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Planned Parenthood sued

year2late said:
Just because you can, does not mean you should.

May I ask, what do you think Planned Parenthood could have done to prevent this type of attack?

Or the theater.
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Planned Parenthood and other abortion clinics have been targets across the country. Throwing your hands up in the air and saying there is nothing that can be done to prevent these kind of attacks is a great give up tactic. The fact is that there are many things that can be done. Not just additional security but safety warnings to visitors coming to their abortion mills. Let people know that there have been attacks on other facilities and that there may be a danger in visiting this facility because they opt to not provide armed security.

As for Aurora's theater, they chose to make the facility a gun free zone. That left the patrons unable to defend themselves. When the attack happened, they were sitting ducks.
 
year2late said:
Maybe Planned Parenthood was wearing a short skirt and deserved the attack.
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Although you meant it fasciciously, you are pretty much correct. They set themselves up as a target by choosing to perform abortions, then took no security precautions to protect those visiting. Now, they have to convince a jury not to award damages.
 
Bucky said:
Colorado Planned Parenthood shooting victims file suit - CNN.com

:bravo:

I pray for the Stewart and Wagner family. I hope this lawsuit brings some sort of closure. It is about time we go after PP. These clinics are unsafe, foster a dangerous environment and lead to more violence in areas near a clinic.

These clinics have caused so much death, I am glad these families are going after such a evil organization. Arsons, terrorist attacks, bomb threats, when will the violence end?
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"[Planned Parenthood] of Colorado provided little or no security at the [clinic], such as an armed guard and perimeter fencing, as they do in other clinics. It provided no signs, posters, verbal or any other type of warning," the lawsuit said.
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What signs do they want posted? "Mentally Ill-prolife terrorists prohibited!!"

Do you want each and every patient patted down or strip searched.

What level of security do you think it would take to prevent an armed mentally ill terrorist from killing people.

Do you want cars searched?

Do you think it is just as possible....even with security and perimeter fence ...that the mentally ill armed individual could have just picked groups of them off as they were leaving?

What is it that you would be sufficient.
 
year2late said:
What signs do they want posted? "Mentally Ill-prolife terrorists prohibited!!"

Do you want each and every patient patted down or strip searched.

What level of security do you think it would take to prevent an armed mentally ill terrorist from killing people.

Do you want cars searched?

Do you think it is just as possible....even with security and perimeter fence ...that the mentally ill armed individual could have just picked groups of them off as they were leaving?

What is it that you would be sufficient.
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They aren't obligated to do any of those things. However, the results of not doing them is that they get to hope like hell a jury of their peers decides not to award civil damages.
 
Southern Dad said:
Although you meant it fasciciously, you are pretty much correct. They set themselves up as a target by choosing to perform abortions, then took no security precautions to protect those visiting. Now, they have to convince a jury not to award damages.
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I have asked this a number of times already....what security precautions do you think would have prevented a mentally ill armed terrorist from attacking and killing people?

For a law suit to be successful, I would think there would have to be reasonable options.
 
year2late said:
I have asked this a number of times already....what security precautions do you think would have prevented a mentally ill armed terrorist from attacking and killing people?

For a law suit to be successful, I would think there would have to be reasonable options.
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And you can ask it a hundred more. I am not obligated to answer your question. They opted to take no security measures now they get to spend a fortune on legal fees defending their actions in a courtroom before a civil jury. If the jury decides that their callous attitude toward this threat resulted in these injuries or deaths, then they will be writing a check. Isn't that grand? It's our system.

I wonder if those additional security measures or warnings would have cost less than the defense attorneys and judgement?
 
Southern Dad said:
They aren't obligated to do any of those things. However, the results of not doing them is that they get to hope like hell a jury of their peers decides not to award civil damages.
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What things could PP have done to prevent the tragedy?

All that he would need to do is lie in wait outside and pick people off. He would be able to kill a few and harm many others before the security guard (or armed civilian could) could put him down
 
year2late said:
What things could PP have done to prevent the tragedy?

All that he would need to do is lie in wait outside and pick people off. He would be able to kill a few and harm many others before the security guard (or armed civilian could) could put him down
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Okay, so it is your opinion that there was nothing that could be done? That they were absolutely helpless. That abortion mills like Planned Parenthood are inherently dangerous places that cannot protect their clients and other visitors. Nothing, nada, zip. Maybe a jury will buy it. Either way, it is going to cost them a small fortune in attorney fees to defend themselves in this lawsuit.
 
