1/21/17 Women's March on Washington

JayDubya · Jan 5, 2017

That's dishonest.

While IUDs have a known secondary mechanism of preventing implantation, common oral contraceptives do not - they prevent ovulation and are thus not an abortifacient.

With no ovulation, no fertilization. With no fertilization, no new human being.

It is of course true that deliberately preventing implantation is a killing act, so IUDs are completely unconscionable.

minnie616 · Jan 5, 2017

Josie said:
I don't know anyone who wants to criminalize women who use any contraceptives. I can see very anti-abortion people being for criminalizing the morning after pills, but not the common birth control pill. Perhaps Gladiator can help us out.

The morning after pills work like oral birth control pills by delaying ovulation.

However, the birth control pill's status as a potential abortifacient has not found universal agreement, even within the pro-life community. For example, a paper published more than a decade ago by the American Association of Pro-life Obstetricians and Gynecologists—whose authors describe themselves as "committed to honoring the sanctity of human life from conception"—concludes based on a thorough evaluation of the available literature that there is not "substantive evidence that hormone contraceptives include an abortifacient mechanism of action."

Further inconsistency among pro-lifers is seen in the fact that greater opposition exists among abortion opponents for the morning after pill than for the regular birth control pill, which in most cases is the same medication taken hours later and in varying dosage, but working in the same way—with, presumably, an increased risk of implantation rather than fertilization being interrupted. Presumably, but not evidentially. I have never understood pro-lifers' squeamishness at the morning after pill absent the same concern with the daily pill—except perhaps the latter hits a bit closer to home for so many.

Of course, empirical evidence is not the sole basis for moral decision-making. Take instances of rape, for example. Fr. Paul CB Schenck, Respect Life Director for the Catholic Diocese of Harrisburg and Liaison to the Catholic Medical Association in Central Pennsylvania, explains,

Plan B [the morning after pill] may be used in a morally licit way in case of rape. If a pregnancy test is negative, A Catholic practitioner may administer Plan B within 72 hours to inhibit ovulation, thus preventing pregnancy without risking abortion. All that is necessary is moral certitude, not empirical certitude, that there is no human life in danger. So it is not as rigid as some assume or represent. It is always about life present, or the deliberate and intentional act against life. In the case or rape, the intent of Plan B is not to stop life, but to stop the act of the rapist from reaching its ordered end: impregnation, which would be a form of success of the violent assault. Therefore, a Catholic health plan may include emergency use of Plan B in case of rape, provided it is accompanied by a pregnancy test.

The Pill: Contraceptive or Abortifacient? - The Atlantic

Gladiator · Jan 5, 2017

Josie said:
I don't know anyone who wants to criminalize women who use any contraceptives. I can see very anti-abortion people being for criminalizing the morning after pills, but not the common birth control pill. Perhaps Gladiator can help us out.

It is probably true that there are few people who actually believe that contraceptives should be criminalized. But there are at least a few criminalizers who have weedled into powerful positions by speaking out the anti-abortion rhetoric, instead of revealing their true inclinations. Then, from the Anti-Abortion perspective, policies that will work against women's access to familyplanning products. Simply repealing ACA removes the requirement for insurance companies to cover contraceptives. It will only take a few loud Republicans to insist that contraceptives be left out of any revised ACA legislation.

"In 2007 Cuccinelli Cosponsored A So-Called “Personhood” Bill. On January 10, 2007, Sen. Cuccinelli cosponsored legislation that would expand “the right to enjoyment of life” protected by Article 1, § 1 of the Virginia Constitution to “preborn human beings from the moment of fertilization.” The bill was rejected by a 43-53 vote in the Virginia House of Delegates on February 2, 2007. [HB 2797, 2/5/07]

