed? At best it is talking about now...and that's largely due to the restrictions on welfare by the welfare reform act. A study in 1993 or earlier would have had different conclusions.

mac · Apr 26, 2011

SheWolf said:
As opposed to accusing PP of racial genocide.... :roll:

I am just calling it like I see it...

lol, me too.

ThePlayDrive · Apr 26, 2011

iamitter said:
To be fair, those scores could just be inflating the numbers.
NY in recent times has been pushing down passing grades and playing it off as greater achievement. However, when they reverted back to the old scale this year, around 1/3-1/2 the number of people passed this year as last year.

Yeah, I'm aware of that possibility particularly since it happened in Illinois where I grew up. From what I've heard from people in education, however, Massachusetts is pretty legitimate in their gains as opposed to places like Illinois, NY and New Jersey among other places that inflated their grades. So I trust the report for now. To be fair, however, in 2005 MA still had a significant black/white gap even as its poor/rich gap got smaller.

mac · Apr 26, 2011

SheWolf said:
Well, back pedal Mac told us to prove his arguments twice in this very thread... Then he magically disappears and returns with a clean slate.

What the hell did that have to do with me? I didn't back pedal, I had to yet again explain to you what you did not understand. Further, I went to great efforts to show you how wrong you were in a previous argument...which you finally got....and it still has done no good. I'm not going to provide you link after link this time. Educate yourself. PP is the largest provider of abortions in the US, it is not the largest provider (of all organizations) of contraception in the US...that would be the VA and MHS, and I really don't care if you take the time to realize that....in fact, I would rather you continue to spew incorrect information (in this case), as this misinformation isn't likely going to cause anyone you may influence to believe that their parents can decide for them the outcome of their pregnancy. This misinfo is relatively harmless....so please, spew it.

mac · Apr 26, 2011

theplaydrive said:
I'm pro-choice so this argument is an empty claim to me. Also you're just justifying your ignoring of history and how unsafe illegal abortion is currently in the world. I don't really care if you ignore it though. Willful ignorance is your problem.

Willful ignorance is basing your opinion on half the truth....the only half you have is from a text book.

Which is why I said that's one if several reasons to keep abortion legal. Read much?

Do you? You obviously didn't understand this statement.

ThePlayDrive · Apr 26, 2011

mac said:
What the hell did that have to do with me? I didn't back pedal, I had to yet again explain to you what you did not understand. Further, I went to great efforts to show you how wrong you were in a previous argument...which you finally got....and it still has done no good. I'm not going to provide you link after link this time. Educate yourself. PP is the largest provider of abortions in the US, it is not the largest provider (of all organizations) of contraception in the US...that would be the VA and MHS, and I really don't care if you take the time to realize that....in fact, I would rather you continue to spew incorrect information.

You actually haven't proved anything. Your four main claims were 1) PP is racist like the KKK - then you backpedaled out of that. 2) Low-income women get the same amount of abortions as middle class women - you were shown to be wrong and then claimed it was "dishonest" when the data simply showed that women at or below poverty level get more abortions 3) PP is something other than a sexual health center - you just left that alone after a while 4) The military provides the most contraception - you just said it without proof. Also, it's worth nothing that the military only started offering emergency contraception in Feb. 2010, so that also hurts your case since PP has always offered it.

SheWolf · Apr 26, 2011

mac said:
What does any of this have to do with Reagan and black?

Did you read what I wrote... Reagan made the phrase "Welfare Queen" famous...

SheWolf · Apr 26, 2011

mac said:
What the hell did that have to do with me? I didn't back pedal, I had to yet again explain to you what you did not understand. Further, I went to great efforts to show you how wrong you were in a previous argument...which you finally got....and it still has done no good. I'm not going to provide you link after link this time. Educate yourself. PP is the largest provider of abortions in the US, it is not the largest provider (of all organizations) of contraception in the US...that would be the VA and MHS, and I really don't care if you take the time to realize that....in fact, I would rather you continue to spew incorrect information (in this case), as this misinformation isn't likely going to cause anyone you may influence to believe that their parents can decide for them the outcome of their pregnancy. This misinfo is relatively harmless....so please, spew it.

