• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after year'

Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Fearandloathing said:
Wow, Carly made a mistake


I wonder, I bet this forum would be ten times busier if we posted everything said wrong by Hillary.
\
\
Click to expand...
But this is not about Hillary but the ignorance of Fiorina. Care to offer a better excuse?
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Lursa said:
LOL Tell that to China and India.

And how is it different from all those immigrating into the US (legally or not) and those being born here? Are the immigrants not part of the population? Yet, seemingly, there seem to be many objections to those new people adding to the population...certainly in terms of 'wealth expansion and prosperity.' I mean, why arent we welcoming them with open arms if that's what 'more people' means?
Click to expand...

Birth rates in the third world are decreasing and if that trend continues immigration will not be able to keep the population from decreasing.

As for China and India, that is a red herring. China's economy improved by leaving behind failed systems and manipulating their currency. India is bit of a falsity on your part and there is considerable challenges facing them going forward both in industry and in their very low literacy rates.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Henrin said:
If women weren't getting pregnant less I bet the number of abortions would around the same. Women's views towards abortion hasn't improved at all and I see no indication they are less likely to abort.

The left calls a lower reproduction due to birth control progress, but I consider it standing still.
Click to expand...

Never mind the fact that women are actually shifting their ideas about abortion to a pro-life viewpoint, you seem to be complaining that birth control in the forms of pills and condoms are doing their job. We should be happy that people who don't want to be getting pregnant are not getting pregnant. This is fact drives down abortions that the right cry about so much. Abortions are being lowered, this is good for everyone, not just those that hold a political view one way or the other. More birth control and education prevent more unwanted pregnancies which in turn lowers abortions.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Henrin said:
Birth rates in the third world are decreasing and if that trend continues immigration will not be able to keep the population from decreasing.

As for China and India, that is a red herring. China's economy improved by leaving behind failed systems and manipulating their currency. India is bit of a falsity on your part and there is considerable challenges facing them going forward both in industry and in their very low literacy rates.
Click to expand...

Er, no falsity in the population examples of China or India....population is a factor in the conditions of those countries.

Now, when are you providing the actual replacement number data for humans so we can determine what is the concern, if any, 'in reality?' And why you believe that groups of people will stop having children?
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

ajn678 said:
Never mind the fact that women are actually shifting their ideas about abortion to a pro-life viewpoint, you seem to be complaining that birth control in the forms of pills and condoms are doing their job. We should be happy that people who don't want to be getting pregnant are not getting pregnant. This is fact drives down abortions that the right cry about so much. Abortions are being lowered, this is good for everyone, not just those that hold a political view one way or the other. More birth control and education prevent more unwanted pregnancies which in turn lowers abortions.
Click to expand...

No abortion and no birth control :doh . It seems he doesnt want women to have choices in reproduction at all. Kinda like the Soup Nazi of reproduction, "No sex for you!" lol
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Lursa said:
No abortion and no birth control :doh . It seems he doesnt want women to have choices in reproduction at all. Kinda like the Soup Nazi of reproduction, "No sex for you!" lol
Click to expand...

I believe that this viewpoint, which is the same as many right wingers, is that women having sex outside of marriage especially is bad. They seem to believe people that are married don't have abortions or use birth control. They also believe women are second class citizens and should have no right to decide if her body is used to house the offspring of a mighty man.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

ajn678 said:
Never mind the fact that women are actually shifting their ideas about abortion to a pro-life viewpoint, you seem to be complaining that birth control in the forms of pills and condoms are doing their job. We should be happy that people who don't want to be getting pregnant are not getting pregnant. This is fact drives down abortions that the right cry about so much. Abortions are being lowered, this is good for everyone, not just those that hold a political view one way or the other. More birth control and education prevent more unwanted pregnancies which in turn lowers abortions.
Click to expand...

It's a six point move since the start of the century. The average over more than a decade and a half since is 45% with barely any movement outside of a few years near 50% at the end of last decade. All of this means that the number of pro-life women has moved from forty to forty six percent. Considering that pro-life women do elect to abort these numbers do not represent respect for life.
 
Last edited:
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Henrin said:
It's a six point move since the start of the century. The average over more than a decade and a half since is 45% with barely any movement outside of a few years near 50% at the end of last decade. All of this means that the number of pro-life women has moved from forty to forty six percent. Considering that pro-life women do elect to abort these numbers do not represent respect for life.
Click to expand...

I fail to see what your point is in this issue. You seem to be complaining that women are having less abortions due to birth control. Then you complain that because people shifted only 6 percent in favor of pro-life positions it isn't enough. You then complain that our birth rates need to stay at extremely high levels that we as the United States cannot even continue to afford. You state respect for life, yet your party tends to only respect life that is middle class and white. I would believe your want to respect life if you attempted to respect the lives of poor, minorities that are born and alive instead of only looking to protect the dignity and rights of beings that are not born.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

ajn678 said:
I believe that this viewpoint, which is the same as many right wingers, is that women having sex outside of marriage especially is bad. They seem to believe people that are married don't have abortions or use birth control. They also believe women are second class citizens and should have no right to decide if her body is used to house the offspring of a mighty man.
Click to expand...