Legislation That Defines A Fertilized Egg As A Human Being Would Ban All Abortions, Including Those Resulting From Rape And Incest, And Would Declare Common Forms Of Birth Control, Like The IUD, As Murder. According to New York Times, “A constitutional amendment facing voters in Mississippi on Nov. 8, and similar initiatives brewing in half a dozen other states including Florida and Ohio, would declare a fertilized human egg to be a legal person, effectively branding abortion and some forms of birth control as murder. […]The amendment in Mississippi would ban virtually all abortions, including those resulting from rape or incest. It would bar some birth control methods, including IUDs and ‘morning-after pills,’ which prevent fertilized eggs from implanting in the uterus. It would also outlaw the destruction of embryos created in laboratories.” [New York Times, 10/26/11]"

https://americanbridgepac.org/bridge-briefing-cuccinelli-personhood-birth-control/

Roe v. Wade allows the government to criminalize the Second and Third Trimesters, The more laws about the 2nd trimester, the more cautious family planning providers will be about approaching he end of the first trimester. This is about eroding Roe v. Wade.

https://rewire.news/article/2016/09...ns-renew-calls-outlawing-later-abortion-care/

More proposals to criminalize or limit access to contraceptives are probably being proposed behind closed doors. Anti-Contraceptive activists may become less reserved, as Trump takes office.

Searching for anti-choice legislative proposals is an important task that will continue at least until the Republicans are out of the White House.

ReverendHellh0und · Jan 6, 2017

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Okie dokie.

I never asked you to. I just said I couldn't be ****ed with someone who already said they'd ignore any evidence provided before I even provided it. :shrug: Anyway.

Intersex people.

(Many good links *within* here too) https://www.opensocietyfoundations....s-still-performing-genital-surgery-on-infants

Like I said, this is not a secret, and it's not hard to find the medical establishment plainly admitting to doing this routinely. They still refer to it as "genital reshaping" even now. This is major cosmetic genital surgery that can be so extreme as to include total gonad removal. This is done on young children and infants without their consent, paying no mind to their identity, and for no health-related reason. Simply because the adults in question are uncomfortable with non-binary genital appearance.

Here's a lovely article about doctors performing 16 surgeries on an intersex child who identified as a male, to try to force him to be female. This was done while he was in foster care -- the government plainly knew this was happening, since they were the ones paying for it. Again, this is considered medically acceptable. He now has gender dysphoria and a boat load of trauma, but fortunately awesome adoptive parents.

Gender Reassignment Surgery: Parents Sue Doctors For Making Their Intersex Child A Girl, Claiming Genital Mutilation

Corrective rape.

First, a quick headnote here about how we look at statistics with asexuals in isolation: we don't. Here's why.

A large percentage of asexuals have sex. Regularly. Most of them are either coerced into doing so, or being medicalized and told they're sick for mood or hormone reasons, despite an absence of any evidence of illness (asexuality is not a result of any medical condition). Asexuality is not a respected orientation (even within the LGBT community, sometimes), and many people don't realize they are asexual until they're in their 30's, 40's, or beyond. They believe that they are broken, because they aren't aware asexuality exists and is a healthy state of being.

So finding statistics about asexuals is hard. We look at cases, when talking about things like asexual corrective rape, or rape culture. So here's a buncha' those, taken from sources with various leans to satisfy whatever your preferred bend is.

Battling Asexual Discrimination, Sexual Violence And 'Corrective' Rape | The Huffington Post
Asexual woman on how she never has, and never will, have sex | Daily Mail Online
https://goodmenproject.com/noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz/asexual-men-and-rape/
http://asexualsurvivors.org/

Some science about the extent of anti-asexual prejudice by all sexual groups.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1368430212442419

...All that said, information about corrective rape pertaining to lesbians is more pervasive. Historically, this is the image of corrective rape we're accustomed to seeing, and it is still around. Typically, we see this most in the military. And in terms of proving the phenomenon itself, I can just give you a straight-up study, stating plainly that wsw experience rape more often than straight women, and it is frequently under the guise of being corrective.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3695269/

So there's a good place to start from.

Wait. so people who don't want to have sex are now a special snowflake category?

Gladiator · Jan 7, 2017

ReverendHellh0und said:
Wait. so people who don't want to have sex are now a special snowflake category?

Catholic Nuns and Priests might be considered Asexual. Other religions have orders with vows of celibacy. Some elderly or some various diseases create conditions that have little or no desire for sexual arousal. Some heart conditions make arousal a risky situation for some people. Some people with epilepsy, or epileptic tendencies, have a higher risk of having a seizure, if arousal is not avoided.