Is the military the largest supplier of birth control to women?

Geo Patric · Apr 26, 2011

SheWolf said:
So it might necessarily mean the "black culture" has a problem... but more an issue of there is still a "racist culture"

yeah, though i would prefer to come up with some less defamatory way of expressing that. racism is practice.. who cares what anyone thinks or feels.. what we DO counts. and that there is still discrimination against minorities is patent.

again, with my journalism instructor, i had to agree that yes, black folk HAVE to lose the 'victim' mentality - we had a bit of a 'disagreement', though when it comes to the rest of us. yes, it is important that the black kid take responsibility for his own success.. no one else is gonna do it for him and he will likely face considerable hurdles. but... that does not mean that WE can pretend that those hurdles are a thing of the past. if someone runs over your foot... it was an accident... sure, you can be generous and refuse to see yourself as a victim - forgive the driver. but the fact is you still have a broken foot.

anyway, Malcolm X was right - black folk have to take responsibility for black folk. But, Martin was right too - we as a culture must take responsibility for justice.

geo.

mac · Apr 26, 2011

theplaydrive said:
You actually haven't proved anything. Your four main claims were 1) PP is racist like the KKK -

That's not what I said.

2) Low-income women get the same amount of abortions as middle class women - you were shown to be wrong and then claimed it was "dishonest" when the data simply showed that women at or below poverty level get more abortions

no...it doesn't account for a large percentage of students who get abortions who by income alone fall in the poverty window but aren't really impoverished...or single women who make 100-199% of poverty wages. This is dishonest representation of statistics.

3) PP is something other than a sexual health center - you just left that alone after a while

Planned parenthood is planned parenthood....health centers have medically trained personnel...that great majority of PP clinics do not have these personnel.

4) The military provides the most contraception - you just said it without proof. Also, it's worth nothing that the military only started offering emergency contraception in Feb. 2010, so that also hurts your case since PP has always offered it.

it doesn't matter when they started what....the VA and MHS serve close to 4 times the number of patients a year as PP and provide nearly twice the contraception, of which type is irrelevant.

SheWolf · Apr 26, 2011

theplaydrive said:
You actually haven't proved anything. Your four main claims were 1) PP is racist like the KKK - then you backpedaled out of that. 2) Low-income women get the same amount of abortions as middle class women - you were shown to be wrong and then claimed it was "dishonest" when the data simply showed that women at or below poverty level get more abortions 3) PP is something other than a sexual health center - you just left that alone after a while 4) The military provides the most contraception - you just said it without proof. Also, it's worth nothing that the military only started offering emergency contraception in Feb. 2010, so that also hurts your case since PP has always offered it.

The military provides the most contraception... you didn't prove anything Mac, you told us to "do our own research" :lol:

ThePlayDrive · Apr 26, 2011

mac said:
Willful ignorance is basing your opinion on half the truth....the only half you have is from a text book.

Nah, not so much. In fact, you support my argument.

My claim:

theplaydrive said:
Making abortion illegal leads to illegal dangerous forms of abortion that will lead to black women dying. It makes sense.

Your response:

mac said:
p.s. stricter everything laws increase unsafe everything.

So just like a said, stricter laws on abortion increases unsafe abortion. We agree. What's the problem?

mac said:
Do you? You obviously didn't understand this statement.

Well, considering that you don't even realize that you agree with me and that you didn't understand that I listed safety as ONE of SEVERAL reasons to keep abortion legal despite my repeating it several times, I'm going to assume that you have the problem.

winston53660 · Apr 26, 2011

If this money is taken away from PP that is for prevention of pregnancy how many more abortions will there be?

mac · Apr 26, 2011

SheWolf said:
Did you read what I wrote... Reagan made the phrase "Welfare Queen" famous...