Southern Dad said:
Okay, so it is your opinion that there was nothing that could be done? That they were absolutely helpless. That abortion mills like Planned Parenthood are inherently dangerous places that cannot protect their clients and other visitors. Nothing, nada, zip. Maybe a jury will buy it. Either way, it is going to cost them a small fortune in attorney fees to defend themselves in this lawsuit.
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I do not see anything REASONABLE that would have stopped a mentally ill armed prolife zealot from killing people. The question is where.inside the perimeter of the fence...or right outside.

The question is how do you prevent mentally ill people from accessing guns .
 
jmotivator said:
How many of those kids would you euthanize to end their pain?
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NONE! False Dilemma.

That's because they are viable Human Beings, persons protected by those amendments mentioned in the OP, as well as the laws of the land.

At some point during the development of an embryo, it becomes a person and should be protected. That does not occur at inception. :no:
 
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Southern Dad said:
Okay, so it is your opinion that there was nothing that could be done? That they were absolutely helpless. That abortion mills like Planned Parenthood are inherently dangerous places that cannot protect their clients and other visitors. Nothing, nada, zip. Maybe a jury will buy it. Either way, it is going to cost them a small fortune in attorney fees to defend themselves in this lawsuit.
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I do not see anything that would have prevented a tragedy of some sort. A mentally ill armed pro-life zealot sneaking up and aiming and shooting would have happened in an instant. If he had automatic weapons he would not need much time to wreak great havoc.
 
Captain Adverse said:
NONE! False Dilemma.

That's because they are viable Human Beings, persons protected by those amendments mentioned in the OP, as well as the laws of the land.

At some point during the development of an embryo, it becomes a person and should be protected. That does not occur at inception. :no:
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That is the point, though, since your argument is simply begging the question. If you believe that the child is a human being in the womb back to inception then your argument about their life after birth is pretty stupid because you suggest death is a viable alternative to an orphanage.

If you want to make an argument for when a human is actually a human then make it.
 
year2late said:
I do not see anything REASONABLE that would have stopped a mentally ill armed prolife zealot from killing people. The question is where.inside the perimeter of the fence...or right outside.

The question is how do you prevent mentally ill people from accessing guns .
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Maybe the jury will agree with your position but I am betting the Planned Parenthood settles with the victims for an undisclosed but large amount of money.
 
year2late said:
I do not see anything that would have prevented a tragedy of some sort. A mentally ill armed pro-life zealot sneaking up and aiming and shooting would have happened in an instant. If he had automatic weapons he would not need much time to wreak great havoc.
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Of course, you don't. It's Planned Parenthood. They can do no wrong in your eyes. Let's see what the jury says...
 
Southern Dad said:
Maybe the jury will agree with your position but I am betting the Planned Parenthood settles with the victims for an undisclosed but large amount of money.
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And they should not.
 
Southern Dad said:
Of course, you don't. It's Planned Parenthood. They can do no wrong in your eyes. Let's see what the jury says...
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Seriously,what could PP done to prevent this tragedy? Reasonably if a mentally ill person with a gun wants to kill you = not much.
 
jmotivator said:
That is the point, though, since your argument is simply begging the question. If you believe that the child is a human being in the womb back to inception then your argument about their life after birth is pretty stupid because you suggest death is a viable alternative to an orphanage.

If you want to make an argument for when a human is actually a human then make it.
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What? I am not making an argument that the "child is a human being back to inception." Quite the contrary.

There is no "child" at inception, only the potential for one; as proven by the high percentages of natural miscarriages without human-assisted abortions.

I have already made the argument in other threads about when it is most likely that a developing fetus becomes a Human being (person) rather than just a group of developing Human cells.

Just do a search of my posts in the Abortion forum. :shrug:
 
year2late said:
I do not see anything that would have prevented a tragedy of some sort. A mentally ill armed pro-life zealot sneaking up and aiming and shooting would have happened if in an instant. If he had automatic weapons he would not need much time to wreak great havoc.
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If I was shopping at Wal-Mart and slipped and fell, causing damage, I would have a right to sue Wal-Mart. Whether it is actually Wal-Mart's fault is irrelevant.

A shooting happened inside Planned Parenthood, these family members have every right to sue PP. Why are you lefties choosing the side of a million dollar organization over these low-middle class families that are just trying to find some sort of closure in this tragedy?

meh. The left, the party of the everyday person.... give me a break.
 
year2late said:
Seriously,what could PP done to prevent this tragedy? Reasonably if a mentally ill person with a gun wants to kill you = not much.
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You aren't stupid. You know that Planned Parenthood could have taken security measures to protect their clients. Armed Security, solid fencing, there are many things that could have been done. They could have had warnings to people using their services that there is a danger. Would those things have cost money? Yes. Could warnings hurt their business? Yes. The fact is that they took no steps to protect their clients even though there have been incidents at other abortion mills across the country. It wasn't important to them. They played the odds. Now, they get to spend a bunch of money on attorneys defending themselves and if they lose they get to pay settlements. Isn't our system grand?
 