One advantage of having a classification of Asexual could be for friends or roommates of asexual people, to avoid actions that might lead to arousal. Avoid flirting, avoid discussing erotic perspectives, avoid erotic art or girlie magazines. Choice of movies.

Upon considering the concept of Asexuality, I see a value in the concept, for adjusting my personal perspective to be considerate to Asexual people, in general.

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ReverendHellh0und · Jan 9, 2017

Gladiator said:
Catholic Nuns and Priests might be considered Asexual. Other religions have orders with vows of celibacy. Some elderly or some various diseases create conditions that have little or no desire for sexual arousal. Some heart conditions make arousal a risky situation for some people. Some people with epilepsy, or epileptic tendencies, have a higher risk of having a seizure, if arousal is not avoided.

One advantage of having a classification of Asexual could be for friends or roommates of asexual people, to avoid actions that might lead to arousal. Avoid flirting, avoid discussing erotic perspectives, avoid erotic art or girlie magazines. Choice of movies.

Upon considering the concept of Asexuality, I see a value in the concept, for adjusting my personal perspective to be considerate to Asexual people, in general.

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Seriously? I can't do pull ups anymore because of a shoulder injury. Can I be a special snowflake now too?

Do you realize how stupid this all sounds? we are equal under the law. why are we making special divisions?

faithful_servant · Jan 9, 2017

Gladiator said:
Women's March Starts at 10 AM, Saturday, the day after Inauguration on Friday,

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/womens-march-on-washington-official-tickets-29428287801

The struggle for Women's Rights becomes more difficult.

Are you referring to the idea that Trump becoming President means that it will be harder for women?? Odd.... Up until the election, Trump was known for being the guy who championed "breaking the glass ceiling". He was also known for putting people into jobs based on their qualifications, not their racial heritage. But now that he's a Rep. President, all that gets ignored in favor of hate.

faithful_servant · Jan 9, 2017

TheGoverness said:
This really has nothing much to do with Women's rights, and more to do with post-Trump whining.

Exactly. It also reflects ignorance of what Trump has done in favor what people are told about Trump. This guy was well known for his efforts at putting the best people into the right jobs without regard to race, gender, sexual orientation. If you could get the job done better than the next guy, you got the job. Trump pushed true equal opportunity by basing his decisions on qualification and not identity. If these people were honest and accurately informed, they'd be cheering the Trump election.

Gladiator · Jan 13, 2017

faithful_servant said:
Are you referring to the idea that Trump becoming President means that it will be harder for women?? Odd.... Up until the election, Trump was known for being the guy who championed "breaking the glass ceiling". He was also known for putting people into jobs based on their qualifications, not their racial heritage. But now that he's a Rep. President, all that gets ignored in favor of hate.

Republicans cause Family planning services to spend more money on legal fees. The US Congress is investigating Planned Parenthood, and that is forcing money to be spent on legal fees to handle requests for info and preparing testimony.

Sometimes the money for legal fees has to be returned:

Taxpayers on Hook for Planned Parenthood’s $1.6 Million in Legal Fees | Law News

Sometimes fees reimbursement challenged.

State moves to kill Planned Parenthood's bid for attorney fees

US Republican Congress Continues Planned Parenthood investigation:

House votes to double budget for Planned Parenthood investigation | TheHill

400,000 expected at the Women's March, 1/21/17

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/10/us/politics/womens-march-guide.html

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CivicED · Jan 13, 2017

Gladiator said:
Women's March Starts at 10 AM, Saturday, the day after Inauguration on Friday,

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/womens-march-on-washington-official-tickets-29428287801

The struggle for Women's Rights becomes more difficult.

My wife and I will be marching in this event.

I will share a few reasons what this March means to me.

I am worried women's issues are not going to be talked about enough in the next four years based on Donald Trumps campaign.

Things like:
Lack of women in government
Women pay more for healthcare
Right to choose
Women over taxed
Equal pay
Maternity leave/prenatal care

But most important is the cultural image we put on women that I feel needs to change in the US and most religions.

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RetiredUSN · Jan 13, 2017

CivicED said:
My wife and I will be marching in this event.

