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Abortion Dress

calamity said:
I guess I'd need to see proof on the "contraception failed," because I don't know of anyone ever who took the pill properly or had an IUD inserted that ended up pregnant.

Now do people forget to take the pill or use condoms only sporadically? Yes. Does a rubber occasionally break? Sure. But I seriously doubt most unintended pregnancies result from people correctly using BC and somehow winding up pregnant because the BC itself failed.
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65 percent of US women of child bearing years use birth control consistently and correctly.

I know women who were on the pill and still ended up pregnant.
Most pills are less than 98 percent effective.
Which means that out 100 couples who use the pill , two of those women will become pregnant in a years time.

In fact years ago my sister in law had tuble ligation after her third child and ended up pregnant with number 4 a few years later.
 
minnie616 said:
65 percent of US women of child bearing years use birth control consistently and correctly.

I know women who were on the pill and still ended up pregnant.
Most pills are less than 98 percent effective.
Which means that out 100 couples who use the pill , two of those women will become pregnant in a years time.

In fact years ago my sister in law had tuble ligation after her third child and ended up pregnant with number 4 a few years later.
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Can't say I've had that issue come up with uncountable experiences with women on the pill, IUD, tubal ligations or my current vasectomy. So...not sure I'm buying.

By the way, your stats are whacked. The pill is 99.9% effective, when used correctly.

But to be fully effective, birth control pills need to be taken correctly. Missing even a few doses greatly increases your chances of pregnancy: while only 0.1 percent of women get pregnant when using the pill properly, pregnancy rates soar by 30-80 times when pills are missed

https://www.arhp.org/Publications-a...esources/fact-sheets/Successful-Contraception
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calamity said:
Can't say I've had that issue come up with uncountable experiences with women on the pill, IUD, tubal ligations or my current vasectomy. So...not sure I'm buying.

By the way, your stats are whacked. The pill is 99.9% effective, when used correctly.
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Perhaps I need to introduce you my nephew whose mom had the tubal a few years before she became pg with him.

Typical use of birth control pills less than 6 women will become pregnant in a years time.

Perfect use less than 1 woman will become pregnant in a year time.

Contraception: Success and Failure Rates of Contraceptives | Center for Young Women's Health

Not all types are birth control pills are right for all women.
Some need need the cobo pill and others are fine just using the progesterone only pill.
 
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minnie616 said:
Typical use of birth control pills less than 6 women will become pregnant in a years time.

Perfect use less than 1 woman will become pregnant in a year time.

Contraception: Success and Failure Rates of Contraceptives | Center for Young Women's Health

Not all types are birth control pills are right for all women.
Some need need the cobo pill and others are fine just using the progesterone only pill.
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Sure. And, some women simply cannot use the pill for various reasons. But, that's not the point of the current argument: effectiveness of BC, if used correctly.

Smoke came up with some ass-pulled-out BS about most abortions resulting from those who have correctly used BC. Pure nonsense.
 
calamity said:
Sure. And, some women simply cannot use the pill for various reasons. But, that's not the point of the current argument: effectiveness of BC, if used correctly.

Smoke came up with some ass-pulled-out BS about most abortions resulting from those who have correctly used BC. Pure nonsense.
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When you consider that 65 percent of US do use birth control consistently and correctly the number of those on the pill or using male condoms ( that's the one with 98 percent effective , 2 percent failure rate ) the numbers of failures overall will still be quite high.( probably not most but still way too high) .
Which is why long term birth control that has less than .2 percent failure rate ( less than 2 in 1,000 women will become pregnant within the year) is the future of reducing abortion numbers even more.

Between the years 2008 and 2011 the abortion rate fell more than 13 percent mostly because more women were using long term birth control.

BTW: the number of abortion clinics only fell by 1 percent during those years.
 
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minnie616 said:
When you consider that 65 percent of US do use birth control consistently and correctly the number of those on the pill or using male condoms ( that's the one with 98 percent effective , 2 percent failure rate ) the numbers of failures overall will still be quite high.( probably not most but still way too high) .
Which is why long term birth control that has less than .02 percent failure rate ( less than 2 in 10,000 women will become pregnant within the year) is the future of reducing abortion numbers even more.

Between the years 2008 and 2011 the abortion rate fell more than 13 percent mostly because more women were using long term birth control.