Bucky said:
If I was shopping at Wal-Mart and slipped and fell, causing damage, I would have a right to sue Wal-Mart. Whether it is actually Wal-Mart's fault is irrelevant.

A shooting happened inside Planned Parenthood, these family members have every right to sue PP. Why are you lefties choosing the side of a million dollar organization over these low-middle class families that are just trying to find some sort of closure in this tragedy?

meh. The left, the party of the everyday person.... give me a break.
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Exactly. This happened on their property. They get to be the respondent.
 
Bucky said:
If I was shopping at Wal-Mart and slipped and fell, causing damage, I would have a right to sue Wal-Mart. Whether it is actually Wal-Mart's fault is irrelevant.

A shooting happened inside Planned Parenthood, these family members have every right to sue PP. Why are you lefties choosing the side of a million dollar organization over these low-middle class families that are just trying to find some sort of closure in this tragedy?

meh. The left, the party of the everyday person.... give me a break.
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Planned Parenthood has no control over mentally unstable prolife terrorists.

In my mind, Planned Parenthood is going to spend large amounts of money defending against something they have no control over....that money is needed to help women (and men for that matter) to get health care, By the way, since abortions are already paid for...it is taking money away from sliding scale/free services such as cancer screening and treatment of precancers, HIV screening and counselling, abortion prevention (birth control), general health exams and screenings, STD treatments,etc.

Yeah anybody can sue anybody for anything. But it is pure idiocy to think any reasonable precautions would have stopped a mentally ill gun toting pro-life terrorist from killing people. If there was a fence around the perimeter and they did complete searches of anyone coming in.....all that the same terrorist would need to do is lie in wait outside the fence.

There is a theater I go to that has a lot of security in the evening. So my purse gets searched every time I go in (thank God they do not confiscate the three mandarin oranges I carry in my purse). Do you think this protects the theater? Hell no. It makes people believe they are doing something.
 
Bucky said:
If I was shopping at Wal-Mart and slipped and fell, causing damage, I would have a right to sue Wal-Mart. Whether it is actually Wal-Mart's fault is irrelevant.

A shooting happened inside Planned Parenthood, these family members have every right to sue PP. Why are you lefties choosing the side of a million dollar organization over these low-middle class families that are just trying to find some sort of closure in this tragedy?

meh. The left, the party of the everyday person.... give me a break.
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1. "The left" is not a party.
2. The lawsuit is not unexpected, but let's let the courts decide its merit, shall we?
3. You outright blamed PP for the shooting, not because of security, but because you disagree with some of what happens in there. Don't piss on my leg and try to tell me it's raining. You like this because you don't like abortion and despise PP, not because you're seeking any sort of justice for those that a RIGHT-WING EXTREMIST shot.

If disingenuousness had a name, it would be Bucky.
 
year2late said:
Planned Parenthood has no control over mentally unstable prolife terrorists.

In my mind, Planned Parenthood is going to spend large amounts of money defending against something they have no control over....that money is needed to help women (and men for that matter) to get health care, By the way, since abortions are already paid for...it is taking money away from sliding scale/free services such as cancer screening and treatment of precancers, HIV screening and counselling, abortion prevention (birth control), general health exams and screenings, STD treatments,etc.

Yeah anybody can sue anybody for anything. But it is pure idiocy to think any reasonable precautions would have stopped a mentally ill gun toting pro-life terrorist from killing people. If there was a fence around the perimeter and they did complete searches of anyone coming in.....all that the same terrorist would need to do is lie in wait outside the fence.

There is a theater I go to that has a lot of security in the evening. So my purse gets searched every time I go in (thank God they do not confiscate the three mandarin oranges I carry in my purse). Do you think this protects the theater? Hell no. It makes people believe they are doing something.
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Bucky demands that PP basically militarize itself ... and then he'd complain when they did it.
 
Southern Dad said:
You aren't stupid. You know that Planned Parenthood could have taken security measures to protect their clients. Armed Security, solid fencing, there are many things that could have been done. They could have had warnings to people using their services that there is a danger. Would those things have cost money? Yes. Could warnings hurt their business? Yes. The fact is that they took no steps to protect their clients even though there have been incidents at other abortion mills across the country. It wasn't important to them. They played the odds. Now, they get to spend a bunch of money on attorneys defending themselves and if they lose they get to pay settlements. Isn't our system grand?
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A solid wall? Ok, so are you saying strip searches as well? It would take more than a wall.

And warning patrons? Of what? That a mentally ill pro-life terrorist might appear out of nowhere? WTF?

Do they have these warnings outside of shopping malls or movie theaters?
 
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