Debate Politics Forums forum
Go Back   Debate Politics Forums > Political forums > Abortion



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-09-10, 09:37 AM   #41
Guru
 
windovervocalcords's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Last Seen: Yesterday 07:11 PM
Location: Jefferson State
Posts: 3,531
Thanks: 476
Thanked 467 Times in 330 Posts
Lean: Liberal
Gender: Female
Re: Thought experiment

What it still gets back to is the 'pro-life' crowd is pro-fetal life and value the zygote over the life of the pregnant woman--someone who is already a person, a fully grown human being and a citizen in the eyes of the law.
__________________
"Every message, regardless of form or content, is an expression of a need."

Marshall Rosenberg, author and trainer in Non-Violent Communication.
windovervocalcords is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Stumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-10, 09:40 AM   #42
Advisor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Last Seen: Yesterday 11:33 PM
Location: Iowa
Posts: 382
Thanks: 92
Thanked 97 Times in 69 Posts
Lean: Liberal
Gender: Female
Re: Thought experiment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
If I were pro-choice, I would argue that rape should be an exception not because the child was a danger, but because the woman might not want a permanent relationship with the rapist. She might not want the rapist to have court ordered access to her life.

However, to fit that into this thought experiment, one would have to establish that whoever broke into the home and put the child there would have legal rights to approach the property for visitation into the foreseeable future; the proximity of the criminal to the building might spark the criminal's propensity for breaking and entering, vandalism, etc.

As pro-life, however, I argue that child should not be kicked outside to certain death simply because some other person might, maybe, post a statistical risk to the building in the future. I would suggest investing in home security.
It's not about a worry that the rapist will someday gain visitation rights. It's about a traumatized woman being forced to live with a daily reminder of her attack, at a significant risk to her physical health and mental status.
kerussll is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Stumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kerussll For This Useful Post:
Old 02-09-10, 09:47 AM   #43
Realist
 
Chuz Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Last Seen: Today 01:27 AM
Location: Nun-ya-dang Bidness
Posts: 1,823
Thanks: 493
Thanked 108 Times in 93 Posts
Lean: Very Conservative

US Marines:  Active duty 1981-1985 - thank you for your service! 
Total Awards: 1

fyi Re: Thought experiment

Quote:
Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
What it still gets back to is the 'pro-life' crowd is pro-fetal life and value the zygote over the life of the pregnant woman--someone who is already a person, a fully grown human being and a citizen in the eyes of the law.
Again, for the record.

Chuz Life <----- is not 'prolife'
__________________
ChuzLife.net
Chuz Life is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Stumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-10, 09:50 AM   #44
Guru
 
windovervocalcords's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Last Seen: Yesterday 07:11 PM
Location: Jefferson State
Posts: 3,531
Thanks: 476
Thanked 467 Times in 330 Posts
Lean: Liberal
Gender: Female
Re: Thought experiment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
Again, for the record.

Chuz Life <----- is not 'prolife'
Do you usually speak of yourself in the third person?
__________________
"Every message, regardless of form or content, is an expression of a need."

Marshall Rosenberg, author and trainer in Non-Violent Communication.
windovervocalcords is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Stumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-10, 09:55 AM   #45
Realist
 
Chuz Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Last Seen: Today 01:27 AM
Location: Nun-ya-dang Bidness
Posts: 1,823
Thanks: 493
Thanked 108 Times in 93 Posts
Lean: Very Conservative

US Marines:  Active duty 1981-1985 - thank you for your service! 
Total Awards: 1

Re: Thought experiment

Quote:
Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
Do you usually speak of yourself in the third person?
I don't know,...

I've never asked him / myself.

But Chuz Life does have over One Thousand posts in this thread before he did so,.... so we (Chuz Life and I) would probably say that it's not something he / we usually do.