BTW: the number of abortion clinics only fell by 1 percent during those years.
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Most abortions would be coming from that 35% who do not use BC. I don't see this as disputable.

birth_control_methods_getting_pregnant.png
 
calamity said:
Sure. And, some women simply cannot use the pill for various reasons. But, that's not the point of the current argument: effectiveness of BC, if used correctly.

Smoke came up with some ass-pulled-out BS about most abortions resulting from those who have correctly used BC. Pure nonsense.
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Here is a Snip from an article written by a doctor about IUD and pregnancy:

An intrauterine device, or IUD, is one of the most popular and effective forms of birth control -- and it's rare to become pregnant while using one. "The IUD has a 99.7 percent efficacy rate," says Lanalee Araba Sam, M.D., an ob-gyn in Ft. Lauderdale. "Very, very few women with one will become pregnant. But I always tell my patients that someone on this planet is that one-in-a-million exception. There are instances where someone becomes pregnant with an IUD in place."
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Pregnancy With an IUD: Is It Possible?
 
calamity said:
Most abortions would be coming from that 35% who do not use BC. I don't see this as disputable.
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And most childbirths will come from those not using BC.
Because when a couple wishes to become pregnant or when the woman is already pregnant she won't use birth control.
Also if the woman had a tubal or her husband/ lover had a vasectomy artificial BC will no longer be used.
 
minnie616 said:
And most childbirths will come from those not using BC.
Because when a couple wishes to become pregnant or when the woman is already pregnant she won't use birth control.
Also if the woman had a tubal or her husband/ lover had a vasectomy artificial BC will no longer be used.
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The Tubal or the vasectomy is the BC.
 
calamity said:
Sure, and someone wins that $300M powerball too. But, not most of us. Smoke blew smoke up our ass. She needs to own it.
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I never made that claim.
I claimed that I knew women who were using the pill and got pregnant and that sister in law had a pregnancy after a tubal.
 
minnie616 said:
I never made that claim.
I claimed that I knew women who were using the pill and got pregnant and that sister in law had a pregnancy after a tubal.
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I didn't say you did. Smoke & Mirrors did.
 
calamity said:
The Tubal or the vasectomy is the BC.
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Sorry, I was talking about non permanent birth control when I stated 65 percent of US women used ( should have inserted artificial ) birth control consistently and correctly.

Tubal's and vasectomy are considered permanent even though they have .05 percent failure rate.

The Royal College of Obstetricians & Gynecologists report a 1 in 2000 (.05 percent) chance of a pregnancy resulting from vasectomy failure.
 
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minnie616 said:
Sorry, I was talking about non permanent birth control when I stated 65 percent of US women used ( should have inserted artificial ) birth control consistently and correctly.

Tubal's and vasectomy are considered permanent even though they have .05 percent failure rate.

The Royal College of Obstetricians & Gynecologists report a 1 in 2000 (.05 percent) chance of a pregnancy resulting from vasectomy failure.
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That's nice. Maybe Smoke and Mirrors should read this before she makes an ass out of herself again.
 
calamity said:
That's nice. Maybe Smoke and Mirrors should read this before she makes an ass out of herself again.
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When you think of how many thousands of women or thousands of men had Tubal's/ or a vasectomy and consider that 1 in every 2000 couples will find out the woman became pregnant that is still a startling stat especially for the couple who thought they no longer needed to fear an unwanted pregnancy. In fact 11 percent of men choose to have a vasectomy when they wish to have no children or have no more children.

I can't find the percentage of women who have Tubal's but I did find this:

A team of researchers estimated Monday that as many as 9.6 percent of women could become pregnant within 10 years of undergoing hysteroscopic sterilization, or Essure. That is nearly four times the estimated risk after a laparoscopic tubal ligation, the more traditional method.

The study, published in the journal Contraception, is the first to compare the effectiveness of the two main choices offered to women who seek a permanent form of birth control. About 345,000 American women undergo sterilization procedures each year, with Essure an increasingly popular choice because it does not require a surgical incision.
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Essure less effective than tubal ligation: study - tribunedigital-chicagotribune
 
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minnie616 said:
When you think of how many thousands of women or thousands of men had Tubal's/ or a vasectomy and consider that 1 in every 2000 couples will find out the woman became pregnant that is still a startling stat especially for the couple who thought they no longer needed to fear an unwanted pregnancy. In fact 11 percent of men choose to have a vasectomy when they wish to have no children or have no more children.

