Iriemon

I think the assumption that McCain would change back to his pro-choice stance is naive, 1069, and dangerous to presume if you believe in the right to an abortion.

See this thread where I've started a topic on the issue if you want to discuss it further:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-ele...on-rights.html

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Matthew 5:9

1069

A republican president would pretty much have his hands tied by the democratic house and senate at this point. Just like Bush.
I'm not worried. The pendulum is swinging left again.
Society is not going to put up with too much more invasive social conservative bull****.
Fundies, as a demographic, are shrinking. It is becoming less and less necessary to pander to them.
I think this whole "fundamentalist Christian" movement was the result of some sort of millenial hysteria- around here (in Texas) many people thought- consciously or subconsciously- that the world was going to end, or to change in some irrevocable way, as the year 2000 approached.
I think now everybody's chilled out a little bit, upon seeing that the world has not ended after all, and the real changes that need to be made are the ones the Left has been pushing all along- clean up the environment, reduce fossil fuel dependence, universal health care, stop warmongering.

I think, as rallying cries, both "Stop Abortion!" and "Gay Marriage is A Sin!" have lost some of their efficacy.
Those ideas don't help the situation in any practical way; if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
I seriously believe we're moving away from social conservatism and into the realm of much more practical activism.
I have seen it.
I don't believe abortion rights are in danger at this time (or, honestly, in the near future, or in the distant future).
That's my opinion, and I'm not uninformed in the matter. I keep pretty well abreast of things.
I see- and I'm disappointed to admit this- groups like NARAL fearmongering in an attempt to solicit donations.
But I do not perceive that the threat is as real or as immediate as it has been in the past, when Republicans briefly held almost total power over this country. And even then, abortion rights remained secure.

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"I do love this idea that one can scream and scream and scream, with that utopia just one more scream away."
~ Scucca

new coup for you

I'm not convinced Red America has learned anything.

Evidence: McCain.

They're getting suckered by the same stupid "small government" lies, again.

I think they haven't reexamined their beliefs at all, they just think Bush wasn't good at implementing them.

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And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

Iriemon

According to Aquapub, its an intentional strategy to put the US into a financial crises. He could be right.

Iriemon

Bush's hands weren't so tied that he wasn't able to appoint two anti-Roe justices (Alito and Roberts) to the Supreme court, giving them 4 out of the 5 members.

With one more the Roe majority is gone. The president makes that decision. And McCain has made it clear and unambiguous that that is what he will do.

Why do you not think that is not a danger?

1069

Because I'm convinced the Republican party does not want it and will not allow it to happen, even as they make every effort to appease the uneducated conservative masses into believing that they're doing all they can to effect such a change.
In fact, I do not believe they would allow it. They know as well as we do that it would be disastrous.
Bush might've criminalized abortion, had he been able to, which he wasn't.
But Bush is a special case. There are no other Republican candidates, no other Republican politicians (on a national level; perhaps on a very small scale State or municipal level, there are) like Bush.
McCain is not like Bush. McCain is fundamentally sane.
Should McCain win, there's no way he and his administration would want to be associated with opening the can of worms that overturning Roe would be.
He would protect Roe, even as he gave lip service to believing abortion to be immoral and/or tragic, as every president since Nixon has done.
It's the only possibility.
Bush was a loose cannon; we've all paid the price and learned our lesson, even the conservatives.
Never again will a politician so incompetent, so unqualified, and so fundamentally unstable and outside the mainstream be elected to the highest office in the land.
The job of the next president- be that Hillary, McCain, or Obama- will be to return our nation to sanity and normalcy, to reassure the American people and make them feel safe again, to unite our wounded and divided nation.
It will probably take three or four terms, however, for America to recover from the damage Bush has done. And that's under the best of circumstances.
The job of the next president will be to pull us out of the quagmire in the middle east and to stabilize the economy. To figure out some way to provide for the poor, and for the blue-collar working class, who can now no longer afford health care either, even if they could when times were better.
The last thing the next president would dream of doing is revoking women's reproductive rights, or fiddling around with any of the fundamentalist agenda.
I know this for a fact; we have nothing to worry about.
I don't know what else to say about it.
If we're still both here on this message board in three years, and if McCain is our president, I'll say, "See? I told you so."

Iriemon

Can you expound on this? The know it woudl be disasterous how and for whom such that they would not allow the final deciding vote on the court.

Certainly the religious right faction which is a dominant part of the party does not believe it would be disasterous to overturn Roe.

That is a fallacy. Scalia and Thomas (appointed by Reagan and Bush1, I think) have flat out said they would overturn Roe. Alito and Roberts have that in their background, and last term voted to uphold a 2d term prohibition of abortion even where the mother's life is at stake.

I wonder if you appreciate how close Roe is to being history.

Here I differ with your view that the three candidates would be the same. If McCain is elected we will be in the quagmire 4 more years.

There economic policies are fundamentally different as well. McCain would keep the Bush tax cuts and cut trillions more, at a time when our nation is dangerously in debt. Clinton and Obama would raise taxes, and some of that increase would go to new spending on health care.

Here again, McCain's position is dramatically different as recently indicated where he opposed a law which would give women a remedy to sue for equal pay for equal work, on the basis that it would cause lawsuits.

You are asserting McCain is flat out lying when he promises to do the opposite.

Seems like a thin reed upon which to sail the ship.

talloulou

You don't think Obama has a chance?

Billo_Really

I have no opinion on abortion.

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"Political correctness is tyranny with manners"
- Charlton Heston

bub

neither do I, Billo

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