That doesn't mean he associated it with black people. That's just you twisting the truth.

mac · Apr 26, 2011

theplaydrive said:
Nah, not so much. In fact, you support my argument.

My claim:

Your response:

So just like a said, stricter laws on abortion increases unsafe abortion. We agree. What's the problem?

Well, considering that you don't even realize that you agree with me and that you didn't understand that I listed safety as ONE of SEVERAL reasons to keep abortion legal despite my repeating it several times, I'm going to assume that you have the problem.

You're hopeless. The likelihood of a law being violated is never justification for altering the law.

How old are you by the way?

SheWolf · Apr 26, 2011

Geo Patric said:
yeah, though i would prefer to come up with some less defamatory way of expressing that. racism is practice.. who cares what anyone thinks or feels.. what we DO counts. and that there is still discrimination against minorities is patent.

again, with my journalism instructor, i had to agree that yes, black folk HAVE to lose the 'victim' mentality - we had a bit of a 'disagreement', though when it comes to the rest of us. yes, it is important that the black kid take responsibility for his own success.. no one else is gonna do it for him and he will likely face considerable hurdles. but... that does not mean that WE can pretend that those hurdles are a thing of the past. if someone runs over your foot... it was an accident... sure, you can be generous and refuse to see yourself as a victim - forgive the driver. but the fact is you still have a broken foot.

anyway, Malcolm X was right - black folk have to take responsibility for black folk. But, Martin was right too - we as a culture must take responsibility for justice.

geo.

Well, if Oscar wants to say being on Welfare, failing through school, and ending up in jail/prison is "black culture" then white culture is having sex with your family members, being racist, and having a meth addiction.

ThePlayDrive · Apr 26, 2011

mac said:
That's not what I said.

Really?

mac said:
just to get this straight....you thinm an organization such as pp can change its core motivations but another racist organization can not?

mac said:
the only difference between the racism of pp and the racism of somethimg like the kkk is that the kkk is overtly racist.

mac said:
no...it doesn't account for a large percentage of students who get abortions who by income alone fall in the poverty window but aren't really impoverished...or single women who make 100-199% of poverty wages. This is dishonest representation of statistics.

I never made a claim about impoverished, I made a claim about low-income. It's not dishonest, if only because college women who have children tend to become "impoverished" when they drop out of school and take care of a child.

mac said:
Planned parenthood is planned parenthood....health centers have medically trained personnel...that great majority of PP clinics do not have these personnel.

Yeah, it's definitely a sexual health center/family planning center (the terms mean the same thing to me). They do a lot, including abortion and abortion is such a large service because PP is such a large organization.

mac said:
it doesn't matter when they started what....the VA and MHS serve close to 4 times the number of patients a year as PP and provide nearly twice the contraception, of which type is irrelevant.

Let's say the military does provide more contraception in spite of the fact that not everyone in the military goes to the military for contraception and you have not shown proof. It doesn't matter because it says nothing about PP.

SheWolf · Apr 26, 2011

mac said:
That's not what I said.

That is what you said... We can always go back and show you those quotes again, and you'll probably just ignore them again.

Planned parenthood is planned parenthood....health centers have medically trained personnel...that great majority of PP clinics do not have these personnel.

BS... a licensed doctor did my surgery, and a nurse did my pap smear... If I went to the student health service center at my University a nurse would had preformed the pap smear, and it would have cost more.

it doesn't matter when they started what....the VA and MHS serve close to 4 times the number of patients a year as PP and provide nearly twice the contraception, of which type is irrelevant.

There you go again... back pedal, Mac.

Is the military the largest provider of birth control or not?

Stop trying to wiggle out of the damn question, and don't even pretend you are being bullied. If you want to know why we say you back pedal, then at least be honest with yourself.

SheWolf · Apr 26, 2011

mac said:
That doesn't mean he associated it with black people. That's just you twisting the truth.