I will share a few reasons what this March means to me.

I am worried women's issues are not going to be talked about enough in the next four years based on Donald Trumps campaign.

Things like:
Lack of women in government
Women pay more for healthcare
Right to choose
Women over taxed
Equal pay
Maternity leave/prenatal care

But most important is the cultural image we put on women that I feel needs to change in the US and most religions.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So, you are marching for more free stuff?

CivicED · Jan 13, 2017

RetiredUSN said:
So, you are marching for more free stuff?

Yes discussing these issues is free to do. And in my personal opinion these issues will not get talked about in the next four years.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Henrin · Jan 15, 2017

CivicED said:
Lack of women in government

Plenty of women are in all levels of government. Not sure what you want there.

Women pay more for healthcare

Because they use more in healthcare services. Do you think the average thirty year old women goes to the doctor more often then the average thirty year old man? I do. Why do you think that shouldn't be reflected in what they pay?

Right to choose

Already exists.

Women over taxed

Ahhhh....what? How?

Equal pay

That isn't a right, so...

Maternity leave/prenatal care

Already exists all over the place. If women want it all they have to do is find a place of employment that offers it.

But most important is the cultural image we put on women that I feel needs to change in the US and most religions.

What? What cultural image? Am I supposed to be getting some kind of negative view from culture about women? All I'm seeing is basically "women are better then men at everything" whenever I turn around. Is a woman half the size of the man they are beating up somehow supposed to be negative for the woman? It seems to me that image is saying men can't fight for ****, but hey, as a boxer for a decade what do I know about that.

Hawkeye10 · Jan 15, 2017

Protest Sign Ideas:

● I’d Rather Be Screaming Into the Void

● Listen to Leo: Climate Change Is Real

● MY BODY, MY CHOICE, MY INSATIABLE THIRST FOR REVENGE

● I Want Substantive Change But Will Settle for You Not Killing Us

● Rude of You to Have Made Me Come Out Here on the Weekend

● Tiffany, Blink Twice If You Need Help

● Can U Not?

● Snowflakes Are Actually Very Beautiful and Complex

● Why Are You So Obsessed With My Uterus?

● None of Us Were Rooting for You

● Mike Pence Has Never Satisfied a Woman in His Life

● If You Won’t Release Your Tax Returns, Release the Piss Play Video

● I Could Be Sleeping But You’ve Forced Me to Protest

● I’m Too Worried to Be Funny

● Ugh

15 Protest Sign Ideas for the Women’s March on Washington

Simply Charming....

CivicED · Jan 15, 2017

Henrin said:
Plenty of women are in all levels of government. Not sure what you want there.

Because they use more in healthcare services. Do you think the average thirty year old women goes to the doctor more often then the average thirty year old man? I do. Why do you think that shouldn't be reflected in what they pay?

Already exists.

Ahhhh....what? How?

That isn't a right, so...

Already exists all over the place. If women want it all they have to do is find a place of employment that offers it.

What? What cultural image? Am I supposed to be getting some kind of negative view from culture about women? All I'm seeing is basically "women are better then men at everything" whenever I turn around. Is a woman half the size of the man they are beating up somehow supposed to be negative for the woman? It seems to me that image is saying men can't fight for ****, but hey, as a boxer for a decade what do I know about that.

Thank you for expressing your opinions of all of my opinions. You have just decided to challenge every single one of them and just tell me they are wrong to you basically with no substantive journalism or legislation to begin a debate over. So I'm not being rude because I respect your opinions and I'm happy you shared them with me thank you again!

and

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Henrin · Jan 15, 2017

CivicED said:
Thank you for expressing your opinions of all of my opinions. You have just decided to challenge every single one of them and just tell me they are wrong to you basically with no substantive journalism or legislation to begin a debate over. So I'm not being rude because I respect your opinions and I'm happy you shared them with me thank you again!
and

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What kind of research do you need? A woman was the leader of the DOJ and the EPA under Obama. A woman is the chairman of the federal reserve(she is absolutely retarded though). There is women representatives in every single state. There is many representatives in congress that are women(most of them are quite old but that is not the fault of anyone). The third most powerful person in the white house under the Trump administration will be a woman and there will once again be female cabinet members under his administration. What do you want to see exactly when it comes to female representation in government?

