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Right. I know..it was a ''pre-people''. Heard it all.
That's not what I said at all.
Right. I know..it was a ''pre-people''. Heard it all.
That's not what I said at all.
Honestly, I do know what you are trying to say. I think unless we are an aborted fetus, one that experienced an abortion, we can't know positively what it is like, or what is felt, no matter what we are told.
Sorry if I came across snarky.
It's okay. I do it ALL the time. Especially in abortion threads. :2wave:
Welcome to DP.
No, you're just pathetically ignorant of history and the origins of your own religion.
"Puppet of his church". Not only does your ignorance know no bounds, but it is matched only by your penchant for being a droll little liar, too.
Irrelevant.
The girl we're discussing was carrying twins. She would not have lived through the pregnancy.
.
THERE IS MORE TO THE STORY....
Waiting longer could have given the babies a chance at life--even waiting 6 weeks would have dramatically improved their odds. The girl was already 15 or 16 weeks pregnant. If it became medically necessary, then it would be moral to defend the girls life against the threat of death, but at the point they aborted, that was not the case according to IMIP
With this information, the Bishop did the correct thing according to Catholic teaching. My guess is that the girl's mother wished to hide the fact that her husband is a scum-bag by aborting her grandchildren, and the pro-abortion pres/health minister/media et al are all using this tragedy to further their agenda. Sick--truly sick. That poor girl. With all these people USING her and publicising her personal tragedy, she will most definitely need the ministering of the Church in years to come.
You said ...Irrelevant. .
Vader said:There is not a 9 year-old female in this world who is physically developed enough to carry a child to term. .
True--but the Bishop wasn't commenting on the legality--he was commenting on the Church's position on the matter--a MORAL position.No, Felecity, he did not.
Quit defending the idiotic, hypocritical actions of the Archbastard.
The girl was nine years old and pregnant THROUGH NO FAULT OF HER OWN. This is SUFFICIENT CAUSE for an abortion EVEN IF ADOLF POPLAR DOESN'T LIKE IT.
And again--perhaps an abortion would have become necessary to protect her life, but at the point they killed the twins, it was not a medical imperative.Second, she WOULD NOT have survived the pregnancy. Her total body weight is 80lbs. Her uterus is not developed enough to carry ONE BABY let alone TWO BABIES!
Quit your moralizing. You have no ethical standing with your bigoted bull**** spewed like a full bladder-ed two-year old in a warm draft.Shame on you for making excuses for your church.
That's not what the Church is/was suggesting. You're pissing on a strawman.Truth be told --- I don't like abortion either but I am NOT going to accept that the Catholic church is willing to sacrifice the life a 9 year-old incest victim to save the products of rape.
It's disgraceful!
The Catholic church has behaved hypocritically and shamefully and the archbishop is a hypocrite. He attacked the parent of that girl and the doctors who saved her life because they chose to save the life of an underage rape victim.
This is HYPOCRISY on the part of the church. The archbishop is a DISGRACE. Adolf Poplar is former NAZI ASSHOLE!!!! NOW HE'S JUST AN ASSHOLE!!!!
You said ...
You are simply wrong. :shrug: Apparently, a 5 year old can do it.
True--but the Bishop wasn't commenting on the legality--he was commenting on the Church's position on the matter--a MORAL position.
And again--perhaps an abortion would have become necessary to protect her life, but at the point they killed the twins, it was not a medical imperative.
Quit your moralizing. You have no ethical standing with your bigoted bull**** spewed like a full bladder-ed two-year old in a warm draft.
That's not what the Church is/was suggesting. You're pissing on a strawman.
And you're the voice of reason...:roll:
The point is not whether she would have lived, but whether the delivery of the twins could have been delayed to offer them a more likely chance at survival, or even if that was unlikely, delayed until the pregnancy was at a point where it was a threat ACTUALLY, rather than the potential threat that it was. Perhaps it never would have become an ACTUAL threat--though likely it would have. Simply wait until the course is clear, and then do what one must to protect the girl's life. As it was, the preemptive killing of the twins was not a moral imperative.
Moderator's Warning: |
Spewing the stuff that gets a thread dropped into the sewer does not single handedly cause it to go there, but it does cause a thread ban. Those that wish to have civil discourse about this may continue |
Here is a Brazilian source translated (my bolding):
Pregnancy in 9-year-old girl in Brazil interrupted "Brazil Magazine: News & Reports live from Brazil
That backs up the Lifesitenews article.