That particular poster is also 100% against mandated child support and any form of taxpayer-based public assistance :doh

OTOH, his political views also prevent him from not accepting the pro-choice position so he does come here and post things that are disrespectful to women...blaming them and their behavior since he is powerless to control their choices in life.
 
Last edited:
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

ajn678 said:
I fail to see what your point is in this issue. You seem to be complaining that women are having less abortions due to birth control. Then you complain that because people shifted only 6 percent in favor of pro-life positions it isn't enough. You then complain that our birth rates need to stay at extremely high levels that we as the United States cannot even continue to afford. You state respect for life, yet your party tends to only respect life that is middle class and white. I would believe your want to respect life if you attempted to respect the lives of poor, minorities that are born and alive instead of only looking to protect the dignity and rights of beings that are not born.
Click to expand...

I said nothing about birth rates needing to be high. What I have been saying is birth control only lowers birth rates which is not the goal here. We shouldn't strive to lower birth rates, but to decrease abortions by changing minds and improving lives. The six point shift happened almost entirely at the beginning of the century and has since only moved up one point. What we have seen outside of a few years is the number not move.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Henrin said:
It's a six point move since the start of the century. The average over more than a decade and a half since is 45% with barely any movement outside of a few years near 50% at the end of last decade. All of this means that the number of pro-life women has moved from forty to forty six percent. Considering that pro-life women do elect to abort these numbers do not represent respect for life.
Click to expand...

Your choice to demand that women remain pregnant against their will also does not represent respect for life.

A life is more than just breathing.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Henrin said:
I said nothing about birth rates needing to be high. What I have been saying is birth control only lowers birth rates which is not the goal here. We shouldn't strive to lower birth rates, but to decrease abortions by changing minds and improving lives. The six point shift happened almost entirely at the beginning of the century and has since only moved up one point. What we have seen outside of a few years is the number not move.
Click to expand...

You have been stating that birth rates should be high to improve life and continue as a species. While you are completely wrong that high birth rates=higher amounts of thriving, you have been stating this. We should be striving to lower unwanted pregnancies. Unwanted pregnancies are the main reasons that people choose to abort. Birth control lowers unwanted pregnancies which lower abortions. Therefore, as a pro-life person you should want as many people as possible to use birth control to prevent as many abortions as possible. The fact of the matter is that your beliefs aren't actually based on preventing abortions, its about preventing women from freely having sex without asking you who they have sex with. Abortions still can cause emotional and mental issues in women that have them. If we are able to remove the need for women to make a difficult decision by not in fact getting pregnant in the first place, why would someone complain about that? Because you simply want to punish sex, not what happens possibly after sex.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Henrin said:
It's a six point move since the start of the century. The average over more than a decade and a half since is 45% with barely any movement outside of a few years near 50% at the end of last decade. All of this means that the number of pro-life women has moved from forty to forty six percent. Considering that pro-life women do elect to abort these numbers do not represent respect for life.
Click to expand...

Perhaps they respect the life of their born children. Pregnancy can alter the ability for a woman to support herself and her born children (I was medically required to be off almost 6 months, if I had been living paycheck to paycheck in an iffy situation, I could have made my family destitute and/or homeless. Endangering the well being of myself and my family. Did you know most women that abort already have a child at home?

But then again, I believe the best thing would be to prevent the pregnancy in the first place.;)
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

I'm convinced Carly was brought into this election for the specific purpose of spreading disinformation.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Lursa said:
Er, no falsity in the population examples of China or India....population is a factor in the conditions of those countries.
Click to expand...

Again, it isn't population that caused growth in India and China. The largest factors are change in economic policy and industry growth. I don't know why this is your argument since they are not the norm.

Now, when are you providing the actual replacement number data for humans so we can determine what is the concern, if any, 'in reality?' And why you believe that groups of people will stop having children?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean by this.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Henrin said:
Again, it isn't population that caused growth in India and China. The largest factors are change in economic policy and industry growth. I don't know why this is your argument since they are not the norm.



I'm not sure what you mean by this.
Click to expand...

You can deny that population is a factor in the economies and social issues in China and India all you want, it doesnt change the facts that it is/was.

And you were asked more than once to provide the actual numbers needed for 'replacements' of the human race in order to maintain it. Where is that data? You kept bringing it up as if it were a concern, yet no data on the subject was provided, by you, to actual show if it is a concern or not.

People are not going to stop having sex and kids, so IMO, your drama was nothing but an attempt to create a reason for your personal views, rather than being substantiated by any data.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Lursa said:
You can deny that population is a factor in the economies and social issues in China and India all you want, it doesnt change the facts that it is/was.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it wasn't a factor, but just that it's not the driving force.