People taking more out of the pool should provide more to the pool overall. How is it fair to charge a man that never uses the pool the same as a woman that uses it several times every single year? Why should insurance companies simply ignore how often people are using the pool?

The right to choose is already considered a right in the US and there is very little chance that will change, so I'm not sure what the point in you bringing that up was.

I'm not even sure how women are overtaxed and apparently you don't want to go into it either. Why is that?

Employment contracts are independent of each other, so how could equal pay even be a right in the first place? The right to contract doesn't somehow merit you or anyone else demanding you get the same contract as someone else.

Maternity leave/prenatal care is available in the marketplace, so again, I don't get the point in bringing that up. Are people obligated to provide women the benefits they want? If so, why?

As for the cultural image of women, well, I'm not seeing anything negative there, sorry. If anything the image of women needs to come back to planet earth and stop building itself on top of a message of **** men.

JayDubya · Jan 15, 2017

^

Indeed. It's clear these folks are marching for a big fat nothing.

CivicED · Jan 15, 2017

Henrin said:
What kind of research do you need? A woman was the leader of the DOJ and the EPA under Obama. A woman is the chairman of the federal reserve(she is absolutely retarded though). There is women representatives in every single state. There is many representatives in congress that are women(most of them are quite old but that is not the fault of anyone). The third most powerful person in the white house under the Trump administration will be a woman and there will once again be female cabinet members under his administration. What do you want to see exactly when it comes to female representation in government?

People taking more out of the pool should provide more to the pool overall. How is it fair to charge a man that never uses the pool the same as a woman that uses it several times every single year? Why should insurance companies simply ignore how often people are using the pool?

The right to choose is already considered a right in the US and there is very little chance that will change, so I'm not sure what the point in you bringing that up was.

I'm not even sure how women are overtaxed and apparently you don't want to go into it either. Why is that?

Employment contracts are independent of each other, so how could equal pay even be a right in the first place? The right to contract doesn't somehow merit you or anyone else demanding you get the same contract as someone else.

Maternity leave/prenatal care is available in the marketplace, so again, I don't get the point in bringing that up. Are people obligated to provide women the benefits they want? If so, why?

As for the cultural image of women, well, I'm not seeing anything negative there, sorry. If anything the image of women needs to come back to planet earth and stop building itself on top of a message of **** men.

I am aware of everything you said and I'm not contradicting it and saying you're wrong. And again I value your opinion on all those things and I understand that you don't see them different and why. Thank you for telling me again.

Nothing you're saying is challenging to my opinions and nothing you are saying proves what I said is an invalid opinion still to me.

As a matter of fact, your opinions on it are relatively small to the larger picture of America in my opinion and strengthening my opinions because you do not appear to have read into any of these topics very deeply it appears to me. And I say that because the issues I have posted have pretty clear arguments that you seem to have not of read because you're not attacking those key points in the common debate.

But again thank for sharing because it really helps me reaffirm my views of my stance on this!

and

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Gladiator · Jan 15, 2017

Henrin said:
What kind of research do you need? A woman was the leader of the DOJ and the EPA under Obama. A woman is the chairman of the federal reserve(she is absolutely retarded though). There is women representatives in every single state. There is many representatives in congress that are women(most of them are quite old but that is not the fault of anyone). The third most powerful person in the white house under the Trump administration will be a woman and there will once again be female cabinet members under his administration. What do you want to see exactly when it comes to female representation in government?

People taking more out of the pool should provide more to the pool overall. How is it fair to charge a man that never uses the pool the same as a woman that uses it several times every single year? Why should insurance companies simply ignore how often people are using the pool?

The right to choose is already considered a right in the US and there is very little chance that will change, so I'm not sure what the point in you bringing that up was.

I'm not even sure how women are overtaxed and apparently you don't want to go into it either. Why is that?

Employment contracts are independent of each other, so how could equal pay even be a right in the first place? The right to contract doesn't somehow merit you or anyone else demanding you get the same contract as someone else.