Because the girl was raped, it was a "legal" abortion--however, legal is irrelevant to the moral stance of the Catholic Church. My source states that the 1st hospital indicated she was not in immediate danger--the version you are giving doesn't seem to be reported in my translated source and I can't read Portuguese! Can you find a translated source?
Well, I don't know what to tell you. You'll just have to trust me on this one because, unfortunately I don't have an English source for this. All the English articles I could find were published after the family switched hospitals. The funny part is also that I can't find any later Brazilian sources that state that IMIP wasn't going to perform the abortion.
(
The nine-year-old girl who in Brazil for years by her stepfather has been abused and now with twins in the 4th Months pregnant, the pregnant pause. This was announced by the competent Instituto Materno Infantil Professor Fernando Figueira (Imip) in Recife in the state of Pernambuco known. In the mother-child clinic, the young girls being medically and psychologically intensive care. According to the treating physicians is in the twin pregnancy an extreme health risk to the child. This therefore justifies a pregnancy interruption, which are otherwise under Brazilian law is strictly prohibited. The family of the girl has agreed to the surgery.
As the medical institute also announced today, Saturday, and that the nine-year-old a further ultrasound examination have been made. The girl was with the twins in the 15th Weeks pregnant. All necessary documents for a judicial authorization of abortion due to rape have been filed, however, is currently unclear whether any such arrangement was necessary. Presumed range from the medical indication for the surgery can legally carry.
The pregnancy of the nine-year-old girl in Brazil, which after years of sexual abuse by the stepfather was pregnant with twins, was this morning at a hospital in Recife interrupted. As the doctors treated stated that the approximately 4-month-old fetuses successfully removed and the uterus is cleaned. Were no complications occurred. The mother had only at the hospital were visited yesterday evening, after the doctors in another hospital had refused the surgery without judicial approval provided. The biological father of the child had previously shared with the Catholic Archbishop of Recife and Olinda against a demolition pronounced (more ...).
Archbishop Jose Cardoso Sobrinho of Olinda and Recife said the abortion was "a crime in the eyes of the church."
He told the Brazilian newspaper Folha de Sao Paulo that "it's true the doctor said the child ran (health) risks, but at any rate, the end does not justify the means. The good aim of saving her life can not justify the killing of two other lives."
For the most, I agree with you, but I can't help but give him (the bishop) the benefit of the doubt. It appears there is a political stand-off between the Church and those in Governmental power in Brazil, and as an American citizen having just experienced a changeover in political power, I am all too familiar with the use of the media to mold public opinion.I found this as well:
http://http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0901074.htm
So he does acknowledge that there were significant risks, but still refuses to admit that the doctors did the right thing. What would he have said if all three lives had been lost in the end?
Either this man is terrible at expressing himself, or he is looking at any possible reason to justify his initial position. This is a PR nightmare for the Church.
I have nothing against the Church's right to its stance on abortion. Their house, their rules. I do however think that this particular bishop is a horrible, horrible representative of the Church. Priests like him are what made me ashamed to say that I was a Catholic, back when I still called myself one. You can't possibly defend this man's handling of this situation. He could not have been more insensitive if he tried.
The other stipulation is that any report of rape to the police by a pregnant rape victim, within the acceptable first trimester abortive window, grants the health authority permission to perform an abortion.
The 1st trimester ends at 12 weeks. This girl was 15 or 16 weeks along. This was a 2nd trimester abortion. Does that affect the legality of doing this without judicial review of the case?
http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=167#latinamerica said:Abortion is legal in Brazil only in cases of rape or incest or when the mother's life is in danger. Under federal regulation, hospitals require a formal determination that a pregnancy has resulted from rape or incest before performing an abortion. Many women in Brazil illegally use the drug Cytotec to induce miscarriage, and the government estimates that more than 200,000 Brazilian women are hospitalized annually as a result of botched abortions.
I did find this interesting snippet, however:
A perfect example of why keeping abortion illegal is only harming more people while ignoring human realities.
Well in this case she had the doctor's consent for a therapeutic abortion, and my guess would be that that can extend beyond the 12 week period since saving the mother still takes priority. To what extent, I don't know. I tried looking up Brazilian law but my Portuguese is a little rusty these days..