I can't find the percentage of women who have Tubal's but I did find this:



Essure less effective than tubal ligation: study - tribunedigital-chicagotribune
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That's all well and good information, but not relevant to Smoke And Mirror's nonsensical assertion.


She said most abortions are the result of failed contraception. This was clearly a false assertion.

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Yeah, except you feel immediately better afterwards. Also, the consequences of a broken leg are far less serious than those of badly timed parenthood.

I've been happy after minor surgery (though abortion is comparitively even more minor than that was). Good to have it behind you.

By the by, you are aware that contraception sometimes fails, and that is what happened to most women who abort, right?
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Ntharotep said:
I wonder if a father who decided not to follow "that path of life" and wore a shirt that said "❤ Not Paying Child Support ❤" would get the same respect and kudos...
I'm still an abortion I a last resort kinda guy but that's just me.
I can't imagine the fun myself. It seems a bit like wearing "❤ Root Canal ❤"
BUT, people can express themselves any way they want. ❤ Free Speech ❤
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To the bolded:

Great point!

But in all honesty, I suspect the abortion celebration dress is only playing well in a relatively small minority of the citizenry.

I'm sure there's a lot of citizens that are willing to accept abortion as a necessity, but don't think it's a desirable or celebratory procedure. And then there's the huge section of the country that is simply anti-abortion. So I really don't think these dresses are going to be highly popular in the general public at large. I live in an extremely large, diverse, and often progressive northern (U.S.) city, and have yet to see one of these dresses or t-shirts. But who knows, odder fads have occurred.
 
Chomsky said:
To the bolded:

Great point!

But in all honesty, I suspect the abortion celebration dress is only playing well in a relatively small minority of the citizenry.

I'm sure there's a lot of citizens that are willing to accept abortion as a necessity, but don't think it's a desirable or celebratory procedure. And then there's the huge section of the country that is simply anti-abortion. So I really don't think these dresses are going to be highly popular in the general public at large. I live in an extremely large, diverse, and often progressive northern (U.S.) city, and have yet to see one of these dresses or t-shirts. But who knows, odder fads have occurred.
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I doubt this is a fad breaking like a wave across the country. Above I noted the drink in her left hand, but not the glaze in her eyes. This woman's elevator is not going all the way to the top right now
 
This is what happens when you try to shame people for practicing thier rights. Id bet the bank that without shaming this never happens lol
Seen it with many other things in history. Wrongly shame people and eventually they celebrate what you are trying to shame them for, and its mostly to piss the people off that are trying to shame them LOL
 
AGENT J said:
This is what happens when you try to shame people for practicing thier rights. Id bet the bank that without shaming this never happens lol
Seen it with many other things in history. Wrongly shame people and eventually they celebrate what you are trying to shame them for, and its mostly to piss the people off that are trying to shame them LOL
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I definitely see it as a troll dress. A good one too, since it is driving the Righties mad over on the RW websites.
 
Fearandloathing said:
I doubt this is a fad breaking like a wave across the country. Above I noted the drink in her left hand, but not the glaze in her eyes. This woman's elevator is not going all the way to the top right now
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I'm a student of Mr. Barnum, F & L, and I never underestimate the American people!

But concerning her pictures there, once anything gets out on the net, it's with us for posterity now. I warn my kids of this all the time, and they listened. Thankfully.

But I am indeed open-minded enough to say there's always the possibility through the lens of historical perspective, that she is seen as a pioneer to be heralded. Odder things have happened, as further decades give us perspective. There's been many mores throughout history that were completely and homogeneously supported by a given society, only to eventually break-down as society came to a different level of acceptance and understanding.

But of all the societal debates, I think this one (abortion) is going to be amongst the most difficult to resolve.
 
calamity said:
I guess I'd need to see proof on the "contraception failed," because I don't know of anyone ever who took the pill properly or had an IUD inserted that ended up pregnant.
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Oh, I do. I went to school (post secondary) with a woman who conceived 3 times on the pill. Each time, her doctor switched her to a different one.
 
celebrating abortion is pretty damned twisted, no matter what side of the issue you fall on.
 
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