:::guffaw:::
__________________
ChuzLife.net
Chuz Life is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Stumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-10, 09:55 AM   #46
Paratus Preliator

Tetris Champion
 
Jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Last Seen: Yesterday 08:46 AM
Location: Clinging tenaciously to my guns and bibles.
Posts: 18,468
Thanks: 5,076
Thanked 3,681 Times in 2,547 Posts
Lean: Conservative
Gender: Male

Private Debates:  The person has participated in a Private Debate sponsored by DebatePolitics.com True Debate Winner:  True Debate Winner Private Debates:  Jerry has participated in a Private Debate. Reverse Debates:  Thank you! 
Total Awards: 4

Re: Thought experiment

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerussll View Post
It's not about a worry that the rapist will someday gain visitation rights. It's about a traumatized woman being forced to live with a daily reminder of her attack, at a significant risk to her physical health and mental status.
The simple fact that one would look at their own child and see nothing but rape is evidence of a crippled mental status.

Give the child up for adoption. If all you see is rape when you look at your own blood then giving it up should be fairly easy.
__________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
~~Thomas Jefferson
Jerry is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Stumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jerry For This Useful Post:
Old 02-09-10, 04:38 PM   #47
Advisor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Last Seen: Yesterday 11:33 PM
Location: Iowa
Posts: 382
Thanks: 92
Thanked 97 Times in 69 Posts
Lean: Liberal
Gender: Female
Re: Thought experiment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
The simple fact that one would look at their own child and see nothing but rape is evidence of a crippled mental status.

Give the child up for adoption. If all you see is rape when you look at your own blood then giving it up should be fairly easy.
I was speaking of the pregnancy.
kerussll is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Stumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-10, 09:00 PM   #48
Paratus Preliator

Tetris Champion
 
Jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Last Seen: Yesterday 08:46 AM
Location: Clinging tenaciously to my guns and bibles.
Posts: 18,468
Thanks: 5,076
Thanked 3,681 Times in 2,547 Posts
Lean: Conservative
Gender: Male

Private Debates:  The person has participated in a Private Debate sponsored by DebatePolitics.com True Debate Winner:  True Debate Winner Private Debates:  Jerry has participated in a Private Debate. Reverse Debates:  Thank you! 
Total Awards: 4

Re: Thought experiment

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerussll View Post
I was speaking of the pregnancy.
Well I suppose then that seeing the child in the living room would be a constant reminder of the home invasion....still doesn't give anyone the right to kick the child out.

Beat the **** out of the home invaders, hell yeah, but the child didn't do anything. If you think or feel something when you look at the child, that's you choosing to think it, not the child forcing you to think it.

The child is every bit as much a victim as the raped woman is.
__________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
~~Thomas Jefferson
Jerry is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Stumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-10, 09:37 PM   #49
Advisor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Last Seen: Yesterday 11:33 PM
Location: Iowa
Posts: 382
Thanks: 92
Thanked 97 Times in 69 Posts
Lean: Liberal
Gender: Female
Re: Thought experiment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
Well I suppose then that seeing the child in the living room would be a constant reminder of the home invasion....still doesn't give anyone the right to kick the child out.

Beat the **** out of the home invaders, hell yeah, but the child didn't do anything. If you think or feel something when you look at the child, that's you choosing to think it, not the child forcing you to think it.

The child is every bit as much a victim as the raped woman is.
So I should beat the **** out of my home invaders, but protect my bodily invaders?

I don't think I'm understanding your analogy, but I really don't like analogies so that's ok.
kerussll is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Stumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-10, 10:14 PM   #50
Paratus Preliator

Tetris Champion
 
Jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Last Seen: Yesterday 08:46 AM
Location: Clinging tenaciously to my guns and bibles.
Posts: 18,468
Thanks: 5,076
Thanked 3,681 Times in 2,547 Posts
Lean: Conservative
Gender: Male

Private Debates:  The person has participated in a Private Debate sponsored by DebatePolitics.com True Debate Winner:  True Debate Winner Private Debates:  Jerry has participated in a Private Debate. Reverse Debates:  Thank you! 
Total Awards: 4

Re: Thought experiment

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerussll View Post
So I should beat the **** out of my home invaders, but protect my bodily invaders?
The child didn't do anything against you. Her presence inside your home is beyond her control, so there's no reason be violent against her.
__________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
~~Thomas Jefferson
Jerry is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!Stumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO
Debate Politics.com Copyright ©2004-2009
no new posts