Maternity leave/prenatal care is available in the marketplace, so again, I don't get the point in bringing that up. Are people obligated to provide women the benefits they want? If so, why?

As for the cultural image of women, well, I'm not seeing anything negative there, sorry. If anything the image of women needs to come back to planet earth and stop building itself on top of a message of **** men.

Defunding Planned Parenthood, and lobbying for Personhood amendments are attempts to erode women's rights.

"At first glance, it's a budget bill: Ohio's Republican Gov. John Kasich signed a two-year, $62 billion state budget on June 30 that reduces state income tax by $2.6 billion. But the new budget also eliminates funding from Planned Parenthood, blocks public hospitals from arranging transfer agreements with abortion clinics and requires abortion providers to provide ultrasounds on women seeking abortions, WORLD reports. Ohio has 12 abortion facilities, and NARAL Pro-Choice Ohio said the new budget could force many clinics to close. "Today Governor Kasich enacted measures that prescribe medically unnecessary procedures, force doctors to mislead their patients and will force quality medical centers to close," said Kellie Copeland, executive director of the group. Mike Gonidakis, president of Ohio Right to Life, praised Kasich, saying it will protect women and save babies' lives. The budget went into effect July 3."

Ohio Terminates Planned Parenthood Funding With Pro-Life Budget - Christian News Headlines

National Right to Life Budget:

https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00111278

Trump has listed the judges who are likely to reverse or seriously erode Roe V Wade,

http://dailysignal.com/2017/01/13/h...short-list-for-trumps-supreme-court-nominees/

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-...of-names-of-potential-united-states-supreme-c

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JayDubya · Jan 15, 2017

Gladiator said:
Defunding Planned Parenthood, and lobbying for Personhood amendments are attempts to erode women's rights./

No they aren't.

They are efforts to criminalize abortion, which has nothing to do with "women's rights" and never will.

P.S. Women don't have special rights unique to them. This is why modern "feminists" are liars when they claim they want equality; they want special treatment - they want female supremacy.

Gladiator · Jan 15, 2017

JayDubya said:
No they aren't.

They are efforts to criminalize abortion, which has nothing to do with "women's rights" and never will.

P.S. Women don't have special rights unique to them. This is why modern "feminists" are liars when they claim they want equality; they want special treatment - they want female supremacy.

What should be the Father's/husband's role, responsibility and privilege?

So apparently, anyone who does not agree that abortion is murder, should attend one of the Women's Marches, 1/21/17.

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JayDubya · Jan 15, 2017

Gladiator said:
What should be the Father's/husband's role, responsibility and privilege?

Pre-birth? A father should ideally be taking the mother to OBGYN appointments and otherwise helping and supporting his partner and paying his share of any expense incurred. It takes two to tango, as it were.

Gladiator · Jan 16, 2017

JayDubya said:
Pre-birth? A father should ideally be taking the mother to OBGYN appointments and otherwise helping and supporting his partner and paying his share of any expense incurred. It takes two to tango, as it were.

What about women who feel that adoption is immoral? How many men can provide a financial responsibility bond, to raise the child? What if the mother has maternal instincts? What about women who feel that it is their duty to raise the child, if comes to birth? Where can a man get a financial responsibility bond for $ 500,00.00 if the child is healthy, and up to $2,000,000.00 if the child is disabled? Where can a man get such a bond? How many men can afford this bond? How many men have offered such a bond to a pregnant woman?

It is the men in the US that are asking for, and often receiving a free ride, or government subsidized benefits. Not the women asking for luxury freebies. Many women in the US are sacrificing for their children.

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Gladiator · Jan 23, 2017

Maybe 500,000 came to rally. Metro had to stop accepting riders at end of line stations, due to crowded platforms and trains.

Here is a Link to a Breaking News, Mainstream media thread on the Women's March on Washington, and other cities..

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...s-protest-presidency-celeb-studded-march.html

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tosca1 · Jan 23, 2017

Gladiator said:
Marching is for when Voting, isn't working. When is a better date for a Women's March on Washington?

Voting is working. It's just that the winner isn't the one they wanted to win.

Oh well....let them march....... and get it out of their system.

1/21/17 Women's March on Washington

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