And you were asked more than once to provide the actual numbers needed for 'replacements' of the human race in order to maintain it. Where is that data? You kept bringing it up as if it were a concern, yet no data on the subject was provided, by you, to actual show if it is a concern or not.
Click to expand...

Replacement rates merely means enough to replace the current population.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Henrin said:
Replacement rates merely means enough to replace the current population.
Click to expand...

OK, so what makes you think it's necessary to replace 'the current population?' What makes that's the magical number? Our society in America is by no means economically 'ideal' now and you attempted earlier to dismiss immigration as a source of new people. What is the 'ideal' number?

Many of those countries do not allow or definitely have restrictions on abortion...so it's not likely the faucet providing immigrants will be shut off.

Let's see some numbers to support your concerns.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Henrin said:
I said nothing about birth rates needing to be high. What I have been saying is birth control only lowers birth rates which is not the goal here. We shouldn't strive to lower birth rates, but to decrease abortions by changing minds and improving lives. The six point shift happened almost entirely at the beginning of the century and has since only moved up one point. What we have seen outside of a few years is the number not move.
Click to expand...

Surely you jest...
"We shouldn't strive to lower the rate, but decrease to abortion by changing minds"
Click to expand...
Reading the above makes me cringe. I know of about "one" DP member who would agree with that. Guess who that might be?

Henrin, you never stop surprising with me with your opinions, many of which are beyond comprehension.

If every woman on the planet declared that they'll never have a child, or another child, EVER, I would support that 100%.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Henrin said:
If women weren't getting pregnant less I bet the number of abortions would around the same. Women's views towards abortion hasn't improved at all and I see no indication they are less likely to abort.

The left calls a lower reproduction due to birth control progress, but I consider it standing still.
Click to expand...
You would be wrong.


The rate of abortions has been going down, not just the numbers. In the 1980s there were about 30 women who had abortions , compared to every 100 who gave birth. In 2013 there were 21 women who had abortions , compared to every 100 who gave birth. And according to the CDC those numbers fell even more. There were 18 women who had abortions compared to every 100 who gave birth.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

minnie616 said:
You would be wrong.


The rate of abortions has been going down, not just the numbers. In the 1980s there were about 30 women who had abortions , compared to every 100 who gave birth. In 2013 there were 21 women who had abortions , compared to every 100 who gave birth. And according to the CDC those numbers fell even more. There were 18 women who had abortions compared to every 100 who gave birth.
Click to expand...

That's dishonest. The largest factors for the decrease is the increase in birth control use and a decrease in the availability of abortion. In 2013 40% of unintended pregnancies were aborted.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Henrin said:
That's dishonest. The largest factors for the decrease is the increase in birth control use and a decrease in availability of abortion.
Click to expand...

During the years 2008 and 2011 the abortion rate ( rate not numbers ) fell by 13 percent.
The number of abortion clinics only fell by 1 percent so yes you are off about that too.

Birth control has cut down on unwanted pregnancies but birth control has been available for years and birth control pills have been widely used since the 1960s.

Percentage of pregnancies by country:

Percentage of pregnancies aborted by country (listed by percentage)
 
Last edited:
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Lursa said:
I dont believe that's true, you are very aware of at least on poster on this forum that believes using them would be cause for receiving capital punishment.

However I agree that most pro-life do agree that birth control is a positive thing.

Fiorina's (false) claim and apparent stance on abortion however, still punishes women (& men even tho they often dont realize it in the beginning) when birth control, esp. condoms, fail.
Click to expand...

Only as long as no one knows about it. Virtually every effort at increasing use, and correct use, of contraception has been spear-headed by the pro-choice, and fought by the anti-choice and otherwise authoritarian conservative.

They think contraception is good in theory, but in practice it means people are having sex, and that tends to put a bug up their bum, because sluts or something. They seem to believe that if they just don't tell anyone, women will stop "being sluts" (i.e. having sex, like, ever, unless they want a child).

I don't honestly think the anti-BC people and the anti-choice are that far apart in practice, even if they are on paper.
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

Henrin said:
... In 2013 40% of unintended pregnancies were aborted.
Click to expand...

So you are making a case that 60 percent ( more than half of the woman ) with unintended pregnancies continued their pregnancies?

Do you have the link to back your statement up?
How many were wanted pregnancies but just mistimed?

How many were unwanted?
Do you have the numbers?
 
Re: Carly Fiorina incorrect that U.S. has a 'record number of abortions year after ye

minnie616 said:
You would be wrong.


The rate of abortions has been going down, not just the numbers. In the 1980s there were about 30 women who had abortions , compared to every 100 who gave birth. In 2013 there were 21 women who had abortions , compared to every 100 who gave birth. And according to the CDC those numbers fell even more. There were 18 women who had abortions compared to every 100 who gave birth.
Click to expand...

Exactly. By reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies we also reduce the number of those pregnancies that women feel they need to abort. Then you have people who want to have children having children, even if that lowers the number of births overall.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom