View Poll Results: Animal abortions

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14. You may not vote on this poll
  • I feel the owner has the right to choose an abortion

    13 92.86%
  • I don't feel the owner has the right to choose an abortion

    1 7.14%
  • I believe a judge or state can rule in favor of an animal abortion

    4 28.57%
  • I don't believe a judge or state can rule in favor of an animal abortion

    1 7.14%
  • There is a trimester limit as to when an animal abortion is acceptable

    1 7.14%
  • There is no time limit as to when an animal abortion is acceptable

    8 57.14%
  • I believe that is should only be acceptable in certain situations (heath, incest)

    2 14.29%
  • I believe the situation shouldn't matter (animal was bredl, owner failed to fix animal)

    6 42.86%
  • The Others

    0 0%
  • Not Sure, thinking . . . thinking . . .

    0 0%
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Thread: Animal abortions (dogs, cats, etc)

  1. #1
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    Animal abortions (dogs, cats, etc)

    Curious as to people's thoughts on abortions for dogs, cats and so on:

    Do animals have the right to carry and birth their young?

    How much say should an owner of a pet have in this issue?

    Do all unborn animals have the right to life?

    I did remember to make this poll multiple-choice! So choose as many as you see fit.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 06-18-10 at 08:03 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Animal abortions (dogs, cats, etc)

    the only reason an animal should have an abortion is if its life is in danger, its not hard to get rid off baby animals legally, and you can often make a profit off it.
    Veni, vidi, dormivi!

  3. #3
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    Re: Animal abortions (dogs, cats, etc)

    Please clarify "get rid of" . . . that could easily be twisted.
    I know what you mean, though - and I disagree.

    Animals that are just given away as pups/kittens are most likely to end up in an animal shelter/abandoned and eventually be put to sleep/killed by other means/abused.

    I think it's rather humane to abort - as long as it's done early - and can be done while spaying at the same time.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 06-18-10 at 08:08 AM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Animal abortions (dogs, cats, etc)

    i just don't see any point of aborting them, small animals like dogs and cats aren't pregnant for a long time, and you can give them away or sell them once they are weaned, which is only a few weeks, and i don't think they'd be in any more danger of being abused than animals obtained through any other means.
    Veni, vidi, dormivi!

  5. #5
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    Re: Animal abortions (dogs, cats, etc)

    I should add that I wouldn't have a problem if the owner decided to skip the abortion and just put the animal down. I wouldn't do it myself, but it's not something I feel should be prevented.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  6. #6
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    Re: Animal abortions (dogs, cats, etc)

    Some facts about animals in shelters:
    Dangers of 'puppy for free' ads
    Animal Cruelty - Utah's "Pound Seizure" law sells animals into lab experimentation
    End Pound-Seizure
    Animal rescues and shelter Facts

    About four million dogs enter shelters each year:

    * 400,000 puppies from households that produce litters but do not place the pups in new homes.
    * Strays, about 2.2 million
    * Reclaimed by their owners [of those 2.2 million strays], about 600,000, (leaving 1.6 million strays available for adoption).
    * Owner surrenders, About 1.8 million (300,000 for euthanasia and 1.5 million for adoption).

    One million of the 3.1 million dogs available for adoption do get new homes, leaving 2.1 million additional dogs euthanized.

    I have 10 dogs - over the years we've taken in 4 of them because they were stray, malnourished, and needed help.
    I've had them all fixed, they're doing great, now, and I'm training them (housebreaking and basic commands)l. One was pregnant when we took her in - she had 8 pups, all of which we are also properly caring for (shots, etc) - and are being trained, doing great.

    My goal: find homes for all of them.
    Fact: that's HARD to do - even though I've fixed them all/have them up to date on shots/train them - it's HARD to find someone willing to take an animal in.

    The economy is in the crapper, still, thousands of animals that were beloved pets have been given to shelters because people can't afford to feed them, anymore - and so trying to even give away animals when people can't take in another mouth to feed is beyond impossible right now.

    Some people who have shown interest in taking them in are actually wanting 'purebred' animals - not 'stray-born'
    Others don't seem capable or interested in actually continuing their proper care and training - I've talked with one guy who honestly believed that "since you've trained them I don't have to do it anymore, right?" *sigh*

    I've given up for a while - I'm just keeping them all and praying they don't all get Parvo.

    I let my dog have her pups because I thought "how hard could it be to find homes for them" - I still have them, so that proves that fallacy . . . and I refuse to just hand them out on a street corner. I might as well just have them euthanized instead of fooling myself into thinking they'll be adequately cared for.

    Not to forget that the reason why they were all strays is that, for one reason or another, people decide they don't want them - drive out in the middle of nowhere (where I live) and drop them off, drive away. . . hoping that someone like me is always around to take them in.