He, Oscar, didn't even say Welfare Queen... you don't know what you're talking about. I brought it up, because Welfare Queens is the stereotypical black woman, having lots of babies and ripping off the white man image of welfare.

ThePlayDrive · Apr 26, 2011

mac said:
You're hopeless. The likelihood of a law being violated is never justification for altering the law.

Oh. So you ARE illiterate. I'll repeat it again just for good measure: the danger that comes from the likelihood of illegal abortion is ONE of SEVERAL reasons why it should be kept legal. That's about five times that I've had to repeat that mac.

How old are you by the way?

Why do want to know? So you can find something personal about me to attack instead of attacking my arguments like you do to everyone?

mac · Apr 26, 2011

theplaydrive said:
Really?

Really. I said KKK's racism is overt and PP's is not. I also expounded on that, previous to that statement, and prior, that PP's racism is due to Eugenic practice.

I never made a claim about impoverished, I made a claim about low-income. It's not dishonest, if only because college women who have children tend to become "impoverished" when they drop out of school and take care of a child.

That statistics don't talk about what happens after the child is born, but when the child was aborted. You're claim and those statistics are dishonest.

Yeah, it's definitely a sexual health center/family planning center (the terms mean the same thing to me). They do a lot, including abortion and abortion is such a large service because PP is such a large organization.

No, it's not. It's a Planned Parenthood Clinic, nothing more, nothing less.

Let's say the military does provide more contraception in spite of the fact that not everyone in the military goes to the military for contraception and you have not shown proof. It doesn't matter because it says nothing about PP.

Not everyone in the military goes to the military for contraception? Really? When the can walk up to their units doctor and grab a handful of free condoms at any time?? Really? Or perhaps birth control pills for female military members are free, or for female dependents it's nearly free? Just a couple a bucks for 3 months supply? Yeah, makes sense to go somewhere else......

mac · Apr 26, 2011

theplaydrive said:
Oh. So you ARE illiterate. I'll repeat it again just for good measure: the danger that comes from the likelihood of illegal abortion is ONE of SEVERAL reasons why it should be kept legal. That's about five times that I've had to repeat that mac.

Why do want to know? So you can find something personal about me to attack instead of attacking my arguments like you do to everyone?

lol, you just called me illiterate.....anyways.....yeah, I say 19-21.....just guessing..

SheWolf · Apr 26, 2011

theplaydrive said:
Let's say the military does provide more contraception in spite of the fact that not everyone in the military goes to the military for contraception and you have not shown proof. It doesn't matter because it says nothing about PP.

Mac won't show the proof, because there is no proof... He must have heard that the VA is the largest provider of mental health services, and was just confused. He won't admit he was wrong in any case... He's back pedaling and trying to make us look like we're stupid.

THAT'S NOT WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!!

SheWolf · Apr 26, 2011

mac said:
Really. I said KKK's racism is overt and PP's is not. I also expounded on that, previous to that statement, and prior, that PP's racism is due to Eugenic practice.

So in other words, PP is racist... their just not OVERTLY racist... :roll:

FYI... you're still saying they are racist.

No, it's not. It's a Planned Parenthood Clinic, nothing more, nothing less.

When you have nothing else, play semantics...

Clinic
1. a place, as in connection with a Medical school or a hospital, for the treatment of nonresident patients, sometimes at low cost or without charge.
2.a group of physicians, dentists, or the like, working in cooperation and sharing the same facilities.

Clinic | Define Clinic at Dictionary.com

Not everyone in the military goes to the military for contraception? Really? When the can walk up to their units doctor and grab a handful of free condoms at any time?? Really? Or perhaps birth control pills for female military members are free, or for female dependents it's nearly free? Just a couple a bucks for 3 months supply? Yeah, makes sense to go somewhere else......

Anybody can go to PP and get a handful of free condoms... They give them away in brown paper bags, and they offered them to me without asking... :roll:

Being free or not has nothing to do with your claim that the military is the largest provider of birth control...

You're not addressing the question, and btw... I can't go to the VA and get ****, but I can go to PP.