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Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Abortion Laws

OpportunityCost said:
I don't know, we have come so far in pre natal care even that has come into doubt.
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Care does not alter development. Sufficient development has to be achieved in order for the fetus to survive on its own without the aid of technology.

Finding a way to see or measure awareness is I suppose what I would lean towards.
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That is not an unreasonable point, however, at least for now, it is impossible to determine. Moreover, the point of development where survival is possible without outside aid occurs sooner than awareness and that should be more palatable to some who are not ideologically opposed to abortion.
 
prometeus said:
Care does not alter development. Sufficient development has to be achieved in order for the fetus to survive on its own without the aid of technology.

That is not an unreasonable point, however, at least for now, it is impossible to determine. Moreover, the point of development where survival is possible without outside aid occurs sooner than awareness and that should be more palatable to some who are not ideologically opposed to abortion.
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Like I said, I dislike abortion threads, I have no concrete evidence, its just what I believe and think and I cant speak with the conviction I have on some other things. There is a gray color ingrained into the morality of the issue. I don't claim to be an authority but at some point we are taking a life we shouldn't. Finding that line is going to become harder the longer politics is there to weigh in versus the science.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Like I said, I dislike abortion threads, I have no concrete evidence, its just what I believe and think and I cant speak with the conviction I have on some other things. There is a gray color ingrained into the morality of the issue. I don't claim to be an authority but at some point we are taking a life we shouldn't. Finding that line is going to become harder the longer politics is there to weigh in versus the science.
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Look how HONEST this post is . .. look how CIVIL this post is. in general whether one agrees with it or not this is a good example of how to post when not dealing with "nutters" but NORMAL posters. No claims of "my opinion is fact" or lies posted as fact just a conversation. Good post OpportunityCost.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Like I said, I dislike abortion threads, I have no concrete evidence, its just what I believe and think and I cant speak with the conviction I have on some other things. There is a gray color ingrained into the morality of the issue. I don't claim to be an authority but at some point we are taking a life we shouldn't. Finding that line is going to become harder the longer politics is there to weigh in versus the science.
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I appreciate your straight forward honesty, no one cold ask for more.
I also wonder why is there such a radical difference between this approach an the one in the other thread where we disagreed.
 
prometeus said:
I appreciate your straight forward honesty, no one cold ask for more.
I also wonder why is there such a radical difference between this approach an the one in the other thread where we disagreed.
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I will quote some of your previous responses to me and you will probably be able to tell the difference right away. Keep in mind this is regarding Obama's voting record and stance on abortion. This isn't opinion, its basic facts.

You should read the the text instead of relying on partisan talking points. Truth can be interesting.
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So you are sticking with partisan talking points. I suspected as much.
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Quite noble of you to confirm it.
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you actually lifted part of my quote out of context for this one, classy.

Point is, I am not sure about abortion but I KNOW how Obama voted on it. There is no partisanship or talking points because I don't follow the abortion issue closely enough to know what they are! You assumed and you were wrong. You come at me with the horns out, don't be surprised if you catch a sword after a cape flourish, el Toro!
 
OpportunityCost said:
I will quote some of your previous responses to me and you will probably be able to tell the difference right away. Keep in mind this is regarding Obama's voting record and stance on abortion. This isn't opinion, its basic facts.



you actually lifted part of my quote out of context for this one, classy.

Point is, I am not sure about abortion but I KNOW how Obama voted on it. There is no partisanship or talking points because I don't follow the abortion issue closely enough to know what they are! You assumed and you were wrong. You come at me with the horns out, don't be surprised if you catch a sword after a cape flourish, el Toro!
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Perhaps not die to partisanship, but you did mis the point. Those votes were not so because Obama is for partial birth abortions although he is clearly pro-choice. The proposed legislation was way too vague to be of any real use.
 
prometeus said:
Perhaps not die to partisanship, but you did mis the point. Those votes were not so because Obama is for partial birth abortions although he is clearly pro-choice. The proposed legislation was way too vague to be of any real use.
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You missed the larger point. He has never voted against abortion, he has never seen a limitation he supported. That is fact.

What was silly was that I couldn't even state his positions and not get labeled as using partisan talking points when those are matters of record. I wasn't being partisan. I was stating what IS.
 
OpportunityCost said:
You missed the larger point.
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There was / is no larger point.

He has never voted against abortion
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Why would he, he is pro-choice?

he has never seen a limitation he supported.
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On how many occasions did he have to vote and what were the specific legislations? As I explained the opposition was against vague meaningless, feel good laws that were a waste of taxpayer money and legislative effort.

What was silly was that I couldn't even state his positions and not get labeled as using partisan talking points when those are matters of record. I wasn't being partisan. I was stating what IS.
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With a very broad brush that blotted out reality.
 
prometeus said:
There was / is no larger point.

Why would he, he is pro-choice?

On how many occasions did he have to vote and what were the specific legislations? As I explained the opposition was against vague meaningless, feel good laws that were a waste of taxpayer money and legislative effort.

With a very broad brush that blotted out reality.
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Barack Obama on the Issues

We are done. Gather your own data.

The larger point is your need to defend your position and by extension Barack Obama is go great that you need to label anyone as partisan that speaks the truth about his positions and voting records.

The truth is not partisan, it is what it is.
 
OpportunityCost said:
I hate the abortion issue. At some point, a fetus becomes a human being. The only question is when.

That should be the consideration, but I sure don't know the answer.
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You ought to look to what the embryologists have to say since this is what they specialize in. All the books I read from them and there statements already concluded that a humans life starts once it's a zygote. There is not one point during its development where it magically becomes a human. It either is from the zygote stage or it never is.
 
GEIxBattleRifle said:
You ought to look to what the embryologists have to say since this is what they specialize in. All the books I read from them and there statements already concluded that a humans life starts once it's a zygote. There is not one point during its development where it magically becomes a human.
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There is a reason I wont go into the abortion forum. Its like firing a gun inside a bulletproof box, no thanks.
 
OpportunityCost said:
There is a reason I wont go into the abortion forum. Its like firing a gun inside a bulletproof box, no thanks.
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You don't need to go into the abortion forum to answer the question "When does a human exists." I'm only pointing to where you can look if you ever become interested in answering that question.
 
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