    I see countless animals wandering the streets out here. I took in 4 dogs - 3 cats. That's a drop in the bucket compared to the number of animals I've *seen* come through here.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 06-18-10 at 08:51 AM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Animal abortions (dogs, cats, etc)

    Pets are possessions. Possesions are not granted personhood.

    When pets are granted personhood, I'll argue that their fetus should have protections. Until then, it suffices to say that I'm ecocentric.

  8. #8
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    Re: Animal abortions (dogs, cats, etc)

    That's interesting, Eco, with your 'meat is murder' belief I'd expect you'd be more pro animal-rights or equality in some fashion.

  9. #9
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    Re: Animal abortions (dogs, cats, etc)

    I've a sufficient fight trying to get human babies (fetus, whatever) counted as humans (with rights and stuff). You think I want to lead the crusade to consider all life (even non-human) as sacred? How do you think that'd go for me? You really want me to commit political suicide over this issue? I said I was ecocentric, that's clear enough.

    Everyone searches for meaning in life, for supportive convictions that take various forms. Many look to faiths that ignore or discount the importance of this world, not realizing in any profound sense that we are born from Earth and sustained by it throughout our lives. In today’s dominating industrial culture, Earth-as-home is not a self-evident percept. Few pause daily to consider with a sense of wonder the enveloping matrix from which we came and to which, at the end, we all return. Because we are issue of the Earth, the harmonies of its lands, seas, skies and its countless beautiful organisms carry rich meanings barely understood. We are convinced that until the Ecosphere is recognized as the indispensable common ground of all human activities, people will continue to set their immediate interests first. Without an ecocentric perspective that anchors values and purposes in a greater reality than our own species, the resolution of political, economic, and religious conflicts will be impossible. Until the narrow focus on human communities is broadened to include Earth’s ecosystems – the local and regional places wherein we dwell – programs for healthy sustainable ways of living will fail. A trusting attachment to the Ecosphere, an aesthetic empathy with surrounding Nature, a feeling of awe for the miracle of the Living Earth and its mysterious harmonies, is humanity’s largely unrecognized heritage. Affectionately realized again, our connections with the natural world will begin to fill the gap in lives lived in the industrialized world. Important ecological purposes that civilization and urbanization have obscured will re-emerge. The goal is restoration of Earth’s diversity and beauty, with our prodigal species once again a cooperative, responsible, ethical member.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecocentrism


    ps. I don't believe in intrinsic value. I believe all entities have inherent value.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-18-10 at 04:09 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Animal abortions (dogs, cats, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Some facts about animals in shelters:
    Dangers of 'puppy for free' ads
    Animal Cruelty - Utah's "Pound Seizure" law sells animals into lab experimentation
    End Pound-Seizure
    Animal rescues and shelter Facts




    I have 10 dogs - over the years we've taken in 4 of them because they were stray, malnourished, and needed help.
    I've had them all fixed, they're doing great, now, and I'm training them (housebreaking and basic commands)l. One was pregnant when we took her in - she had 8 pups, all of which we are also properly caring for (shots, etc) - and are being trained, doing great.

    My goal: find homes for all of them.
    Fact: that's HARD to do - even though I've fixed them all/have them up to date on shots/train them - it's HARD to find someone willing to take an animal in.

    The economy is in the crapper, still, thousands of animals that were beloved pets have been given to shelters because people can't afford to feed them, anymore - and so trying to even give away animals when people can't take in another mouth to feed is beyond impossible right now.

    Some people who have shown interest in taking them in are actually wanting 'purebred' animals - not 'stray-born'
    Others don't seem capable or interested in actually continuing their proper care and training - I've talked with one guy who honestly believed that "since you've trained them I don't have to do it anymore, right?" *sigh*

    I've given up for a while - I'm just keeping them all and praying they don't all get Parvo.

    I let my dog have her pups because I thought "how hard could it be to find homes for them" - I still have them, so that proves that fallacy . . . and I refuse to just hand them out on a street corner. I might as well just have them euthanized instead of fooling myself into thinking they'll be adequately cared for.

    Not to forget that the reason why they were all strays is that, for one reason or another, people decide they don't want them - drive out in the middle of nowhere (where I live) and drop them off, drive away. . . hoping that someone like me is always around to take them in.

    I see countless animals wandering the streets out here. I took in 4 dogs - 3 cats. That's a drop in the bucket compared to the number of animals I've *seen* come through here.
    It doesn't surprise me that you are a rescue person Aunt S. It fits your nature from what I've read from you. We're "suckers" for orphans ourselves and have lost count of how many we've fostered then ended up adopting. We've got three right now, the latest came to us about a week ago. You don't want to hear the "why" her former human decided to dump her.

    But our experience with these special pets has given us back so much more than it's cost us. (and they all get fixed, if they aren't already)

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